Fedorov or Datsyuk

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by buffalowing88, Feb 3, 2011.

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  1. buffalowing88

    buffalowing88 Registered User

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    I don't really care for this to be a poll, more just to hear what the consensus is and what the arguments are. I'm fairly certain Fedorov has a distinct upperhand still but I also think it's time we start considering that the gap is quickly decreasing. Both players played incredible two way games and both had offensive talent in the top 5 of the league during their peaks, but I wanted to know whether it was pretty much unainmous still that Fedorov is considered the better player. They've both been key contributors on cup runs and I feel like it's certainly not out of the question to consider the possibility that Datsyuk has another handful of opportunities ahead of him to win another.
     
  2. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    Regular seasons are close - Fedorov's 93-94 is the best season between them by a good margin, but he never really repeated it. Datsyuk has probably been a top player in the regular season more often.

    But Datsyuk can't hold Fedorov's proverbial jock in the playoffs (where Feds consistently played at his 93-94 regular season level), so I think Fedorov easily takes this one.
     
  3. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    That's the answer right there. Fedorov's best is better than Datsyuk's best. He didn't always show it in the regular season, but there is a clear gap in their playoff performances even though Datysuk has probably been placed in an easier situation with the Wings.
     
  4. tarheelhockey

    tarheelhockey Highest Boss

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    I consider Fedorov a Hall of Famer, Datsyuk not (at least not with his current resume').
     
  5. seventieslord

    seventieslord Student Of The Game

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    Pretty much the same as tdmm... datsyuk has already had a longer stretch where he was known as a top-5 forward in the league. It could be argued that stretch was just one season long for Fedorov. But Datsyuk has had a couple of poor playoffs offensively, something Fedorov never really had.
     
  6. BraveCanadian

    BraveCanadian Registered User

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    Fedorov, fairly easily for me.

    Has a big advantage in size, peaked higher in the regular season & ended up saving himself a bit too much for the playoffs in my opinion - but you can't argue with how he did when he got there.

    One of the fastest skaters in the history of the league and he could do everything at top speed.
     
  7. jkrx

    jkrx Registered User

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    Like TDMM and Seventies already said. Fedorovs playoffs puts him above Datsyuk.
     
  8. connellc

    connellc Registered User

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    It's Feds. Not by a whole lot, but I think his playoff stats are incredibly underated by the hockey world. From 1995-1998 he scored 20 points in the playoff's 4 years in a row. I think that's only been done by one other person (Trottier).
     
  9. HangFromRafts

    HangFromRafts Registered User

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    Great comparison

    Both being my favourite players of all time, I look forward to the comments generated by this thread.

    I've had the fortunate chance of watching Detroit very closely since the early 90s and these are my observations:

    Skating: Feds was the more fluid skater and faster at top end speed, there wasn't anything he couldn't do at full flight. And he made it look so easy. His end to end rushes are legendary. Dats looks quite awkward w/ his Emmit Smith style of skating but i think that makes him more agile, he's deceptively quick and nimble. When he backchecks in the neutral zone, pick pockets someone, he makes the quickest turn back up ice. But i will have to give Feds the edge here, he was great to watch.

    Stickhandling: It's probably not close here, Dats is an absolute wizard. Puck on a string, especially his control along the boards in the offensive zone.

    Shot: Feds had a rocket, I believe the only player to ever win Fastest Skater and Hardest Shot at the all-star comp. A great enough shot that I believe, for a time, Feds played the point (w/ Lidstrom) on Detroit's main PP unit. Dats might have a better wrister but it's close.

    Defense: obviously the Selkes speak for themselves. Premier defensives forwards. This one is tough as the difference (if any) is subtle. I think Feds might have the edge here as he was such a great skater. I forget where the quote is, but Bowman said if he had left Feds on defense he was sure he would win the Norris trophy. Zetterberg actually reminds me of Feds w/ his aggressive backcheck.

    Offense: Agreed w/ some of the posts above that Feds' top end best was better than Datsyuk's best. But consistency and longevity were no part of Fed's resume. He was probably only considered a top 5 forward for a few years and I think Datsyuk has already past him in this regard. Feds obviously wins peak here but i'll give prime/consistency to Dats.

    Playoffs: Not that Datsyuk has been a poor showing in the playoffs, but Feds was one of the best playoff performers of all time. What he lacked in consistency in the reg season, he made up for it in the playoffs (4 consecutive 20pts post season campaigns). An monster in the playoffs, and I'm shocked he isn't the owner of a Conn Smythe. A huge impact player on 3 cup winning teams. Edge Feds.

    So with that, Feds has a higher peak, stronger playoff resume, both are close defensely although edge Feds, but lacked the consistency shown by Dats in the reg season. I still think i would have to give the edge to Feds. He did always leave me wanting more, as if the effort wasn't always there some nights but when he was on, he was on.

    Having watched the two I can say that Datyuk probably lacks all the tools Fedorov had and with Fedorov being slighly more dominant during his peak.

    Both are HOFs to me. Feds is a lock, Datyuks not quite a lock but has time and at current projection would likely get in given 2-3 more years as a top player and perhaps another deep playoff run (all very possible and likely)
     
  10. silkyjohnson50

    silkyjohnson50 Registered User

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    Nicely put. Having watched these two closley throughout their careers i agree with just about everything.

    Whether or not Datsyuk can continue to build on his playoff resume will determine how close this comparison gets in the future.
     
  11. BSHH

    BSHH HSVer & Rotflügel

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    As much as I worship Datsyuk, his playoff performances will have to improve drastically in order to close this gap to Fedorov. And I do not see this coming easily, as Zetterberg usually is the Red Wing's player, who visibly steps up in the playoffs.

    Gruß,
    BSHH
     
  12. overg

    overg Registered User

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    A couple of points. First, Fedorov's playoff performances. Yes, he had a string of 20 point postseasons. But I think he actually gets too much credit for those. He was certainly very, very solid for the Wings in the playoffs, but I don't think he was an all time great playoff performer. There's a reason he doesn't have a Conn Smythe. He tended to be very consistent, but rarely game breaking (the one possible exception might be the '95 finals, when Fedorov was pretty much the only Wing who posed any threat whatsoever to the Devils' trap).

    Second, Fedorov's defense. The "he could have won the Norris" is just flat out hyberbole. Sergei was a capable defenseman, but he was no where near Norris caliber. And people often forget that he was put back there as *punishment* for pretty much sucking it up as a forward. Sergei was slumping at center, so Bowman moved him to defense in an attempt to get his head into the game.

    The problem with Fedorov was that he was only great when motivated, and he was only motivated in the playoffs or when going head to head with the best teams in the league (e.g., Fedorov tended to gave excellent games against the Av's). Other than his Hart year, most of the time he was a decent second line forward.

    Having said all of that, I still give the slight edge to Fedorov, based solely on his playoff performances. Even though he wasn't carrying the Wings, he was a major, major part of their success, which is something I think Datsyuk still needs to work on. Regular season wise, I'll take Datsyuk's career over Fedorov's (Hart included), but the gap in the playoff performances is big enough that Sergei wins my overall vote.
     
  13. Seanconn*

    Seanconn* Guest

    not even close, Fedorov...
     
  14. ehhedler

    ehhedler Registered User

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    fedorov was better offensively and defensively

    for someone who didn't play to his best offensively in the regular seasons he scored 30+ goals 10 times
     
  15. I'm not so sure Fedorov really was better offensively. Even the year he finished second in points, he was 4th overall in points per game, something Datsyuk has done twice in a row. Not too mention this year, the only players playing at a higher pace offensively are, Crosby - 1.61, Stamkos - 1.31, D. Sedin - 1.29, Martin St. Louis 1.19, and Henrik Sedin - 1.19, Datsyuk's ppg is 1.18 and he only played less than 5 minutes of his last game (so technically he trails only 3 players once again in this regard).

    Fedorov only finished top 10 in points per game twice.

    That said, Fedorov has easily been the better playoff performer and probably was more of a defensive force than Datsyuk, but I'm not saying for sure, it's quite close as far as I can tell.

    Overall, slight edge to Datsyuk for me.
     
  16. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    The reason Fedorov doesn't have a Smythe is that North American voters weren't ready to give one to a ******* commie / soft Russian in 1997. He was the best Red Wing by a fair margin 1997 in my opinion. Also, I remember Yzerman and Lidstrom occasionally having off playoffs in the late 90s, but Fedorov really never did. You comment about 1995 extends to what I remember about Feds in the playoffs - even when the rest of the Wings were having trouble, Fedorov still showed up.

    True

    Also true, but you know what? Can't argue with the results. After 3 straight choke jobs by the Wings, in which they were heavy favorites in all (1994-1996), Fedorov realized that the WIngs were good enough to make the playoffs as a decent seed even if he coasted in the regular season. And the fact is, he continued to play at his 93-94 regular season level in the playoffs more often than not.

    I would much rather have a player like Fedorov on me team than someone like Dionne if I were trying to win a Cup.

    Fair enough.
     
  17. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    I think what really drives that point home is that Yzerman reportedly finished 2nd to Vernon in the 1997 Conn Smythe vote, which could only have occurred through pure sentimentality/bias against Fedorov. Watching that playoff year, Fedorov was a clear level above Yzerman in performance.
     
  18. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    To add to my defense of "Fedorov coasting:"

    The man was raised as a center in the old Soviet system to always think defense first. So even when he coasted, he still played excellent defense, it was his offense that suffered the most. (The complete opposite of your typical superstar coaster).
     
  19. overg

    overg Registered User

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    I think that had far more to do with a pro-Yzerman bias than an anti-Fedorov one. Fedorov had already won the Hart Trophy, so I don't think there was any North American bias. The fact was, you could have made an argument for any number of Wings that year. They were rolling four lines damn near equally, and no individual Red Wing had an overly dominant playoffs. Vernon, Yzerman, Fedorov, Shanahan, Konstantinov and Lidstrom all had their names bandied about. And as often happens in such scenarios, the goalie ended up with the Smythe.
     
  20. Reds4Life

    Reds4Life Registered User

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    I think Fedorov was easily the best Red Wings in 97 playoffs..
     
  21. Reds4Life

    Reds4Life Registered User

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    Damn typo, and I can't edit my posts because of infraction(s) :/

    Anway, Fedorov was exceptional and step above everyone else that year.
    Vernon was decent, but definitely not Conn Smythe-like
     
  22. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    The "soft Russian" stereotype specifically applied to the playoffs, where "good old Canadians grew up worshipping lord Stanley's Cup and those Russians love making fancy plays but aren't willing to do what it takes."

    I don't think there was ever an anti-Euro bias in regular season awards.

    But there's a reason it was a big deal when Lidstrom because the first Euro to win a Smythe (2002) and the first Euro to captain a team to a Cup (2008). Anything to shut up cavemen like Don Cherry.

    Vernon won as the "default candidate" only because voters were unwilling to recognize the Russian.

    It's ridiculous that Yzerman was even considered when Fedorov outscored him 21-13. Shanahan had 17 points, and I guess was the "missing piece," so I guess I can see why he was named, even if I can't see how his physical game provided more than Fedorov's flawless defense.
     
  23. overg

    overg Registered User

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    I probably would have voted for Lidstrom that year, but in Yzerman's defense, he really did "lead" that team. It was his acceptance of equal ice time for all forwards that had everyone buying into the system. It was his sacrificing offense for defense that made everyone step in line with the left wing lock. And Yzerman was throwing his body in front of shots all over the place during those playoffs. You damned well better believe the rest of the Wings noticed.

    Points wise, Yzerman was a notch below Fedorov (and Shanahan, for that matter), but he was still hugely important in the Wings finally winning the Cup, and it wouldn't have been crazy for him to take home the Smythe for it. The fact that he was one of the most popular players in the league even back then certainly didn't hurt his vote totals, but he wasn't just coasting on his name value.

    Anyway, my main point when I started all of this is that Fedorov was not an all time great playoff performer. He was very good, but I think his 20 point playoffs streak causes some to rank him higher in playoff performance than he probably deserves. Having said that, he does deserve to be ranked above Datsyuk in the playoffs, and by a significant margin.
     
  24. He was 4th in points per game in the playoffs in the dead puck era, and has an obvious defensive edge over every other forward in that time as well.
     
  25. JackSlater

    JackSlater Registered User

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    I agree. I was shocked when he did not win the award. I'm shocked now to find out that Yzerman was apparently second. The only player I thought was in his league on Detroit was Shanahan.
     

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