Discussion in 'Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk' started by Clint Eastwood, Feb 22, 2021.
Thank you for your consideration. Any other alternates from our side?
Guentzel for Forsberg would be robbing Peter to pay Paul but the Penguins are so desperately in need of a right-handed shot on the powerplay that it may be worth the slight downgrade at even strength. NSH probably would have to add though given Guentzel's sweetheart contract.
Pittsburgh just doesn't have the pieces to get him IMO. If we're trading Forsberg we're getting younger and we're certainly not adding anything to him.
Poulin and Legare interest me but...eh. What would Pittsburgh give up for Arvidsson?
Elliott Friedman reported on his 31 thoughts that multiple sources have told him that Toronto and Nashville are in discussions and that the Leafs have made an offer for Forsberg.
I'm going to assume it's a bigger deal then just for Forsberg.
Mikhail Abramov (C)
Filip Hallander (C)
B-/C+ Level Prospect (Kral, Kokkonen, Abruzzese)
Forsberg (10/15% Retained)
Abramov - 19 Years Old
In the '19/'20 Season Abramov posted 76 Points (35 Goals/41 Assists) in 63 Games with the Victoriaville Tigres of the QMJHL. A decent showing for the teams number one center, but not the most impressive statlines from a then 18 year old center in the Q.
What DOES make that statline incredibly impressive is that the next highest player on his team scored 41 Points in 1 Less Game. Thats 35 fewer points than Abramov. And did I mention that this player was also a DEFENCEMAN.
Now the unusually high number of goals makes a bit more sense, Abramov was pulling a Jack Eichel and just being a one man band out on the ice.
In the '20/'21 Season that was cancelled/postponed he was off to a good start again with 16 Points (5 Goals/11 Assists) in 13 games.
Hallander - 20 Years Old
Brought in through the Kapanen Trade, Hallander is a 20 Year old Center than is currently in his 3rd year in the SHL. Yes you heard that right, 3rd Year in the SHL at the age of 20!
What is even more impressive is that he has stayed very consistent with his points through all 3 of those years. In '18/'19 as a rookie he scored 21 Points (7 Goals/14 Assists) in 45 games, with 8 Points in 7(!) Games in the playoffs that year.
In '19/'20 his number of games was reduced to only 27 Games (I think injury related but im not too sure), but even then he was still able to get 14 Points (5 Goals/9 Assists).
So far in '20/'21 he has 20 Points (10 Goals/10 Assists) in 42 Games. Leafs scouts and fans alike have him growing into a great 2 way 2C in the near future. He lacks the pizzaz to really become a 1C, but his all around game means that he may become the perfect 2C.
What do you guys think? I really tried to make a deal that I think helps both teams, while considering eachothers needs. I know the preds dont need any defensive prospects anymore because they literally cant find room for the ones that are there now, but they do desperately need some center prospects behind Tomasino.
I'm trying to kill the leafs bias here of Bracco and a 2nd being our offer for every star player, so I hope I made this one fair.
Oh lord. If that's the case that pretty much confirms a blow up and the next couple years are gonna be rough.
Did you actually listen to that podcast or just take some Twitter rando’s recap as gospel?
I heard of no such offer when Friedman was discussing Nashville.
This is based upon a random Twitter poster. Those who have listened to the podcast denied this was said.
The Blues would be willing to offer a lot to go for it this year.
Other pieces available would be Dunn, any prospect not currently on the team, and Tyler Bozak for cap reasons. We’d ideally like him at 50%, but I don’t know what the price would be for that; a lot depends on who can afford to pay to take him during COVID (money, protocol, cap) and balancing that so he’s not a rental next year for Nashville. Maybe Nashville waits a year thinking they can get more of things (hopefully) get better. I wouldn’t bet on it, though.
How would you rank Abramov, Hallander, Sandin, Liljegren and Robertson?
I think think you've done a pretty good job at being unbiased, and unfortunately I think this kind of offer is likely to be the sort of thing we actually would get if we trade Forsberg.
Ideally we'd want an A+ Caulfield/Robertson type coming back, but I really don't know if teams would want to go for that. And since zero Preds fans actually want to trade Forsberg, we're all going to be asking for as much as we can. But every time a player is on the block, in the vast majority of instances they're traded for less than what fans say is a fair price. I have my doubts that we'll be any different.
I'd included POJ in the initial trade because he's a young defenseman with pedigree who has more than held his own in his initial look at the NHL level. If you re-ranked POJ vs. Poulin and Legare almost every Pens fan would have POJ as our top prospect. Top prospect in a cruddy pool, but still top prospect.
Having said that the Penguins don't have a knock-your-socks-off young player that you'd be looking for in this deal so I get it.
I'm not particularly interested in Arvidsson. Zucker and Kapanen haven't gotten it going because they are ultimately complimentary pieces and not stars - and Malkin isn't playing like a guy worth complimenting. Don't think Arvidsson would be better but I'd maybe do a change-o-scenery trade with Arvidsson for Kapanen straight up for Ss&Gs.
I just saw a chance to get ourselves another young-ish star in Forsberg which we need badly.
If we did POJ, Poulin, Zucker, 2022 1st would that get us closer for Forsberg?
A 1st from a team that's in the process of running away with the division (25OA at best).
Nothing from the pool that really hurts to give up (i.e. Robertson, Sandin, Amirov)
A borderline cap dump in this environment in Kerfoot
Nashville should be able to do better. Byram and that ilk is crazy talk (I'm talking about market value not what it would take to convince Nashville to move him in the absence of the internal motivation to do so), but a Forsberg trade would hurt somewhat.
I think that the biggest upside is that out of every prospect the leafs have that hasnt played at least one game in the NHL (Sandin, Lilj, Robertson), both Hallander and Abramov have the highest chances to become regular NHL Players. Their style is one that should translarte nicely to the NHL, with both of them being touted as having high intelligence and hockey IQ and both playing good 2-Way Games.
When you look at the bigger picture however, its clear that the better of these 2 prospects is Abramov. Don't get me wrong, I think Hallander will make the NHL at some point in his career no matter what and that I can see him probably being a successful 3C with a 2C Ceiling, but his offensive skills fall short of Abramovs.
With Abramov, you kind of have more of a lottery ticket, but if it pays off, you might be looking at a player that is better than Tomasino. His vision and hockey IQ is terrific for his age, and he has been working on his shot a lot. This is proven by the 35 goals he scored in 19/20 in the Q. His weaknesses are that he isnt the best skater in the world and at 6' 160lbs on CapFriendly, he isnt the biggest kid in the world either. But the good thing about both of those weaknesses are that they are probably the easiest skills to work on.
Any player with enough practice and dedication can get better at skating and once you get on an NHL Team, the professional strength coaches can do wonders to your body and help you add 10/20lbs of muscle in a single summer. Hockey IQ however is something that is much harder to learn, and is something that both these players are touted for having.
In my opinion, Abramov is probably the leafs 5th best prospect overall behing Sandin, Robertson, Liljegren and Amirov, but I could see him easily becoming the 2nd best if not the best player out of all 5 of these guys.
Hallander on the other hand is still in the top 10 prospects for the leafs, but his lack of a gamechanging wow factor is what pushes him out of that top 5.
Thanks man I really appreciate this. I know that when I first started here I was known for making some pretty awful proposals so now I'm trying to actually make proposals that make sense.
I dont disagree, I think Nashville asks for 1 or Robertson or Amirov instead.
I also think Nashville would retain more to get the most out of the deal. If they move Forsberg they dont need to worry about the cap next year.
Mikhail Abramov (C)
Rodion Amirov (LW)
Joey Anderson / Semyon Der-Arguchintsev
Forsberg (50% Retained)
Why is Kerfoot tossed into every trade proposal imaginable. Pile of crap that Leaf fans are ok with losing for Forsberg . Same thing over and over and over. Here , let me make a list of players I do not really like on my team and offer all of them for one stud.
Devils offer(actually realistic and not a bunch meh prospects) :
While I know what you mean by saying that a trade for Forsberg should hurt the team, I don't think he is worth that right now because of his contract.
Now, if Forsberg had even 1 more additional year on his contract, I would be more inclined to agree that it would take one of a teams top 3 prospects to get him, but with only 1 more year left after this, I dont think that he will fetch that.
Also, any team that trades for Forsberg also has to realize that is one more person that they have to protect in the upcoming expansion draft (unless theyre doing something close to a 1 for 1 trade instead of a trade for futures). Since getting Forsberg means that youre probably losing a more prominent player in the upcoming expansion draft, teams will be even more unlikely to give up their top prospects.
The Forsberg-Leafs rumour was debunked, but if Toronto wanted to add a massive piece like that, I could see a base deal of:
1st + Amirov + ??
Would likely spell the end of Nylander at the end of Forsberg's current deal, though. Absolutely love FF and think his size would mesh incredibly well with Tavares/Hyman on the 2nd line or with Matthews on the 1st. Cap is hard to make work, so NSH might need to take Kerfoot and flip him.
Robertson/Sandin are pretty close to untouchable, i'd imagine.
I would be fine with that, but I don't think that the preds would do 50% retention on it. Maybe more like 15/20%
1) There needs to be a roster player swap not only for filling a spot in the lineup, but for the cap to work properly so thats why Kerfoot is always added, he has the largest contract of any player thats not in a top role.
2) These prospects are not "meh prospects" Abramov is a Top 5 Prospect, along with Amirov. Hallander might not be top 5, but he is Top 10. Just because you don't like the leafs doesn't mean that their prospects are automatically shit.
Try to find another team that is willing to give up a 1st + 2 of their top 5 prospects plus a mid 6 player PLUS an additional B/C level prospect.
I say go big for 50% retention 1st+Amirov+Niemela+Kerfoot and add picks from there
I am one of the most vocal about the value of term on this site. I get it. That's why I think there are a group of prospects leaguewide off the table period, even if the need for Forsberg is there and that team is in the right stage of the competitive cycle. Beyond 10-15 guys, everything else is realistic. Different position, but Yandle might be a comp here given term and retention. The Coyotes got a 1st and Duclair, who at the time was just outside that group, as the heart of the return. Ultimately, a team's top prospects ≠ the league's top prospects.
The expansion draft is flat out not a concern for much of Toronto's competition. 7 good eligible forwards is a rarity. Carolina, using a local example, would be forced to expose Morgan Geekie if Forsberg were to be acquired. That's not going to effect their decision making at all.
He does have good value, however he has 1.75 years left on that contract and you do need to take that into consideration.
1st + good prospect imo.
If we did trade for him how much of the cap hit would we be responsible for?
For a team trading for Forsberg? Minimum 3M..max 6M lol
Forsberg this year: 3.9 mil left, 6 mil next year
Separate names with a comma.