Fantasy Mock Discussion 2

[Joey Moss]

He’s better at stopping hockey pucks than Carey Price tho

Well that’s funny

 

[Addison Rae]

...in Colorado.

Not gonna comment on your team until this thing is done, but it's silly to say x>y at this point.

Never said he was better than Price.

Just saying goaltending is largely overrated. Francouz has dominated every level of hockey by being good at stopping pucks. Look at how Columbus is doing with two relatively unknown goalies. Team defense is important, if you can get around league average goaltending from Francouz (he's way above that right now) you're looking at a guy that's going to get the job done.

I don't think it's fair to say a goalie can drag my team down just because he doesn't have name value.

 

[Addison Rae]

Perhaps, but if we’re only looking at GAA and save percentage in a relatively short sample size, then guys like Darcy kuemper, Elvis Merzlikins, your guy, and Khudobin would be the unanimous best goalies in the NHL, ahead of guys like Vasilevsky, Markstrom, etc. Perhaps it’s just my opinion, but I think a bigger sample size is required, and more factors need to be considered (ie experience as a number one goalie, actual save percentage from higher danger chances, etc.)

Again there's no chance in hell he's better than Price, the point is he's done a bang up job in the NHL and every level he's been at recently. I don't get this notion that he's going to sink my team.

 

[belair]

Perhaps, but if we’re only looking at GAA and save percentage in a relatively short sample size, then guys like Darcy kuemper, Elvis Merzlikins, your guy, and Khudobin would be the unanimous best goalies in the NHL, ahead of guys like Vasilevsky, Markstrom, etc. Perhaps it’s just my opinion, but I think a bigger sample size is required, and more factors need to be considered (ie experience as a number one goalie, actual save percentage from higher danger chances, etc.)

Statistics, both basic and advanced, are meaningless without context.

 

[Horse McHindu]

@RIP Botchford - you have one hell of a team though, I’ll give you that! That’s some 80’s Oilers offensive firepower you got there. :-p

 

[AveryStar4Eva]

Goaltending is going to be an interesting point come voting. I value a strong defence far more than goaltending and we’ve seen a couple times in the past that a hot rookie can run away with it all the way to the cup; Murray, Ward, Binnington

 

[Joey Moss]

Francouz had a good run the first time Grubauer got injured and wasn’t great the second.

 

[Paralyzer008]

I like Francouz quite a bit - but ideally he's your 1B or backup, he hasn't played more than 50 games yet in his career and no idea what the extra workload would mean for him.

As a starter, it's a good gamble, but a gamble nonetheless.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Again there's no chance in hell he's better than Price, the point is he's done a bang up job in the NHL and every level he's been at recently. I don't get this notion that he's going to sink my team.

Completely agree.

And that’s something that Advanced stats won’t always tell you unfortunately.

A number of young goalies in this league currently have a better save percentage and GAA than Price, but if you’re a team that’s about to go into the playoffs, who would you rather have battling with you? Personally, I’d go with the guy that’s won a gold medal, has tons of playoff experience, and was regarded as the best goalie in the NHL for a number of years there.

To RIP Botchford’s point however, if a team in front is extremely dominating, then you don’t necessarily need a superstar in net. You just need someone that’s solid. Detroit had Mike Vernon and Chris Osgood for instance during the 90’s. Chicago had Corey Crawford.

 

[Addison Rae]

Francouz had a good run the first time Grubauer got injured and wasn’t great the second.

I mean you have to factor in the injuries the Avalanche have had over that time. All of Rantanen, Kadri, Mackinnon and Makar missed time with injury during that stretch.

 

[Joey Moss]

I mean you have to factor in the injuries the Avalanche have had over that time. All of Rantanen, Kadri, Mackinnon and Makar missed time with injury during that stretch.

That team is still better than Montreal though?

 

[Horse McHindu]

Completely agree.

And that’s something that Advanced stats won’t always tell you unfortunately.

A number of young goalies in this league currently have a better save percentage and GAA than Price, but if you’re a team that’s about to go into the playoffs, who would you rather have battling with you? Personally, I’d go with the guy that’s won a gold medal, has tons of playoff experience, and was regarded as the best goalie in the NHL for a number of years there.

To RIP Botchford’s point however, if a team in front is extremely dominating, then you don’t necessarily need a superstar in net. You just need someone that’s solid. Detroit had Mike Vernon and Chris Osgood for instance during the 90’s. Chicago had Corey Crawford.

Weird.....

I was trying to respond to @belair and I quoted RIP Botchford by mistake. I’m not really aging well these days, lol. #8monthsuntil40

 

[m0pe]

Francouz is pretty damn good actually.

I guess you can argue he is unproven, so he is better suited as a 1B/great backup in this game...but his performance this year was better than a lot of starters taken earlier.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Top 10 from 2018-19 to 2019-20 in high-danger save percentage (AKA the goalies making the real tough saves)

We'll put a minimum of 40 starts on it. All of this is at 5v5.

1. Pekka Rinne
2. Jordan Binnington
3. Ben Bishop
4. Corey Crawford
5. Jaroslav Halak
6. Thomas Greiss
7. Tuukka Rask
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Philipp Grubauer
10. MacKenzie Blackwood

Bobrovsky was 11. Shesterkin and Merzlikins were high but didn't make the GP requirement.

2019-20 alone, minimum 20 starts:

1. Jake Allen
2. Tuukka Rask
3. MacKenzie Blackwood
4. Jordan Binnington
5. Corey Crawford
6. Philipp Grubauer
7. Pekka Rinne
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Mikko Koskinen
10. Henrik Lundqvist

Bishop was 11

When you factor in special teams, Markstrom + Merzlikins rise for 2019-20, Rinne falls hard.

Bobrovsky, Lehner and Kuemper rise in the combined standings factoring in for special teams, Rinne falls again.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Top 10 from 2018-19 to 2019-20 in high-danger save percentage (AKA the goalies making the real tough saves)

We'll put a minimum of 40 starts on it. All of this is at 5v5.

1. Pekka Rinne
2. Jordan Binnington
3. Ben Bishop
4. Corey Crawford
5. Jaroslav Halak
6. Thomas Greiss
7. Tuukka Rask
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Philipp Grubauer
10. MacKenzie Blackwood

Bobrovsky was 11. Shesterkin and Merzlikins were high but didn't make the GP requirement.

2019-20 alone, minimum 20 starts:

1. Jake Allen
2. Tuukka Rask
3. MacKenzie Blackwood
4. Jordan Binnington
5. Corey Crawford
6. Philipp Grubauer
7. Pekka Rinne
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Mikko Koskinen
10. Henrik Lundqvist

Bishop was 11

When you factor in special teams, Markstrom + Merzlikins rise for 2019-20, Rinne falls hard.

Bobrovsky, Lehner and Kuemper rise in the combined standings factoring in for special teams, Rinne falls again.

How in the blue hell is Jacob Markstrom not at or near the top of that list? That list offends me as a Canucks fan!

 

[Paralyzer008]

Pekka Rinne has a crazy bad .583 high-danger save percentage on the PK this year - which is the worst in the NHL for goalies starting more than 20 games by a good margin.

 

[Panda Bear]

Now do it for goals saved against average, goals saved against league average percentage, quality of starts, and the kicker being total number of starts, which always drags stats down.

 

[hockeynorth]

See John Gibson would’ve been so much better on a better team, much like Price

 

[hi]

Top 10 from 2018-19 to 2019-20 in high-danger save percentage (AKA the goalies making the real tough saves)

We'll put a minimum of 40 starts on it. All of this is at 5v5.

1. Pekka Rinne
2. Jordan Binnington
3. Ben Bishop
4. Corey Crawford
5. Jaroslav Halak
6. Thomas Greiss
7. Tuukka Rask
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Philipp Grubauer
10. MacKenzie Blackwood

Bobrovsky was 11. Shesterkin and Merzlikins were high but didn't make the GP requirement.

2019-20 alone, minimum 20 starts:

1. Jake Allen
2. Tuukka Rask
3. MacKenzie Blackwood
4. Jordan Binnington
5. Corey Crawford
6. Philipp Grubauer
7. Pekka Rinne
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Mikko Koskinen
10. Henrik Lundqvist

Bishop was 11

When you factor in special teams, Markstrom + Merzlikins rise for 2019-20, Rinne falls hard.

Bobrovsky, Lehner and Kuemper rise in the combined standings factoring in for special teams, Rinne falls again.

Anton Khudobin steal of the draft in Round 13

 

[Paralyzer008]

How in the blue hell is Jacob Markstrom not at or near the top of that list? That list offends me as a Canucks fan!

Markstrom this year is 18th at 5v5 high-danger save percentage and 8th at overall numbers.

He's 11th on the PK - surprisingly, Thatcher Demko is 3rd (and Martin Jones is 2nd!!!!)

 

[Horse McHindu]

.......I had been flirting with the idea of putting Simmonds on my 3rd line with JPG and Foligno but that ship has now officially sailed.

 

[LT]

How in the blue hell is Jacob Markstrom not at or near the top of that list? That list offends me as a Canucks fan!

Because he's very good but not elite. Reminds me a LOT of Kari Lehtonen for so many years on Dallas.

 

[Paralyzer008]

Sometimes we can tell who has a bad team D in front of them if they are in the top 10 in either RUSH ATTEMPTS AGAINST or REBOUND ATTEMPTS AGAINST - we'll go minimum 20 starts

Rush Attempts Against per 60 mins top 10 in 2019-20: Dell, Lundqvist, Demko, Grubauer, Anderson, Hogberg, Halak, Rask, Koskinen, Talbot

Rebound Attempts Against top 10 per 60 mins top 10 in 2019-20: Lundqvist, Bobrovsky, Raanta, Koskinen, Grubauer, Hellebuyck, Hogberg, Fleury, Anderson, Markstrom

Although those stats have many factors added to them - such as goalies creating rebounds due to bad control. Also, rush attempts could be just attempts from the side too - for example look at Boston's goalies and Grubauer being in there, Boston/Colorado are good at limiting shots to the side.

In the overall numbers, if you don't factor in rates/60, Price/Gibson's numbers do go up in both categories into the top 10.

Shesterkin's numbers are very high in rush attempts/60 and yet his save percentage is stellar.

 

[Horse McHindu]

Because he's very good but not elite.

:-o

 

[belair]

Top 10 from 2018-19 to 2019-20 in high-danger save percentage (AKA the goalies making the real tough saves)

We'll put a minimum of 40 starts on it. All of this is at 5v5.

1. Pekka Rinne
2. Jordan Binnington
3. Ben Bishop
4. Corey Crawford
5. Jaroslav Halak
6. Thomas Greiss
7. Tuukka Rask
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Philipp Grubauer
10. MacKenzie Blackwood

Bobrovsky was 11. Shesterkin and Merzlikins were high but didn't make the GP requirement.

2019-20 alone, minimum 20 starts:

1. Jake Allen
2. Tuukka Rask
3. MacKenzie Blackwood
4. Jordan Binnington
5. Corey Crawford
6. Philipp Grubauer
7. Pekka Rinne
8. Anton Khudobin
9. Mikko Koskinen
10. Henrik Lundqvist

Bishop was 11

When you factor in special teams, Markstrom + Merzlikins rise for 2019-20, Rinne falls hard.

Bobrovsky, Lehner and Kuemper rise in the combined standings factoring in for special teams, Rinne falls again.

If this is how we're judging the goalies, I feel pretty good about my tandem.