Feed back on Marc Staal...

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pld459666

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Seph, not arguing what you saw

Seph said:
I saw Staal play in a couple Rangers preseason games. He definitely had the skills to play in the NHL. But at the time, his decision making still needed work. He looked over anxious, was rushing decisions and went out of position to make hits. It may well have just been nerves, as he was fresh out of the draft and already playing against NHL level competition. But at the time, I didn't think he was ready and would benefit more from playing the season in juniors. I don't know how much he's progressed over the season in that regard, though. But I think there's a good chance he would benefit most from playing another season in juniors next year. Not that he couldn't play in the NHL, but he'd be a better player in the longrun if he waited another season.

But the Rangers saw somethign different because he was one of the last cuts and they were really thinking about breaking camp with this kid on the roster.

Hie play during preseason was THE reason for the Rangers signing him to a pro contract, something they were under no pressure to do at all.

In fact, if the Rangers hadn't doled out money to Malik and Roszival, Staal could still be with the Rangers, but since the numbers game (age, and salary) played against him, sending him back to his Jr. team was the best option.

In fact there's a nice article on HF where he states the confidence he gained in being with the Rangers for so long has really helped him this year.

Again, not arguing with what you saw, but the reports and what I remember personally differ a bit.
 

David A. Rainer

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Pizza said:
That is an interesting idea actually.

But not everyone wants to be uprooted from their family and friends to play in a strange land with a different language and culture. Its not unheard of (see Brady Murray), but I would think very few players would be willing to do this.

Yes, russian and swede players must do this to come to NA, but they do so usually because they have their eyes on the NHL. The only thing Staal would have an eye on would be coming back to reach the NHL. That could create melancholy in the player and possibly end up doing much worse for his development.
 

pld459666

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I agree

Dempsey said:
Not gonna happen.

there's waiver issues with bringing a player back from an overseas league and I don't believe that age has anything to do with this set of waivers.

Keep him with the Rangers and "request" that he take a "conditioning assignment" in Hartford next year.

I think that even at 19, a player cannot be assigned to the AHL on a full time basis, but can accept an conditioning gig and the team can only ask him to do that twice in a season.

Still, I think that the safe bet would be to let him go back and have him work on specific aspects of his game. A player in that position can really work on the leadership aspects of the game, which can only benefit him anf the Rangers
 

TheRedressor

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Lets see what he can do at the end of the season in either Hartford or NY. Hopefully a playoff run with either team will benefit him. Then let him start the season with the Rangers for the first 9 games and see how he does
 

Pizza

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David A. Rainer said:
But not everyone wants to be uprooted from their family and friends to play in a strange land with a different language and culture. Its not unheard of (see Brady Murray), but I would think very few players would be willing to do this.

Yes, russian and swede players must do this to come to NA, but they do so usually because they have their eyes on the NHL. The only thing Staal would have an eye on would be coming back to reach the NHL. That could create melancholy in the player and possibly end up doing much worse for his development.

I agree with you. Just the thought of a N/A kid going the other way was interestng to me. I'd be curious to see how he'd do across the pond playing at a higher level. But as someone else pointed out, it most likely would never happen.
 

David A. Rainer

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Pizza said:
I agree with you. Just the thought of a N/A kid going the other way was interestng to me. I'd be curious to see how he'd do across the pond playing at a higher level. But as someone else pointed out, it most likely would never happen.

Brady Murray of the Kings did it. He left college early to go play in the Swiss league. I don't know of any major junior kids that left to go to europe though.
 

Seph

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pld459666 said:
But the Rangers saw somethign different because he was one of the last cuts and they were really thinking about breaking camp with this kid on the roster.

Hie play during preseason was THE reason for the Rangers signing him to a pro contract, something they were under no pressure to do at all.

In fact, if the Rangers hadn't doled out money to Malik and Roszival, Staal could still be with the Rangers, but since the numbers game (age, and salary) played against him, sending him back to his Jr. team was the best option.

In fact there's a nice article on HF where he states the confidence he gained in being with the Rangers for so long has really helped him this year.

Again, not arguing with what you saw, but the reports and what I remember personally differ a bit.
Rangers did the same thing with Blackburn, didn't mean it was the best course of action. Call it perhaps a difference in philosophy between myself and the Rangers, but I think they have a tendency to rush prospects. Despite being an Islanders fan and enjoying watching the Rangers fail (not this year, obviously :( ) I was glad to see they didn't do it with Staal.

Like I said, I think he has all the tools to play in the NHL now, but he'd be better served seeing more icetime and improving decision making. This is of course one man's opinion, so take it for what it's worth.
 

Pizza

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I think the Rangers are showing that they may have turned a corner on the "rushing the player before he is ready" issue. That is the key to this whole thing really. The other is that right now their Dmen are playing very well. If they can continue to play as well or maybe even better than they have been, there will be no reason to give Staal a spot unless he just absolutely forces the issue. Either way it's a very nice position to be in. The bottom line is that I trust the coaches and the execs to make the right decision when the time comes.
 

Thirty One

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pld459666 said:
But the Rangers saw somethign different because he was one of the last cuts and they were really thinking about breaking camp with this kid on the roster.

Hie play during preseason was THE reason for the Rangers signing him to a pro contract, something they were under no pressure to do at all.

In fact, if the Rangers hadn't doled out money to Malik and Roszival, Staal could still be with the Rangers, but since the numbers game (age, and salary) played against him, sending him back to his Jr. team was the best option.
he played one preseason game, he was cut before Purinton, Pöck, Lampman, Grenier, and Rullier

I don't think they were really entertaining the thought of him playing in the NHL this year
 

Levitate

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he played one preseason game, he was cut before Purinton, Pöck, Lampman, Grenier, and Rullier

I don't think they were really entertaining the thought of him playing in the NHL this year

i think they wanted to see how he could handle NHL paced action. i thought he did pretty well in what i saw, but he did take several penalties too.

really we're just gonna have to wait and see how he does in training camp next year. i think he certainly has a chance to make the rangers...but if they're not completely comfortable with him playing then they probably won't keep him up
 

littleguybigstik

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The rangers wont keep him in junior next year. He is too good and not challenged. He is going to be another superstar. Really smart positionally will be the difference between staal and the rest of the dmen in nyr or most nhl teams. Rangers asked him to increase his offense, or develop his offensive game while maintaining his defensvie prowness. He has done that with ease. Virtually ppg, plus 6, which is down from last year but his mpg are up immensely. He plays every situation he can in sudbury. I think he would be over ppg if he had someone to play with or outlet to in sudbury. With the rangers i think he can be an impact player next year. Dont think he will take the nhl like phaneuf did this year but will challenge for the calder.
 

Thirty One

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Levitate said:
i think they wanted to see how he could handle NHL paced action. i thought he did pretty well in what i saw, but he did take several penalties too.
I thought he did well too, and most of those penalties wouldn't be called today
 

Hunter Gathers

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Seph said:
Rangers did the same thing with Blackburn, didn't mean it was the best course of action. Call it perhaps a difference in philosophy between myself and the Rangers, but I think they have a tendency to rush prospects. Despite being an Islanders fan and enjoying watching the Rangers fail (not this year, obviously :( ) I was glad to see they didn't do it with Staal.

Like I said, I think he has all the tools to play in the NHL now, but he'd be better served seeing more icetime and improving decision making. This is of course one man's opinion, so take it for what it's worth.

Except Blackburn wasn't rushed and I don't know why anyone in their right mind would think that. Blackburn playing in the NHL was by far the "best course of action".
 

Ghost of jas

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Seph said:
Rangers did the same thing with Blackburn, didn't mean it was the best course of action. Call it perhaps a difference in philosophy between myself and the Rangers, but I think they have a tendency to rush prospects. Despite being an Islanders fan and enjoying watching the Rangers fail (not this year, obviously :( ) I was glad to see they didn't do it with Staal.

Like I said, I think he has all the tools to play in the NHL now, but he'd be better served seeing more icetime and improving decision making. This is of course one man's opinion, so take it for what it's worth.


Actually, Blackburn never went back to juniors after being drafted. Whereas, Staal, in spite of a very good camp, has gone bacvk to juniors to fill out his game. So, I think the two cases are not similar.
 

Seph

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Jon Prescription said:
Except Blackburn wasn't rushed and I don't know why anyone in their right mind would think that. Blackburn playing in the NHL was by far the "best course of action".
Difference of opinion then. I think it stalled his development. Sadly, we'll of course never know now. Don't get me wrong, I think the Islanders were in the same boat of continually rushing prospects and stalling their development. For example: Connolly, Pyatt, even Dipietro, were all being played in the NHL at way too young an age and weren't ready for it. Because of that, they have taken longer routes in their development than many players brought along at a slower rate. They would all have been better served getting top minutes at lower levels, IMO.

jas said:
Actually, Blackburn never went back to juniors after being drafted. Whereas, Staal, in spite of a very good camp, has gone bacvk to juniors to fill out his game. So, I think the two cases are not similar.
That was more my point. I feel the Rangers made the right decision with Staal, but the wrong decision with Blackburn. I can't say definitely if another year in juniors for Staal would be the best course, but it could well be. I have not watched him play since the preseason, so I can't really give much of an opinion on whether or not he's ready. I was responding to a poster who said the Rangers felt he was ready last year, and it was just numbers that kept him down. I simply said they thought Blackburn was ready too, but that didn't necessarily mean he was.

Often we've seen guys who seem completely ready in juniors come in too soon and it has effects on how they develop. Take Bouwmeester and Pitkanen, for example. Bouwmeester was rushed and has developed slower, Pitkanen was brought along slowly and has developed much faster. Defensemen in particular seem to benefit from spending additional time at lower levels where they can get top minutes to work on decision making. If the Rangers do have him in the NHL next year, at least he'll be on a stronger team which will prevent him from having to deal with too much pressure on his shoulders at too young an age. And don't think any of this means I think any less of Staal as a prospect, even Phaneuf spent two years after his draft in juniors. It's worked out pretty well for him.
 

slumpy43

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I thought the age limit to play in the AHL was 20? So why is Voloshenko not 20 and playing in that league?
 

Skroob*

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David A. Rainer said:
But not everyone wants to be uprooted from their family and friends to play in a strange land with a different language and culture.

I've always disliked this logic.

If something like this is what prevents someone for taking advantage of an opportunity, what kind of head do they have on their shoulders?

I was not too much older than Marc when i decided i wanted to move to Italy for a year to go to school there (without my friends, family, or a strong grasp on the langauge).
 

Hunter Gathers

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Seph said:
Difference of opinion then. I think it stalled his development. Sadly, we'll of course never know now. Don't get me wrong, I think the Islanders were in the same boat of continually rushing prospects and stalling their development. For example: Connolly, Pyatt, even Dipietro, were all being played in the NHL at way too young an age and weren't ready for it. Because of that, they have taken longer routes in their development than many players brought along at a slower rate. They would all have been better served getting top minutes at lower levels, IMO.

How in the world did it stall his development? He played fantastic for the Rangers and was CLEARLY ready for that level of play. What, would you want him to go back to the CHL and have his development REGRESS? He was NHL ready at 18 and any sane poster would acknowledge that it did nothing to hurt his development. Nothing, nada, zilch.
 

MentalPowerHouse

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Skroob said:
I've always disliked this logic.

If something like this is what prevents someone for taking advantage of an opportunity, what kind of head do they have on their shoulders?

I was not too much older than Marc when i decided i wanted to move to Italy for a year to go to school there (without my friends, family, or a strong grasp on the langauge).

Good for you, not everyone is the same.
 
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