Fan960 Calgary reports PA rejects League's cap offer

[Hockey_Nut99]

Buddy your living in a different world. For god sakes, your a Yankee and Ranger lover. The two teams you represent are the poster childs for what is wrong in these sports.

How come when a player doesn't get a contract he wants, he holds out on his services? Have you ever realized that if an owner says no to 3 or 4 players on his roster, then his whole season can be in jeapordy? They put alot of pressure on the owners. Fans get on the GM to hurry up and ice the best team possible. The players don't care. Look at Gaborik. He screwed up things for Minny this year. There is many scenerios that go into it.

Who cares who made the mess. Isn't it the bottom line that the NHL is not well economicaly? Isn't that the thing were supposed to be looking at? Players make me sick. "It's your fault. Even though you provide me and my family money, I will not hellp you get out of this mess." Absolutely pathetic!

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Buddy your living in a different world. For god sakes, your a Yankee and Ranger lover. The two teams you represent are the poster childs for what is wrong in these sports.

How come when a player doesn't get a contract he wants, he holds out on his services? Have you ever realized that if an owner says no to 3 or 4 players on his roster, then his whole season can be in jeapordy? They put alot of pressure on the owners. Fans get on the GM to hurry up and ice the best team possible. The players don't care. Look at Gaborik. He screwed up things for Minny this year.

yeah i am a yankee and rangers lover so my opinion should be discounted because of that?

the rangers have paid the price for there spending and the yankees haven't won a world series since they became the highest payroll team in baseball. (thats right folks during there great run from 96-2000 the yankees were not #1 in payroll) the yankees also pay 80 million in revenue sharing and luxary tax money and baseballs average salary has gone DOWN since the last cba was signed.

how come owners sign these players to contracts? ottawa didn't with yashin why didn't more owners do the same? fans do get on GMS but the gm doesn't have to listen to them. Do you think the new jersey devils gm listens to fans when they want a player signed? the players dont' care about you they do care about making money but so do the OWNERS.

 

[Sammy*]

Canvass the owners is the same as putting it up for a vote infront of the BOG?

wait for it


oh thats funny


you said and i quote


now you say they canvassed the owners. Prove it. if you want to make a statement that it was put up to a a vote or it was "canvassed" back it up with a link or a source. i know you think its to "rich" to ask someone to back up there statements with facts

Are you ever going to answer the question or is it hidden with that 400 mil Brewer value?

 

[Vomiting Kermit*]

Do you think the new jersey devils gm listens to fans when they want a player signed?

:lol

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

Are you ever going to answer the question or is it hidden with that 400 mil Brewer value.

not untill you provide me with a link that the owners voted on the 24% rollback offer. I don't like to deal with liars and frankly you lied about that twice in this thread alone.

 

[Sammy*]

not untill you provide me with a link that the owners voted on the 24% rollback offer. I don't like to deal with liars and frankly you lied about that twice in this thread alone.

I'll take your answer as being you know the players would cave.

 

[Poignant Discussion*]

Are you for reral. Is it "fair". Is it fair that the league has lost 200 + million over the last, what 1 year while the players have made 1billion in the last year.
By the way, why doesnt Goodenow put it to a vote?

Typical pro owner comeback

How about how much more value does your team hold today, then when you paid for it?

Columbus was bought for 80 million and now is valued at 148 million. You know thats a damned good investment

 

[SENSible1*]

"Son of"

Still waiting to hear how much each PA members vote counts for.

Do they get 1 vote for every million in their yearly salary?

Please clarify!

 

[nomorekids]

yahoo sports is reporting that Daly said,

"we had left the opportunity to meet again on friday open, but now it doesn't look like that's going to happen"

 

[CarlRacki]

but the owners that were in the league got that money. you are confusing two things here. this isn't about the money expansion teams paid out in salaries its about how much money the owners of the other teams got.

jeez

You asked a question: Who got more from expansion, the players or the owners.
Expansion created 96 additional player jobs that paid out more in just four years than all the expansion fees obtained by the owners. Therefore, expansion financially benefited players more than owners. This is simple stuff.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

I'll take your answer as being you know the players would cave.

how do you know that?

 

[Sammy*]

Typical pro owner comeback

How about how much more value does your team hold today, then when you paid for it?

Columbus was bought for 80 million and now is valued at 148 million. You know thats a damned good investment

He's talkin about "fairness" when the league is bleeding money.
I just turned it around.

 

[SENSible1*]

You asked a question: Who got more from expansion, the players or the owners.
Expansion created 96 additional player jobs that paid out more in just four years than all the expansion fees obtained by the owners. Therefore, expansion financially benefited players more than owners. This is simple stuff.

Pretty straight forward and easy to understand, for most people.

 

[Son of Steinbrenner]

You asked a question: Who got more from expansion, the players or the owners.
Expansion created 96 additional player jobs that paid out more in just four years than all the expansion fees obtained by the owners. Therefore, expansion financially benefited players more than owners. This is simple stuff.

if you want to play that game well than take into account the franchise values of the expansion teams.

a poster in this thread says the blue jackets owner paid 80 million dollars for his team and they are now worth 140 million. thats not a bad investment and proves my point that the owners have made out like bandits when it comes to expansion.

 

[Sammy*]

Typical pro owner comeback

How about how much more value does your team hold today, then when you paid for it?

Columbus was bought for 80 million and now is valued at 148 million. You know thats a damned good investment

Value is what someone would pay. I have difficulty believing Colunbus would fetch anywhere near that, but how much have they lost since inception?

 

[CarlRacki]

Columbus was bought for 80 million and now is valued at 148 million. You know thats a damned good investment

That's not very good math. The entry fee for the Columbus franchise was $80 million, but that's merely one of many costs of starting up a professional sports franchise. What about arena lease arrangements, marketing costs, hiring a staff, buying equipment, building a practice facility, etc. All this costs millions more. Not to mention the money spent by the owners putting in place a framework for a franchise without ever knowing whether one would be granted. Does the owner deserve no benefit from a successful, multi-million dollar gamble?

p.s. Should the price of earning equity in an investment be perpetual losses of operating revenues?

 

[Brent Burns Beard]

How come when a player doesn't get a contract he wants, he holds out on his services?

because, just like you and me, he is a human being and as long as he has fulfilled the terms of the contract he signed, he is not obligate to sign any contract he doesnt want to for any reason he chooses, whether we agree with that reason or not.

or are athletes our modern day gladiators ? they are not obligate to play professional sports if they choose not. if the sole reason they choose not to is because someone is not willing to pay them 100 billion dollars per second, than god bless em, thats their right.

dr

 

[Sammy*]

because, just like you and me, he is a human being and as long as he has fulfilled the terms of the contract he signed, he is not obligate to sign any contract he doesnt want to for any reason he chooses, whether we agree with that reason or not.

or are athletes our modern day gladiators ? they are not obligate to play professional sports if they choose not. if the sole reason they choose not to is because someone is not willing to pay them 100 billion dollars per second, than god bless em, thats their right.

dr

One of the few times I have agreed with you. If he has no contract, he's not obliged to play/sign anything. I really get irritated when a guy is said to be "holding out" when he in fact has no contract.

 

[two out of three*]

Well, Ill just try and pitch in my two cents here.

First of all.. There's no doubt in my mind that both sides feel pressured to get a deal done. But that said, they cannot rush a deal. They can't just whip out something that doesn't suit both sides. The owners can't simply "cave" into a no-cap situation, without getting something back in return. And the players can't "cave" into a cap situation, and not get anything in return.

None of us here want to admit it. But the fact of the matter is both sides are too far apart to rush a deal in 2 days. Hell, even a week they can't get a deal done. The right thing to do here, (and I hate to say this, and Im sure everyone else does) but the right thing to do is to cancel this season. Get the pressure off of your backs. Take your time, and make sure that you don't lose another season.

In my opinion you have to take baby steps. Cap, luxury tax aside here. What they should do in my opinion is go over everything else besides a cap, or a luxury tax. Get on the right track in regards to every other topic. Then move on to the big picture.

The bottom line here is each side has to give something. The owners can't be so close-minded that they institute a hard cap in every proposal they offer. On the other hand the players can't be so close-minded that IF the owners lay off the hard cap to say that "well that luxury tax is just like a cap." They are grown men, and they can get a deal done. Its not as easy as "cap" or "no cap."

I used to be pulling and pulling for a season THIS year. But in the best interest of the league, and IMO they should just start fresh. Cancel this season (and yes I know it even hurts me to say that) and start from scratch. Work from the bottom up. Agree with each other that they both made mistakes, and agree to be more open-minded in future negotiations.


TiesRLikeWins4Us

 

[Lady Rhian]

Its clear they want to blow up a sport that has crowned a champion every year since 1919. Its clear they don't care about the fans and the cities they play in.

Although you were talking about just the owners, I feel both sides have taken away something as precious as this. If they don't have a season this year, shame on them, all of them, for letting greed and pigheaded opinions get in the way of tradition. I'm just sick right now. I had my hopes up, and still, they may work something out yet, but it's slowly waning as the days go by.

 

[kerrly]

Well, Ill just try and pitch in my two cents here.

First of all.. There's no doubt in my mind that both sides feel pressured to get a deal done. But that said, they cannot rush a deal. They can't just whip out something that doesn't suit both sides. The owners can't simply "cave" into a no-cap situation, without getting something back in return. And the players can't "cave" into a cap situation, and not get anything in return.

None of us here want to admit it. But the fact of the matter is both sides are too far apart to rush a deal in 2 days. Hell, even a week they can't get a deal done. The right thing to do here, (and I hate to say this, and Im sure everyone else does) but the right thing to do is to cancel this season. Get the pressure off of your backs. Take your time, and make sure that you don't lose another season.

In my opinion you have to take baby steps. Cap, luxury tax aside here. What they should do in my opinion is go over everything else besides a cap, or a luxury tax. Get on the right track in regards to every other topic. Then move on to the big picture.

The bottom line here is each side has to give something. The owners can't be so close-minded that they institute a hard cap in every proposal they offer. On the other hand the players can't be so close-minded that IF the owners lay off the hard cap to say that "well that luxury tax is just like a cap." They are grown men, and they can get a deal done. Its not as easy as "cap" or "no cap."

I used to be pulling and pulling for a season THIS year. But in the best interest of the league, and IMO they should just start fresh. Cancel this season (and yes I know it even hurts me to say that) and start from scratch. Work from the bottom up. Agree with each other that they both made mistakes, and agree to be more open-minded in future negotiations.


TiesRLikeWins4Us

By Bettman not calling the season he is squeezing in some valuable negotiation time. You really think that they will even talk over the summer. If the season is cancelled I bet they don't talk at all let alone take baby steps. Bettman wants his hard cap and Goodenow doesn't. If it doesn't get done now, the next likely time it will be is January next year.

 

[rwilson99]

if you want to play that game well than take into account the franchise values of the expansion teams.

a poster in this thread says the blue jackets owner paid 80 million dollars for his team and they are now worth 140 million. thats not a bad investment and proves my point that the owners have made out like bandits when it comes to expansion.

If there is no CBA in 48 hours. The Columbus Blue Jackets will be worth less than the Columbus Clippers.

 

[nomorekids]

By Bettman not calling the season he is squeezing in some valuable negotiation time. You really think that they will even talk over the summer. If the season is cancelled I bet they don't talk at all let alone take baby steps. Bettman wants his hard cap and Goodenow doesn't. If it doesn't get done now, the next likely time it will be is January next year.

That's actually a good point. They could hold off on canceling the season to keep the urgency there...reach an agreement, and immediately make the statement,

"We're happy to finally have this behind us, unfortunately we don't feel there's enough time to have a meaningful season, so we regret to have to cancel the remainder of this season"

 

[PecaFan]

Please stop using average salaries and start using median salaries.

Why? It's not about median salaries. The PA's proposal would have lowered the median salary, while the NHL's proposal guaranteed the median salary would not be lowered.

People aren't realizing that is the season is canceled, there is no long term helth of the NHL. It will almost cease to be.

Nope. The NHL will be fine, even if they blow off the whole season. Hockey fans are extremely dedicated, *especially* US fans. The effort a US fan has to go through to follow his team is incredible. It's not front page news, he or she really has to work hard to follow their team.

Which brings us back to the biggest problem with the NHL, lockout or no lockout:

What revenue?

There's $2.1 billion dollars revenue. Maybe that's not very much in your world, but I think it should be more than enough to pay for several hundred hockey players.

 

[thinkwild]

The current figure being bandied about by John Davidson is that NHL revenues are $2.3 Bil. $200 mil more than the year in which they lost $200mil.