Fantasy GM Thread | Part 7

[Peter Griffin]

The thing with Myers is that there will probably still be some GM out there that actually values him for his size, RH'ed shot, and mobility. I doubt the Canucks could get any value in the form of picks/prospects, but there's probably a Gudbranson/Pearson type swap out there.

 

[sting101]

Hughes doesn't have non sensical pinches and actually produces offense when he plays with the puck and knows how to cycle with the forwards in offensive zone. Watch the game yesterday, Myers killed 2 great cycles the lotto line had going by being in the way when they were moving the puck. Also Hughes at least turns over the puck when their are 2 players pressuring him, not by throwing the puck at skates and losing the puck in his skates

Hughes is fantastic and a poor comp for any defenseman in the offensive zone. In 50 plus yrs this org has never had someone like him.

He's on his way to a green jacket though. Without his talents with the puck and when we have it he is amongst the worst defenseman in the NHL

 

[mriswith]

Players get judged by their contracts. Myers on 3x3 would fly under the radar. Myers on the Benn contract 2x2 would be praised.

Myers on 6x6 gets all the heat he deserves.

If Hughes gets 7M for term we'll continue praising him. If he goes the Matthews/Marner route and somehow gets a 12M contract, yes he'll become the new whipping boy.

Idk why some people want to judge players outside their contracts. It matters because they get compared against the equivalent player their cap hit could bring in on average and that's the bar they need to outperform.

 

[sting101]

100%.

I don't understand this impassioned defense of Myers from Cog. All the smart people here said he was basically an error-prone 4/5 who's paid at roughly double what he should be. He's essentially performed as expected.

We're supposed to be thankful for this??

No you should be mad and continue to spew hatred for the duration of his contract?

Cog made a great point. People are not being objective at all.

 

[bossram]

No you should be mad and continue to spew hatred for the duration of his contract?

Cog made a great point. People are not being objective at all.

Yes. I think fans have a right to be mad that the GM signed what was a predictably awful contract.

How are we not being objective? My assessment of Myers, at the time of the signing, was based on his play thus far in his career: He is a defensively weak, #4/5 defenseman and the $6 million cap hit is way too much for this. His play with the Canucks has been pretty much what I expected. I'm not moving any goalposts here. Yet I'm"not objective".

Cog didn't make any good points. They were just deflections. His main point #1 is that people aren't criticizing Hughes enough. Umm...okay? Yes, Hughes isn't playing great defensively. We agree. That's not about the Myers discussion though. His main point #2 is that the cap space would've been allocated elsewhere anyway (and his words, likely another overpaid contract). Again, this is not an argument in favour of Myers. It's an indictment on the GM that he probably would've made another poor move, yes. But it does not, in any way, justify the Myers contract.

 

[sting101]

Yes. I think fans have a right to be mad that the GM signed what was a predictably awful contract.

How are we not being objective? My assessment of Myers, at the time of the signing, was based on his play thus far in his career: He is a defensively weak, #4/5 defenseman and the $6 million cap hit is way too much for this. His play with the Canucks has been pretty much what I expected. I'm not moving any goalposts here. Yet I'm"not objective".

Cog didn't make any good points. They were just deflections. His main point #1 is that people aren't criticizing Hughes enough. Umm...okay? Yes, Hughes isn't playing great defensively. We agree. That's not about the Myers discussion though. His main point #2 is that the cap space would've been allocated elsewhere anyway (and his words, likely another overpaid contract). Again, this is not an argument in favour of Myers. It's an indictment on the GM that he probably would've made another poor move, yes. But it does not, in any way, justify the Myers contract.

Fair enough.

I wasn't directing the objective opinion directly at yourself. But what Cog pointed out is that people have a pre conceived hatred of Myers and a hyper critical judgement. It was grossly apparent during last nights game and has been echoed by others in their post game analysis of the players.

People are fired up and have had enough of Benning's poor contracts and Myers and his wild inconsistencies are a perfect place to direct it as he plays more minutes and situations and with worse players than he should have to if we had a GM who could have evaluated a defenseman and had some decent young players that didn't need babysitting.

Furthermore he pointed out that Green and his high pressure forward system is leaving our D in an incredible amount of odd man situations with horrible gaps and that makes it harder for our D. I think he hit the nail with that comment.

Also Cog pointed to the fact that Myers was able to handle Greenway Tuch type size and power that has traditionally ran rough shot on the team that didn't have someone who could match up and handle them

Yes sure he's overpaid but the comparisons to Gudbranson and Eriksson at this stage are completely off base. Myers can still skate and has some talent.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

You gotta find the stones to move Miller for a big return while he still has real value.

Pearson should be gone by the deadline for 2nd or a 3rd and a prospect.

Gaudette for a young defensive prospect of similar value.

Virtanen needs to go for whatever we can get for him, for the sake of his own NHL career. Probably worth no more than a 3rd at this point, or a similarly struggling prospect (move him to the East in this case).

See if anyone will pick up Benn for a bag of pucks. Even a late pick works.

That alone would get us an additional four picks for the upcoming draft, at a minimum.

 

[bossram]

Fair enough.

I wasn't directing the objective opinion directly at yourself. But what Cog pointed out is that people have a pre conceived hatred of Myers and a hyper critical judgement. It was grossly apparent during last nights game and has been echoed by others in their post game analysis of the players.

People are fired up and have had enough of Benning's poor contracts and Myers and his wild inconsistencies are a perfect place to direct it as he plays more minutes and situations and with worse players than he should have to if we had a GM who could have evaluated a defenseman and had some decent young players that didn't need babysitting.

Furthermore he pointed out that Green and his high pressure forward system is leaving our D in an incredible amount of odd man situations with horrible gaps and that makes it harder for our D. I think he hit the nail with that comment.

Also Cog pointed to the fact that Myers was able to handle Greenway Tuch type size and power that has traditionally ran rough shot on the team that didn't have someone who could match up and handle them

Yes sure he's overpaid but the comparisons to Gudbranson and Eriksson at this stage are completely off base. Myers can still skate and has some talent.

I agree that in the right situation and at the right price, Myers could be a good fit. This isn't it though. My criticisms are more toward the GM, because he's the one that executed the signing. Myers is what he is - an overpaid player in a bad spot. He's not good, but he shouldn't be on this roster anyway. I agree that some of the rhetoric here gets vitriolic, but I think it's more just a case of people talking over each other. One crowd is trying to justify Myers, while the other crowd is (correctly) saying that this performance is exactly what should've been expected.

Yeah, he's definitely better than Gudbranson, but as he ages...I don't think the Loui comparisons will be that off base.

 

[BenningHurtsMySoul]

I would pay Seattle a premium to take Myers off our hands.

 

[Hansen]

Nils Hoglander is what Petrus Palmu was supposed to be

 

[iceburg]

Nils Hoglander is what Petrus Palmu was supposed to be

And Palmu was a 6th round pick whereas Hoglander was a high 2nd who could have easily gone in the 1st.

 

[iceburg]

I would pay Seattle a premium to take Myers off our hands.

It would probably take retaining at least 25%, maybe 50%, plus a high pick or prospect.

 

[Hansen]

And Palmu was a 6th round pick whereas Hoglander was a high 2nd who could have easily gone in the 1st.

tbf Palmu's 17-18 Liiga season was very much on par with Hoglanders SHL performance this year, he was an overager in the draft I think too. Great EU prospects to have kicking around even if they dont work out all the time

 

[iceburg]

tbf Palmu's 17-18 Liiga season was very much on par with Hoglanders SHL performance this year, he was an overager in the draft I think too. Great EU prospects to have kicking around even if they dont work out all the time

Yes, very different development paths though. Hard to compare. Don't get me wrong, I like Palmu and wish he could have worked out here.

 

[4Twenty]

Tyler Myers makes top 30 defensman money and is a number 5.

Not getting the puck deep last night on the 3-1 goal is typical of Myers.

He’s also the player who’s presence drove out the actual legitimate RH veteran Dman we actually desperately need.

Myers makes plenty of Gudbranson esque decisions.

 

[Hansen]

Yes, very different development paths though. Hard to compare. Don't get me wrong, I like Palmu and wish he could have worked out here.

Oh yeah of course, I was memeing with the initial post

i am always going to stan our short kings

 

[4Twenty]

Myers would probably do wonders in Tampa playing the 11-12 Luke Schenn minutes.

That’s the thing about capped leagues this type of analysis is shallow and means diddly squat.

 

[Fire Benning]

Bravo...well said

The Hughes bit is gonna be so true.

This market largely deserves a loser.

Tyler Myers is on a horrendous contract, is absolutely terrible defensively and is in the bottom tier of the league in pretty much every advanced stat for defenders.

The notion that critiquing a player like this somehow equates to “the market sucks” is just absolutely baffling. He’s been f***ing terrible this year.

 

[4Twenty]

Bravo...well said

The Hughes bit is gonna be so true.

This market largely deserves a loser.

We’ve had a loser and you’ve been hearing saying it’s been great the whole time. The irony.

 

[sting101]

Tyler Myers is on a horrendous contract, is absolutely terrible defensively and is in the bottom tier of the league in pretty much every advanced stat for defenders.

The notion that critiquing a player like this somehow equates to “the market sucks” is just absolutely baffling. He’s been f***ing terrible this year.

That's not what we were discussing at all. We were discussing the bias that exists and how that is expressed in this forum.

Outside of 5 awful games early on without a pre season he's been fine

 

[sting101]

We’ve had a loser and you’ve been hearing saying it’s been great the whole time. The irony.

I'm about to put you on ignore...grow up. Your a parent FFS. This is hockey not life.

Rather than attacking me with incorrect blanket statements perhaps you can collect yourself and form an argument worth discussing

 

[4Twenty]

I'm about to put you on ignore...grow up. Your a parent FFS. This is hockey not life.

Rather than attacking me with incorrect blanket statements perhaps you can collect yourself and form an argument worth discussing

Not sure what being a parent has to do with the price of spinach.

We’ve had a loser for years.

You’ve mostly supported this regime. Maybe a blanket statement but it’s not far off.

It’s a bit pathetic to state folks you don’t know deserve to support a loser based on a correct evaluation of Myers.

 

[Pastor Of Muppetz]

That's not what we were discussing at all. We were discussing the bias that exists and how that is expressed in this forum.

Outside of 5 awful games early on without a pre season he's been fine

Obviously, the 'pile on' is in full swing..Saying that Myers (who was our leading D man at ES minutes last season) is comparable with Eriksson (who hasn't contributed anything to the team since day 1 ) is a 'hot take' indeed.

 

[4Twenty]

When you find out Troy Stecher led the blueline in ES ice time the year prior (Hutton was 2nd).

Both bottom pairing guys making way less than half Myers salary.

 

[Cogburn]

Yes. I think fans have a right to be mad that the GM signed what was a predictably awful contract.

How are we not being objective? My assessment of Myers, at the time of the signing, was based on his play thus far in his career: He is a defensively weak, #4/5 defenseman and the $6 million cap hit is way too much for this. His play with the Canucks has been pretty much what I expected. I'm not moving any goalposts here. Yet I'm"not objective".

Cog didn't make any good points. They were just deflections. His main point #1 is that people aren't criticizing Hughes enough. Umm...okay? Yes, Hughes isn't playing great defensively. We agree. That's not about the Myers discussion though. His main point #2 is that the cap space would've been allocated elsewhere anyway (and his words, likely another overpaid contract). Again, this is not an argument in favour of Myers. It's an indictment on the GM that he probably would've made another poor move, yes. But it does not, in any way, justify the Myers contract.

My point is that most of the bandwagoning hatred being spewed is holding Myers to a different standard then, not only Hughes, but Edler, Schmidt and any other defender. Had Hughes not emerged so quickly, and had we not gotten Schmidt...who do we have that can provide any kind of offense from the back end at this point? That's his game, not some shut down D, not a babysitter defensively responsible partner, but a guy that had comparable numbers to Hughes as a rookie. Speaking of whom, I'm not saying he deserves more criticism, I'm saying this board and this fan base would rip him apart without another scapegoat to key in on.

One of my other points is that Myers matches almost everything people wanted in a D this time 2 years ago. Caveat emptor, I guess.

The cap space bit was more of a side note. We'd all love 6 million in cap space, but this is Benning we're talking about. And yes, it is an indictment of Benning. He's gotten better, as I've argued in the past, but he's still awful.

All that lead up is mostly an indictment of Green, and about him trying to hammer a round peg into a square hole. Not just Myers, but Gaudette, Virtanen, actually most of our bottom six, and a good number of D that have played for us since he became head coach.

But read it how you want I guess.