Fan 590 Reports Players Are Angry

[Jaded-Fan]

Absolute correct SOS.

Of course, its much easier NOT to bring oneself up to date with baseball's booming economics, and the fact that competitively the sport has had four different champions the last four seasons (none named "Yankees") - an occurance, that should it have happened in the glorious NFL would be characterized by these same critics as wonderful "parity".

Much easier to lazily spew out old cliches about how the sport of baseball is imperiled. Reading is fundamental, here's just one story that the knee-jerk reactionists ("baseball is in ruins! The Yankees buy everything! Its not Fair!" ) might want to read. Dave Shenin's Feb. 4 article for the Washington Post, "Baseball's Financial Reins Bringing Yankees to Heel."

But of course, that would take the courage to enlighten oneself with information contrary to their own hard-headed beliefs. You know, along the lines of those demaguagues still maintaining that there are WMDs in Iraq, and that there are martians on Mars.

I deal in facts . . . *points up* . . . what do you and Stenibrenners illigit son deal in? Care to take on the above? I especially would love you dealing with the fact that the teams in the lower half of the league in revenues won 5, count 'em, 5 games out of 224 playoff games since revenue sharing began. SOS has not said a word to rebut since I brought any of the above up over a week ago. That spoke volumes.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

The sport is in a world of hurt, and the owners are to blame. But now they are trying to fix their mistakes, and asking the players for help. Help which does not seem to be forthcoming.

I am in almost total agreement with all that you said above though I only quoted part. The one disagreement is that the owners in baseball will do anything in 2006. Big markets are guarenteed to win virtually every playoff game (119 out of 224 as quoted above), small and mid-sized markets pocket bribe money. Which owner is upset with this? We fans will get screwed once more, which is why I give up on baseball, I will buy hockey tickets and spend my money elsewhere.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

the seasons toast...don't bother getting your hopes up....

fire bob, and gary....freakin idiots....

let's go yankees!!!

I don't get it. He is being told what to do by the owners, and he is doing a fine job. I'm glad he isn't backing down, because the system would be screwed again and we would have a similar situation in the near future.

 

[Puckhead]

why because the average salary in baseball has gone down since the past cba was signed?

is it because the yankees pay 90 million in luxary tax and revenue sharing?

I fail to see how baseball is ruined by the yankees. NOT.ONE.OWNER. COMPLAINS WHEN THE YANKEES COME TO TOWN AND THEY SELL OUT. NOT.ONE.OWNER. COMPLAINS WHEN THE LUXARY TAX/REVENUE SHARING CHECK COMES IN THE MAIL. I fail to see how baseball is ruined.

Baseball is proof that a luxary tax works. Its not like the yankees are winning the world series every year.

If you love the Yankees thats fine, but you clearly are not a fan of baseball if you see nothing wrong with how the sport is being run. I spoke in an earlier post about how I see nothing wrong with what the Yankess among others are doing, but only because there are no real rules being broken, not because I like or agree with how the league is being run.

 

[Nich]

i am in favor of a cap, and wish there was one in baseball...i mean there actually use to be true yankees on my squad...now there is hired guns who i hate.

bring back the days of homegrown talent (jeter, bernie, posada, soriano, mo, andy, etc)

so just because i like the yankees and rangers, doesn't mean i am pro buying teams, i am pro developing them....for example, ottawa.

 

[Jaded-Fan]

*listens to the pin drop of silence . . . again*

How about addressing the above before spouting off about how wonderful revenue sharing is and about how baseball is not ruined by the Yankees Trots and SOS. Until then I really will take the position that I own the point.

 

[BrettNYR]

the seasons toast...don't bother getting your hopes up....

fire bob, and gary....freakin idiots....

let's go yankees!!!

I'm at the point where I am [/I]Rooting Against a season. A 20 game season is just pointless.

And LET'S GO YANKEES! PROVE THAT THE CURSE IS STILL ALIVE!!!!

 

[London Knights]

I don't get it. He is being told what to do by the owners, and he is doing a fine job. I'm glad he isn't backing down, because the system would be screwed again and we would have a similar situation in the near future.

He should be fired for how the league has gone under his reign since he took office, not so much for the lockout. Gary has yet to show any signs of being a visionary that can lead this game to greater heights and I am absolutely not willing to watch him fail to do this for another 10 years.

 

[deathbear]

can we please start talking about hockey? i really don't give a **** about baseball, and if you wanna talk about it, go somewhere else.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

can we please start talking about hockey? i really don't give a **** about baseball, and if you wanna talk about it, go somewhere else.

I agree. Who cares about the Yankees?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

can we please start talking about hockey? i really don't give a **** about baseball, and if you wanna talk about it, go somewhere else.

It does relate . . . the NHLPA propose a luxury tax and oppose a Cap. Baseball is the only place where the luxury tax has been tried, so seeing what actually has gone on there is very relevant to whether the NHL should go with a Cap or Luxury tax, which is the very heart of the labor dispute.

 

[BrettNYR]

I was just wondering if the Go Yankees person was in favour of a cap in the NHL or not.

I'm a Yanks fan and I'm in favor of it. I've been a Yankee fan since as long as I can remember, nothing to do with how much money they use.

 

[BrettNYR]

I agree. Who cares about the Yankees?

The team that wants to be just like them, maybe? *And you'll win another WS..... In another 86 years.*

 

[Motown Beatdown]

I dont think a link has been posted before. But now Sportsnet.ca is running this story of the gag order being lifted...



http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/article.jsp?content=20050212_130606_1772

 

[Sotnos]

can we please start talking about hockey? i really don't give a **** about baseball, and if you wanna talk about it, go somewhere else.

Agreed

 

[Puckhead]

I don't get it. He is being told what to do by the owners, and he is doing a fine job. I'm glad he isn't backing down, because the system would be screwed again and we would have a similar situation in the near future.

I have never really been a fan of Gary Bettman, but I agree with your post. He is doing what he has to do. He got many of these owners who need a cap or some form of cost certainty, their franchises, and he has to do what is best for them and the sport.

Goodenow on the other hand, is leading his lemmings right over the cliff! The NHLPA felt that the greedy owners would never be able to stick together, and they banked on it, literally. Well now its crunch time and the players are starting to think, well if the owners are willing to flush the season and lose out on all of that money and exposure and advertising etc..maybe we should think about capitulating.

In the '94 lockout, the owners could not stick together and the players won out, and they have been winning every year since. The ironic part this time around, is that there are almost new owners for every team in the league, from '94, so the PA is finding out that what ultimately worked last time, will not work this time, and they are totally out of options. They either take this deal that the league is offering, with some pride intact, or prepare to come crawling back on hands and knees when this whole fiasco is finally agreed to.

The union is at this time intact,. but if this drags on, and the League calls for IMPASSE, then the Union will fold like a cheap suit. I think whether it happens now or later, Goodenow will resign or be fired, and rightfully so. He didn't prepare his boys for where this is now going and how he could agree to anything the league is proposing after all his posturing against it and still expect to be credible.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

The team that wants to be just like them, maybe? *And you'll win another WS..... In another 86 years.*

Who cares about the Red Sox too?

See, you are the type to judge too quickly. If you would have known something about me, I used to be an Expos fan. I am currently a free agent fan.

 

[CarlRacki]

Absolute correct SOS.

Of course, its much easier NOT to bring oneself up to date with baseball's booming economics, and the fact that competitively the sport has had four different champions the last four seasons (none named "Yankees") - an occurance, that should it have happened in the glorious NFL would be characterized by these same critics as wonderful "parity".

Much easier to lazily spew out old cliches about how the sport of baseball is imperiled. Reading is fundamental, here's just one story that the knee-jerk reactionists ("baseball is in ruins! The Yankees buy everything! Its not Fair!" ) might want to read. Dave Shenin's Feb. 4 article for the Washington Post, "Baseball's Financial Reins Bringing Yankees to Heel."

But of course, that would take the courage to enlighten oneself with information contrary to their own hard-headed beliefs. You know, along the lines of those demaguagues still maintaining that there are WMDs in Iraq, and that there are martians on Mars.

Sigh ... c'mon Trots. If you're going to accuse others of not knowing the facts, perhaps you should first enlighten yourself.

Let's see ...

1. Baseball parity - while it's true baseball has had four different champions in the last four years, it's also true that two teams - the Yankees and Braves - have owned a full quarter of baseball's playoff spots for the past decade. Again ... two of 30 teams owning 20 of 80 spots. Another 21 of those 80 spots have been held by four teams - the Mariners, the Tribe, the BoSox and the Astros. So, in essence, 20 percent of baseball's teams have held 51 percent of its playoff sports. In the meantime, 11 of 30 teams have made one or fewer playoff appearances in the past decade. Eight have made none. Parity? Competitive? Nope.

2. The Yankees brought to heel? Their payroll is projected to be about $205 million next year, up about 10 percent from last year's $187 million. The luxury tax has been so hard on them they went out and spent $32.5 million for 2005 to boost their rotation and added new starters at first and second base. Yep, they are sure being brought under control.

3. Sheinin's piece is based on the Yankees not signing one particular free agent. It's more anecdote than analysis. A true analysis would have mentioned Beltran was seeking far above his real value (Cashman is smarter than that) and his forte - run production - is not a major need in a lineup featuring Sheffield, Jeter, A-Rod, Matsui, Posada, Bernie Williams and Reuben Sierra. A true analysis also would have mentioned the Yankees spent more than any team not named the Mets to improve its roster this off-season. That's quite a reining in the tax has done.

4. Speaking of facts, tell your boy SOS to check his. He claims the Yankees pay $90 million in luxury tax? Funny, but the Associated Press pegs it closer to $25 million. Maybe I'm being unfair, but for now I'll go with what the AP says. And, for what it's worth, the Post story you cite also puts the luxury tax at $25 million as well. And with $315 million in revenues, Steinbrenner can afford a $205 million payroll and $25 million tax (or even $90 million tax) and still be rolling in the dough. These are facts.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/baseball/mlb/12/31/yankees.payroll.ap/

 

[Marconius]

Absolute correct SOS.

Of course, its much easier NOT to bring oneself up to date with baseball's booming economics, and the fact that competitively the sport has had four different champions the last four seasons (none named "Yankees") - an occurance, that should it have happened in the glorious NFL would be characterized by these same critics as wonderful "parity".

Much easier to lazily spew out old cliches about how the sport of baseball is imperiled. Reading is fundamental, here's just one story that the knee-jerk reactionists ("baseball is in ruins! The Yankees buy everything! Its not Fair!" ) might want to read. Dave Shenin's Feb. 4 article for the Washington Post, "Baseball's Financial Reins Bringing Yankees to Heel."

But of course, that would take the courage to enlighten oneself with information contrary to their own hard-headed beliefs. You know, along the lines of those demaguagues still maintaining that there are WMDs in Iraq, and that there are martians on Mars.

Did you take the time to read the post right above yours?

 

[PeterSidorkiewicz]

On the issue of Gary Bettman I will never ever support what he does. First off isnt Gary Bettman Mr. Big bad basketball guy? WHY doesn't he offer up the the NBA's soft cap system, has anyone once even TALKED about a soft cap ever? This is the system im actually in favour of, something like the NBA's and it seems this method is being completely ignored by both sides. Secondly, it's easy for a commish to do what the owners want him to do in the instance of this CBA, but how about the past 10 years of Bettman helping run the NHL into the ground? Was that all the owners telling him what to do as well? If it was then these guys definitely should NOT be owning anything sports related. Whether the cap is implemented or not Bettman should be FIRED because the NHL commissioner needs to be a man passionate about the actual SPORT of hockey and the game, not just passionate about the economic structure. And I think everyone will agree with me Bettman is not even close to being passionate about a game in which I think this sport needs a passionate commissioner more than any other.

 

[Puckhead]

He should be fired for how the league has gone under his reign since he took office, not so much for the lockout. Gary has yet to show any signs of being a visionary that can lead this game to greater heights and I am absolutely not willing to watch him fail to do this for another 10 years.

Well said! He can never be mistaken for a visionary! Having said that, he did do a lot of what the league wanted. Yes he expanded way to fast, and into some more than questionable markets, but he did get $80 Million per franchise for his league and the owners. He really has not done a damn thing with the television side of the game, and now the sport really has no TV deal worth talking about.

His greatest flaw, has been the on ice product, and how it has completely deteriorated under his reign. He was hired for what he was able to do with Basketball...Basketball has become a very solid big 4 sport, with great TV deals and a workable system of operation, even though I don't support the soft cap system myself...Wait that all happened after he left, so why did the NHL get him to run the league? He is a lawyer and doesn't know the first thing about what makes this sport tick and after 12 years, he doesn't seem to be any closer to figuring it out.

 

[BrettNYR]

Who cares about the Red Sox too?

See, you are the type to judge too quickly. If you would have known something about me, I used to be an Expos fan. I am currently a free agent fan.

You're from Boston, I think. And I have to take a jab at the Sux, err Sawx any time I can. It's a law if you want to be a Yankee fan.

And I don't judge to quickly. YOU just judged me to quickly. There, we're even.

 

[Ron C.]

For example... Jose Theodore was quoted early on in this lockout as saying...He may have to consider returning to school and possibly think about another career. Hello? What career choice is going to offer him $6 Million a year?

In this job market, I don't see a large demand for the non-hockey services for 25-30 year-olds who maybe finished high school.

 

[Vic Rattlehead*]

You're from Boston, I think. And I have to take a jab at the Sux, err Sawx any time I can. It's a law if you want to be a Yankee fan.

And I don't judge to quickly. YOU just judged me to quickly. There, we're even.

I'm from St-Hubert QUEBEC. It says that right below my avatar. Is it that tough to read?

 

[Trottier]

I deal in facts . . . *points up* . . . what do you and Stenibrenners illigit son deal in? Care to take on the above? I especially would love you dealing with the fact that the teams in the lower half of the league in revenues won 5, count 'em, 5 games out of 224 playoff games since revenue sharing began. SOS has not said a word to rebut since I brought any of the above up over a week ago. That spoke volumes.

Sorry, I cannot take seriously one who demagagues the hyperbolic "We already have one 'sport' ruined we do not want it to happen in hockey too."

Check out baseball's recent financials, consider the level of competition, try finding the article referenced previously (you need to register)...and then we can talk.