Ference/Stempniak fight

tarheelhockey

Offside Review Specialist
Feb 12, 2010
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Like or it or absolutely hate it, why have the instigator penalty at all if they aren't going to call it on obvious cases like this?

I find myself asking this at least a couple of times a season. I don't love the instigator penalty, but I can see how it would be needed in a case like this. But then they turn around and refuse to call it, so... why even have it on the books in the first place? It makes no sense to me, from either a pro-fighting or an anti-fighting perspective.
 

Paper

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Nov 4, 2009
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I guess I overreacted, figured he'd be in the hospital as his face was completely destroyed and he appeared to be spitting out teeth. Regardless, the point stands. Is a 2 minute penalty an appropriate punishment for beating the **** out of a guy who is doing everything in his power not to fight? It's intentionally injuring someone in the most intentional way possible, how is this considered WAY less bad than a dirty hit?

He lost a tooth and didn't miss a shift, he's a hockey player.

Stempniak wanted to follow the play but when it was obvious Ference wasn't going to let up he dropped his gloves. Should have been an instigator (I mean if they are going to have that as a rule...), roughing, and a fight at worst. Give the Flames a 4 minute PP and that's fine. Anyone remember that Bourque 9 minute PK?

Assault charges, jail time and public execution might be going overboard a tad.
 

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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He lost a tooth and didn't miss a shift, he's a hockey player.

Stempniak wanted to follow the play but when it was obvious Ference wasn't going to let up he dropped his gloves. Should have been an instigator (I mean if they are going to have that as a rule...), roughing, and a fight. Give the Flames a 4 minute PP and that's fine. Anyone remember that Bourque 9 minute PK?

Assault charges, jail time and public execution might be going overboard a tad.
And now who's exaggerating :) It would be assault outside of hockey, as would many hockey plays, nobody was really suggesting the police should be involved.

I DO think, however, that if you pound on a guy who is clearly trying to avoid a fight, that's intent to injure and not something that should be a part of hockey. You are really twisting what happened with your description, Stempniak clearly did not want to go at all, he was trying hard to get away but simply couldn't, he only dropped his gloves because he was being absolutely forced to defend himself. A very clear intent to injure hit to the head would be a significant suspension, something like this Ference beatdown should be no different IMO. I don't mind fighting at all when both guys are into it, but something like this I find disgusting.
 

Paper

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Nov 4, 2009
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And now who's exaggerating :) It would be assault outside of hockey, as would many hockey plays, nobody was really suggesting the police should be involved.

So is hitting, so don't even bother bringing anything like that up. No body cares what it would be if they weren't playing hockey because they were playing hockey.
 

Kingspiracy

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Nov 13, 2006
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I thought it was a pretty classless move by Ference, it was a clean hit and a complete over reaction . I'd expect some sort of retaliation from the Calgary players.
 

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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So is hitting, so don't even bother bringing anything like that up. No body cares what it would be if they weren't playing hockey because they were playing hockey.
This isn't much like hitting though. Hitting has a clear role in the game, it's used to separate players from the puck. It's completely accepted. Fighting is accepted when both players consent. However, other plays can cross the line. You don't have a full licence to violence on the ice, McSorley was convicted of assault for his stick to the head on Brashear. Read the thread, nobody actually said that Ference should be charged here, but this was clearly a play that was at least somewhat walking the line between "that's just normal hockey violence" and "that's a violent assault outside of what's generally accepted in hockey."

It won't be a suspension, but I think "plays" like this should be treated just like dirty hits to the head. It's an intent to injure play that shouldn't be in the game.
 

Duffman955

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Mar 4, 2010
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Well, he got an instigator, and it wasn't really a mugging. Stempniak barely ate any punches.
 

Paper

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Nov 4, 2009
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This isn't much like hitting though. Hitting has a clear role in the game, it's used to separate players from the puck. It's completely accepted. Fighting is accepted when both players consent. However, other plays can cross the line. You don't have a full licence to violence on the ice, McSorley was convicted of assault for his stick to the head on Brashear. Read the thread, nobody actually said that Ference should be charged here, but this was clearly a play that was at least somewhat walking the line between "that's just normal hockey violence" and "that's a violent assault outside of what's accepted in hockey."

I did, and there was a lot of terrible posts like this
Ponder said:
This would definitely be assault if it wasn't in a hockey rink, possibly aggravated assault. Now, I'm not saying Ference should go to jail, but this was brutal and disgusting, he just decided to hospitalize Stempniak, and did so.

It should have been an instigation penalty, but outside of that right now our thoughts and prayers should be with Stempniak, hopefully he recovers from his near death experience.
 

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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I did, and there was a lot of terrible posts like this


It should have been an instigation penalty, but outside of that right now our thoughts and prayers should be with Stempniak, hopefully he recovers from his near death experience.
I was obviously wrong about how injured Stempniak was, but it looked pretty bad at first. I clearly say that I don't think this is a legal matter, but I do find it disgusting. I don't see why there should be no punishment for this, it's really no different in my mind than hunting a guy down and delivering an elbow to the head.
 

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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There is, it's called an instigator penalty and it was unfortunately not called but miscalls happen.
It's just a minor penalty though (plus the standard "take a little timeout, but your team isn't down a man" fighting penalties). Again, my point is that I don't see how forcing a fight on a guy who clearly doesn't want to fight, then beating the **** out of him is a minor penalty with no suspension and no game misconduct, while a hit to the head gets you a major penalty, a game misconduct, and generally a 2+ game suspension. Consensual fights are fine with me, but the fact that you can just beat the **** out of someone who doesn't want to fight at all, and get only a minor penalty, is pretty nuts.
 

TheGooooch

Registered User
Mar 29, 2008
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That was just a joke. Ference is a nutcase who can't handle getting a good hit laid on him. Was that a C I saw on his chest? No wonder the oilers are garbage
 

Paper

Registered User
Nov 4, 2009
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Stempniak threw down his gloves. The hyperbole of his injury from being on the IR, hospitalized and now beat the living **** out of him needs to end.

He lost a tooth, maybe from going head first into the boards and nothing to do with the fight, but the fight was far from brutal. Obviously Stempniak would have preferred not to fight, but he dropped the gloves nonetheless and got punched in the face like every other hockey player who has thrown down their gloves. No one forced him to fight (he could have turtled if he didn't have pride) but Ference instigated it and let up when the fight was done.

Much more vicious crosschecks and slashes happen nearly ever game.
 

ponder

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Jul 11, 2007
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Stempniak threw down his gloves. The hyperbole of his injury from being on the IR, hospitalized and now beat the living **** out of him needs to end.

He lost a tooth, maybe from going head first into the boards and nothing to do with the fight, but the fight was far from brutal. Obviously Stempniak would have preferred not to fight, but he dropped the gloves nonetheless and got punched in the face like every other hockey player who has thrown down their gloves. No one forced him to fight but Ference instigated it.

Much more vicious crosschecks and slashes happen nearly ever game.
He was completely forced to fight, he was clearly trying to get away from Ference and dropped the gloves only when he couldn't. This was not a "cool, let's go" fight, this was Ference beating down on player who was trying to get away.

Heading out for the night, so that's all from me for now, but I'll reiterate that pounding on a player who clearly does not want to fight should be treated no differently than other attempt to injure plays like intentional elbows to the head.
 

Paper

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Nov 4, 2009
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He was completely forced to fight, he was clearly trying to get away from Ference and dropped the gloves only when he couldn't. This was not a "cool, let's go" fight, this was Ference beating down on player who was trying to get away.

Heading out for the night, so that's all from me for now, but I'll reiterate that pounding on a player who clearly does not want to fight should be treated no differently than other attempt to injure plays like intentional elbows to the head.
He could have turtled or ran away like Kessel or wait for the refs to save him. He didn't because Stempniak isn't a *****, he threw down his gloves and fought. Reiterate it should have been an instigated penalty maybe on top of a roughing but that's it.
 

Bi Coastal Bawse*

Guest
That was just a joke. Ference is a nutcase who can't handle getting a good hit laid on him. Was that a C I saw on his chest? No wonder the oilers are garbage

If you only knew what you were talking about
 

Polo*

Guest
He could have turtled or ran away like Kessel or wait for the refs to save him. He didn't because Stempniak isn't a *****, he threw down his gloves and fought. Reiterate it should have been an instigated penalty maybe on top of a roughing but that's it.

Not sure why you have to take a dig at the leafs.

btw there is a difference between andrew ference and john scott...just a little.
 

Paper

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Nov 4, 2009
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Not sure why you have to take a dig at the leafs.

btw there is a difference between andrew ference and john scott...just a little.

The hell? There was no dig at all, Kessel ran from a fight he didn't want to fight. Stempniak didn't want to. That's all. Don't read into.

Of course Stempniak running away from Ference would be a ***** move and Stempniak is far from one.
 

Polo*

Guest
The hell? There was no dig at all, Kessel ran from a fight he didn't want to fight. Stempniak didn't want to. That's all. Don't read into.

Of course Stempniak running away from Ference would be a ***** move and Stempniak is far from one.

Ok if you werent taking a shot at the leafs by calling Kessel a *****....:amazed:

I have a feeling if scott went after stemps...hed try to get the **** outta there. Like I said ference and scott are completely different...so the situations are not alike
 

Paper

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Nov 4, 2009
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Ok if you werent taking a shot at the leafs by calling Kessel a *****....:amazed:

I have a feeling if scott went after stemps...hed try to get the **** outta there. Like I said ference and scott are completely different...so the situations are not alike

Never called anyone a *****. Said that Stempniak wasn't a ***** for fighting Ference. Like you said, big difference between Scott and Ference.

Take that persecution complex elsewhere.
 

Chain Attack

Registered User
Aug 15, 2006
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I guess I overreacted, figured he'd be in the hospital as his face was completely destroyed and he appeared to be spitting out teeth. Regardless, the point stands. Is a 2 minute penalty an appropriate punishment for beating the **** out of a guy who is doing everything in his power not to fight? It's intentionally injuring someone in the most intentional way possible, how is this considered WAY less bad than a dirty hit?

You did it again.
 

Polo*

Guest
Never called anyone a *****. Said that Stempniak wasn't a ***** for fighting Ference. Like you said, big difference between Scott and Ference.

Take that persecution complex elsewhere.

You responded to a leaf fan with this.

He could have turtled or ran away like Kessel or wait for the refs to save him. He didn't because Stempniak isn't a *****

Stop playing mr innocent.
 

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