Fights Per Game (2019 Dec 4)

[Tom Polakis]

Here's a plot I created of the number of fights per game each season since 2008-09. As recently as 2011, you'd see a fight every 2 games. This season, it's every 7 games.

I'm not here to provide commentary on it; just thought you all might be interested in seeing the trend.

Click to read more...

 

[Sheppy]

So sad.

There's so little emotion in todays game, it's kind of hard to watch. Also, hilarious how they pump up NHL rivalry night with clips full of fighting, hitting and the two teams go out and have a snoozer.

 

[txpd]

I am pretty sure that you are mistaken about the emotion. I see plenty of it. Its just not vented thru fighting as much as in the past. They don't fight in Europe and they don't fight in USHL and NCAA. Those players don't resort to fighting.

This was an interconference game. No rivalry here. No lack of emotion here.


This is another interconference game. This is started by Backstrom who takes exception to a crosscheck by Goudreau and plants him. This is pretty typical.


These examples. You don't expect that every night I hope. It wasn't like that in the past. Its just in the past you had entertainment fights that had nothing to do with the game. All the fights that need to be in hockey games are still in hockey games

 

[Sheppy]

So, two?

That's not a lot.

The Bruins played the Habs & Leafs for a total of 6 times this year so far, and legitimately nothing... Those are supposed to be rival teams.

 

[txpd]

So, two?

That's not a lot.

The Bruins played the Habs & Leafs for a total of 6 times this year so far, and legitimately nothing... Those are supposed to be rival teams.

Two that I wanted to post. You want me to post them all? The Habs and the Leafs are soft teams. They are not representative. The Bruins and the Capitals are heavy and mean. They are also not representative. But there are teams that fight a lot more than the Caps and B's.

My experience is that guys that want more fighting miss the fights for the sake of the fights. The Caps and the Penguins, Islanders, Flyers, Hurricanes are mean hockey games. I am sorry that your rivalries are suffering a bit but its not like that for all of us.

At the same time I don't feel cheated if there isn't a tilt in the game I am watching.

 

[Sheppy]

Two that I wanted to post. You want me to post them all? The Habs and the Leafs are soft teams. They are not representative. The Bruins and the Capitals are heavy and mean. They are also not representative. But there are teams that fight a lot more than the Caps and B's.

My experience is that guys that want more fighting miss the fights for the sake of the fights. The Caps and the Penguins, Islanders, Flyers, Hurricanes are mean hockey games. I am sorry that your rivalries are suffering a bit but its not like that for all of us.

At the same time I don't feel cheated if there isn't a tilt in the game I am watching.

The Capitals don't have one fighting major against any of those teams you've listed this year so far.

 

[txpd]

The Capitals don't have one fighting major against any of those teams you've listed this year so far.

you do understand that's 3 games total including the 2nd and 3rd games of the season on back to back nights and the 2nd and 3rd games in 4 nights.

 

[Sheppy]

you do understand that's 3 games total including the 2nd and 3rd games of the season on back to back nights and the 2nd and 3rd games in 4 nights.

No. I did not understand that, I didn't look into what dates the games were on, who were on the rosters and what the scenario was, no.

I don't enjoy the intensity of todays game, you do, that's fine. To each their own.

 

[txpd]

No. I did not understand that, I didn't look into what dates the games were on, who were on the rosters and what the scenario was, no.

I don't enjoy the intensity of todays game, you do, that's fine. To each their own.

Its funny. When I was a kid most of the Washington Capitals including the coach(gm of nba team and Danny Ferry) lived in my neighborhood. The 1970s. Even then those guys didn't like fighting for the sake of entertaining people. They wanted to play hockey.

I am not sure how you quantify intensity but it appears that you use fighting as a prime indicator. That's probably a mistake. Tom Wilson plays in all situations for the Capitals and is one of their top players. The team doesn't want him sitting for 5 mins at a time for fighting some plug. You disagree with that?

I rate the intensity in more ways than fighting. Hitting and speed and swarm. Is intensity. After the whistle scrums don't show up on the score sheet either. I don't need those old Donald Brashaer George LaRaque days anymore. Do you?

 

[Sheppy]

Its funny. When I was a kid most of the Washington Capitals including the coach(gm of nba team and Danny Ferry) lived in my neighborhood. The 1970s. Even then those guys didn't like fighting for the sake of entertaining people. They wanted to play hockey.

I am not sure how you quantify intensity but it appears that you use fighting as a prime indicator. That's probably a mistake. Tom Wilson plays in all situations for the Capitals and is one of their top players. The team doesn't want him sitting for 5 mins at a time for fighting some plug. You disagree with that?

I rate the intensity in more ways than fighting. Hitting and speed and swarm. Is intensity. After the whistle scrums don't show up on the score sheet either. I don't need those old Donald Brashaer George LaRaque days anymore. Do you?

I'm not arguing for enforcers, I'm saying that the game right now lacks intensity, hatred and pure rivalries. At least with what I see. I see several games where there's a greasy hit, and instead of players getting their hands dirty, they're staring palms up looking at a ref instead of forcing an issue with the opposing team.

Years ago, Bruins and Habs would result in some serious, serious action, and sometimes not even with "fighters" - Now, its like watching two teams with no history and no dislike for each other. Bruins and Leafs are the same thing, but you can basically burn the entire rosters houses down and they wouldn't say a mean word to you.

Maybe It's just me, I don't know.

 

[txpd]

I'm not arguing for enforcers, I'm saying that the game right now lacks intensity, hatred and pure rivalries. At least with what I see. I see several games where there's a greasy hit, and instead of players getting their hands dirty, they're staring palms up looking at a ref instead of forcing an issue with the opposing team.

Years ago, Bruins and Habs would result in some serious, serious action, and sometimes not even with "fighters" - Now, its like watching two teams with no history and no dislike for each other. Bruins and Leafs are the same thing, but you can basically burn the entire rosters houses down and they wouldn't say a mean word to you.

Maybe It's just me, I don't know.

Lets set the code aside for a moment. How do you quantify intensity? What is a greasy hit? What do you mean by getting their hands dirty? What do you mean by forcing an issue? Please be specific and descriptive.

Example....is this greasy? should he have been jumped for the hit?

 

[Sheppy]

Lets set the code aside for a moment. How do you quantify intensity? What is a greasy hit? What do you mean by getting their hands dirty? What do you mean by forcing an issue? Please be specific and descriptive.

Example....is this greasy? should he have been jumped for the hit?

I have discussed this topic to no end.

I just don’t see it anymore, outside of a few games here and there, it’s just emotionless.

 

[Fenian24]

I'm not arguing for enforcers, I'm saying that the game right now lacks intensity, hatred and pure rivalries. At least with what I see. I see several games where there's a greasy hit, and instead of players getting their hands dirty, they're staring palms up looking at a ref instead of forcing an issue with the opposing team.

Years ago, Bruins and Habs would result in some serious, serious action, and sometimes not even with "fighters" - Now, its like watching two teams with no history and no dislike for each other. Bruins and Leafs are the same thing, but you can basically burn the entire rosters houses down and they wouldn't say a mean word to you.

Maybe It's just me, I don't know.

Ain't you, intensity is lacking badly. Maybe it's the money, maybe it's the lack of divisional match ups during the regular season, maybe it's the overall lack of physicality, too many refs on the ice, too many eyes in the sky but their is very little intensity in most games, where in the "old" days if you really hated the guy lined up next to you you would fight him.

Fights based off hits, cheap shots, trash talk are the fights I miss. Tie Domi vs Rob Ray 20 times for no real reason is not physical hockey, it's a sideshow that has run it's race and is not missed. Milan Lucic vs Tom Wilson because they really dislike each other or Evander Kane having to back up his mouth are sadly missing and a part that helped make hockey the greatest game. I can't say it is anymore.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I think the data has to be taken in context of staged fighting going away, and also in the context of how many scrums are quickly tied up by linesmen before they can escalate.

My impression is that the number of real, emotional fights actually hasn't dropped as much as the data suggests. A lot of what was going on 10 years ago was guys randomly dropping the gloves out-of-context, or scrums carrying on and on until someone finally dropped the gloves. On the other side of the coin, now we have scrums where guys are right on the verge of a fight when the linesmen come screaming in to pull everyone apart. That's all going to show up in the data.

 

[Big Phil]

This is another interconference game. This is started by Backstrom who takes exception to a crosscheck by Goudreau and plants him. This is pretty typical.


These examples. You don't expect that every night I hope. It wasn't like that in the past. Its just in the past you had entertainment fights that had nothing to do with the game. All the fights that need to be in hockey games are still in hockey games

Oh wow, I checked the date on that game, February 1st, 2019. How did I not know about this game? I looked up the boxscore and its funny because there was just two fighting majors and an interference call. Yeah, MUCH more than that. See, that's what I miss. Those two teams you could tell were angry. There is no anger anymore. That sort of line brawl was something you saw not every game of course 20-30 years ago but 3, 4 times a week anyway. Bottom line is, it wasn't rare. Now? Well, there might still be some angry teams out there but since there are so many soft ones you just see that level of emotion so much less. I can only imagine what will happen after the hugfest of complaining about the coaches looking at the players the wrong way in the past will effect the emotion on the ice.

Look, I'm a Leafs fan so we see no anger at all. Not when they lose, not when their player gets hit and we certainly don't see them hit either. Jake Muzzin and Toews dropped the mitts this year after a questionable hit, but that's it. It isn't just the fighting, it is the anger attached to it. Scrums - and I mean TRUE scrums - are so few and far between.

Sure there were staged fights, but there was also a lot of this. Goalies fights didn't happen a lot, but they weren't the way of the dodo bird either. You'd see one a month, at least. Now? Heck, when was the last time we saw a goalie mad? There are no Hextalls or Smiths anymore. And by the way, no one and I mean no one was against staged fights until the media told them they ought to be. People knew they had their purpose too whether it was to do it for the sake of policing or to wake up your team. Everyone's shirts have gotten into a knot. But that game you posted, wow, now THAT is hockey. We miss that. And did the fans like it? Well, just watch the video and tell me for yourself.

 

[txpd]

Oh wow, I checked the date on that game, February 1st, 2019. How did I not know about this game? I looked up the boxscore and its funny because there was just two fighting majors and an interference call. Yeah, MUCH more than that. See, that's what I miss. Those two teams you could tell were angry. There is no anger anymore. That sort of line brawl was something you saw not every game of course 20-30 years ago but 3, 4 times a week anyway. Bottom line is, it wasn't rare. Now? Well, there might still be some angry teams out there but since there are so many soft ones you just see that level of emotion so much less. I can only imagine what will happen after the hugfest of complaining about the coaches looking at the players the wrong way in the past will effect the emotion on the ice.

Look, I'm a Leafs fan so we see no anger at all. Not when they lose, not when their player gets hit and we certainly don't see them hit either. Jake Muzzin and Toews dropped the mitts this year after a questionable hit, but that's it. It isn't just the fighting, it is the anger attached to it. Scrums - and I mean TRUE scrums - are so few and far between.

Sure there were staged fights, but there was also a lot of this. Goalies fights didn't happen a lot, but they weren't the way of the dodo bird either. You'd see one a month, at least. Now? Heck, when was the last time we saw a goalie mad? There are no Hextalls or Smiths anymore. And by the way, no one and I mean no one was against staged fights until the media told them they ought to be. People knew they had their purpose too whether it was to do it for the sake of policing or to wake up your team. Everyone's shirts have gotten into a knot. But that game you posted, wow, now THAT is hockey. We miss that. And did the fans like it? Well, just watch the video and tell me for yourself.

I am sure you know best but ive been watching hockey a good long time. Given a choice between the Guy LaFluer Habs and the Broad St Bullies, I went with Montreal every time.

And I guess I am a no one but I used to roll my eyes and go to the bathroom or kitchen when two goons drop em for no reason.

 

[Big Phil]

I am sure you know best but ive been watching hockey a good long time. Given a choice between the Guy LaFluer Habs and the Broad St Bullies, I went with Montreal every time.

And I guess I am a no one but I used to roll my eyes and go to the bathroom or kitchen when two goons drop em for no reason.

You'd be in the extreme minority for that one, yeah. Even in 2019 you still would be. By the way, two goons fighting for "nothing" didn't happen the way the sports media wants you to think it did. You never know what was going on the ice prior to that, if a star player had a questionable hit earlier in the period or whatever. You have just been trained over the last decade to not like so-called "staged fights".

By the way, the Flyers were still damn talented back then. I think the Habs were the "good guys" too back then but hockey had something that it needs so desperately today.............a villain. It's been a while. The Habs weren't softies either. Watch some of the brawls they got into back in the 1970s, they weren't the modern Habs, they were actually tough too.

Hockey needs a villain again. The Flyers were that villain. NFL has the Patriots/Cowboys, NBA has Lebron and even baseball has the Yankees. Try to think about what hockey has. I can't either, and it needs it.

 

[txpd]

You'd be in the extreme minority for that one, yeah. Even in 2019 you still would be. By the way, two goons fighting for "nothing" didn't happen the way the sports media wants you to think it did. You never know what was going on the ice prior to that, if a star player had a questionable hit earlier in the period or whatever. You have just been trained over the last decade to not like so-called "staged fights".

By the way, the Flyers were still damn talented back then. I think the Habs were the "good guys" too back then but hockey had something that it needs so desperately today.............a villain. It's been a while. The Habs weren't softies either. Watch some of the brawls they got into back in the 1970s, they weren't the modern Habs, they were actually tough too.

Hockey needs a villain again. The Flyers were that villain. NFL has the Patriots/Cowboys, NBA has Lebron and even baseball has the Yankees. Try to think about what hockey has. I can't either, and it needs it.

I wouldn't have been in the extreme minority. Most of my friends at the time felt the same way. BTW...I was in the NHL hockey media as a high school student and I had access to people in the league. I wasn't an outlier.

The NHL doesn't have villians? Really?

 

[Big Phil]

I wouldn't have been in the extreme minority. Most of my friends at the time felt the same way. BTW...I was in the NHL hockey media as a high school student and I had access to people in the league. I wasn't an outlier.

The NHL doesn't have villians? Really?

No, not like they used to. The NHL is terrible at promoting rivalries. They have built such a structured game on and off the ice over the years and polished everything to the point where no player has any personality anymore, and even if they did just ask Jordan Binnington the level people will go to find old Twitter posts from years ago. It is pathetic but the media has created this monster.

Hockey was a lot more fun when they let things go and let it happen naturally. Sportsnet had an article on Facebook asking if Joe Thornton should be suspended because he punched a goalie the other day. It was a bloody roughing penalty the guy got. I mean, seriously? Kadri wouldn't be considered a league wide villain. Marchand maybe, but he is an abberation, not a trend. There almost used to be someone on every team like him that you loved to hate.

How far do you go back? Because anyone that watched hockey even as recent as the 1990s can remember when players were allowed to have more of a personality.

 

[cliffclaven]

There is, with VERY few exceptions, no intensity anymore. Rivalries and intense games came from big and or questionable hits, flat out cheap shots, or players that genuinely hated each other. Any cheap shot now costs you thousands in suspensions, and any big hit results in a pp for the other team because the hitters jersey sleeve messed up the other guys hair with “incidental head contact.”

Add to that, the cost of games for regular fans, and the lower bowls full of corporate shills on their phones, along with a bunch of robot players? You get the sanitized no-hit shinny games that are the norm now. There were actually two good games last night. Chi/bos and wsh/Ana... and there was a reason for that. Emotion.

 

[tarheelhockey]

There is, with VERY few exceptions, no intensity anymore. Rivalries and intense games came from big and or questionable hits, flat out cheap shots, or players that genuinely hated each other. Any cheap shot now costs you thousands in suspensions, and any big hit results in a pp for the other team because the hitters jersey sleeve messed up the other guys hair with “incidental head contact.”

Add to that, the cost of games for regular fans, and the lower bowls full of corporate shills on their phones, along with a bunch of robot players? You get the sanitized no-hit shinny games that are the norm now. There were actually two good games last night. Chi/bos and wsh/Ana... and there was a reason for that. Emotion.

So basically you're mad that people don't deliberately injure themselves and others for a marginal difference in your amusement?

Because I remember plenty of boring games back then, and I've seen plenty of great games lately. The difference in entertainment value between then and now is not worth a bunch of cheap-shotting trash and purposeless brawling. I'd FAR rather have actual high-quality hockey being played cleanly by players who are healthy and able to show off their talents, occasionally punctuated by fights that come from actual conflict. As it stands, we still have plenty of non-fight scrums that dial up the intensity without creating a yard sale on the ice.