F Ivan Miroshnichenko (2022, 20th, WSH)
- Thread starter Kshahdoo
- Start date
Miroshnichenko is 2+7 after 10 games, Michkov is 29+15 after 42 games. I'd say, it's a little bit early to say anything certain about Miroshnichenko. I mean, he obviously can play in the MHL, but his statistics isn't even close to Michkov's right now.
I always was in the Michkov camp. Starting with the fact that he is a year younger and always had better stats still. Miroshnichenko is nonetheless a around PPG player and he is a double underager of sorts too.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
Michkov isn’t a year younger.
I also think you can’t completely look at stats when both players have very good stats. Miroshnichenko’s game night project better to higher levels. Michkov’s game is well suited to junior hockey. It’s still to be seen if he can dominate to the same extent when he’s smaller than everyone else and lacks top tier quickness against professionals.
That’s not to say Michkov won’t be good because he probably will be, but there’s a chance Miroshnichenko’s better at replicating his effectiveness in junior hockey once they reach pro hockey.
I also think you can’t completely look at stats when both players have very good stats. Miroshnichenko’s game night project better to higher levels. Michkov’s game is well suited to junior hockey. It’s still to be seen if he can dominate to the same extent when he’s smaller than everyone else and lacks top tier quickness against professionals.
That’s not to say Michkov won’t be good because he probably will be, but there’s a chance Miroshnichenko’s better at replicating his effectiveness in junior hockey once they reach pro hockey.
10 months is a year older. Especially at that age 10 months may be "more than a year" impact wise. Ten months from now Michkov might be playing in the KHL already.
The talk about style is totally unwarranted. Michkov can hold his ground against guys who are up to 5 years older in the MHL. I don't see how he will be "too small" and his game "too junior" going forward. His game is just superior.
It's one year old but maybe still interesting, also about Miroshinichenko The "Next Big Thing" in hockey
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
He can hold his own against kids. It's a much bigger step up to professional hockey. And I'm not saying Michkov won't be really good. I think that maybe some people aren't recognizing that the reason that a player like McDavid was considered generational is not because he put up incredible stats in Ontario for about 8 years before being drafted. It was his skillset. He projected as a dominant 1C in many facets of the game.
We need to start looking beyond Michkov's stats. Once players reach a certain threshold with their stats at lower levels, the skillset starts mattering a lot more. As I said, I think we might be at the point where we have two very good players with similar enough stats. The skillset difference and how their skillsets project to professional hockey might be what gives Miroshnikchenko the advantage or at least what equalizes what most perceive is an advantage for Michkov. I said the same thing with the people that were trying to say Wright's stats in his first OHL year meant he was as good or better than McDavid. People need to start looking beyond the stats with these players.
NatusVincere
Registered User
- Nov 30, 2018
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Maybe you should just actually see him play and start looking beyond his stats...
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I have. Why don’t you address my argument instead of attacking me because I said something you didn’t like?
Look at that Datsyuk guy. Or Kaprizov. They aren't the fastest players around, but somehow always do right things on the ice. I'd say, Michkov is going to be better, than both of them.
If you wanna understand, what is hockey IQ and what impact does it have on the game, you will have to watch Michkov. And don't forget to add to this incredible stickhandling abilities and a very deceptive and precise shot.
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NatusVincere
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- Nov 30, 2018
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Lol. You are the one who questioned Michkovs skillset, not me. So if you don't see what makes him special and why he has been talked about for years even though he has only turned 16, then that's your problem.
We do look beond stats. Accept that. It has nothing to do with kids. 20 year olds in the MHL aren't exactly kids too and Michkov is not even 17. The hype around McDavid really started when he was 17. Michkov has passed the first test perfectly. He made th jump to the MHL at 15 and immideately was one of the best players. It is also not about stats. I watched him play. Michkov is just more skilled than Miroshnichenko. And that kind of skill is rare and can't be taught.
That is not a knock on Miroshnichenko. Michkov is on his way to becoming an elite player. Miroshnichenko might pan out as "just" one of the superstars.
Better than that Datsyuk guy? Man, i am excited if this is true - i havent seen Michkov play - but, hell, thats a massive call.
Offensively for sure. It's harder to measure defensive part of the game for forwards, but I think, Michkov will be better overall as well.
Martinez89
Registered User
- May 20, 2019
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Wooow, you repeatedly wrote he will be better overall player than Datsyuk... Datsyuk!!! Datsyuk´s overall play is one of the best ever in hockey. Michkov kid has 2 and half year into his draft and you wrote sh*t like this. Altough he is incredibly skilled player doing this kind of hype of him is embarrasing. Sorry.
People called McDavid generational, when he was about the same age as Michkov.
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
I am not ready to say Michkov will be better than Datsyuk. Kaprizov, maybe he will be. I would say though that Kaprizov is a different type of player. And my point is not that Michkov won't be very good. I think he will be, but there are countless examples of players whose games were better suited to dominating kids than dominating professionals. I said the same thing about Jack Hughes, and I got a lot of criticism. I said he was the best junior player I've ever seen. He set all types of records, and then he can't even score 30 points in his first NHL season. He's since become a good NHL'er this season, but thats besides the point. He's not dominating to that same extent in the NHL.
There is absolutely a difference between dominating and setting records in junior and doing anything approximating that in professional hockey. Thats why I suggest that Miroshnichenko might not have as hard of a time adapting his game to playing against professionals. He has pro size and speed already. And he's playing very well in the MHL, given his age. Michkov is playing better, but they are both playing well enough that we can say they are both dominating, given their age. Does it really matter that one is dominating a little more than the other? As I've said, there's a threshold where the degree of statistical domination doesn't matter as much and you have to look to the skillsets for the differences in how the players project.
You are making my main point for me. McDavid was called generational because he had generational speed, he had generational playmaking, he had generational skill, generational hockey sense, and he's a 6'1 center with an incredible drive for playing the game. Let's say Michkov has generational skill, hockey sense, playmaking, shot, and an incredible drive for playing the game. I'm not sure he even has all of that, but I'll concede it for the sake of this argument. He's still missing McDavid's speed and size, let alone position (generational players are usually always centers, except Ovechkin).
McDavid's stats were a byproduct of being generational. They were not what made him generational. There are just as many people calling Michkov generational as called Shane Wright generational. And I told them the same thing. If you think his skillset compares favorably to McDavid, call him generational, but don't make some argument that centers around how he's dominating kids or statistically has similar or better numbers. All that tells us is he's going to be a very good hockey player. It doesn't tell us he's going to be generational. Generational is a Lionel Messi, Lebron James, Roger Federer type of athlete. It's not reserved for someone whose very good but has flaws in their game that will keep them from being the best at the absolute highest levels of their sport.
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Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
You've moved the goalposts out of the arena.
If I'm questioning Michkov because I think Miroshnichenko might (not even will, might) project better, are you questioning Miroshnichenko? After all, this is a guy who is nearly PPG in the MHL in his U17 season, has been hyped prior to that as the best Russian prospect since Svechnikov (aside from the younger Michkov), and has all the skills to be a top 5-10 pick?
Pavel Buchnevich
Drury and Laviolette Must Go
20 year olds playing in the MHL in Russia are the equivalent to 20 year olds playing in the CHL or USHL in Canada or USA. They are all junior hockey players. Call them kids, if you want. Or don't, but it doesn't make a huge difference. There's a difference between trying to find a puck near the net playing against 20 year olds and trying to find a puck playing against a 29 year old whose been on a professional weight program for 10 years and weighs 230 pounds with 10% body fat. It's a different game. Reference a name like Jack Hughes last season in the NHL as an example. I heard the same things I hear (and see) about Michkov.
With players like this there is absolutely a chance they cannot dominate to the same extent once they start playing against high level professionals. It doesn't mean they won't be very good. In fact, I never once said anywhere that Michkov won't be very good. I said Miroshnichenko, a player you admit might pan out as a superstar, could close the gap because his game is more projectable to pro hockey. You and some others have put yourselves in a position where if Michkov does not become a .5GPG/1PPG type of player right away in the KHL and NHL, that you are essentially claiming, you will be wrong about how these two compare (or at least how Michkov projects). I think thats an unfair expectation to the kid. I don't think saying that and explaining what he might struggle with is knocking the kid.
The point is not them being 20, the point is Michkov being 15.
When Michkov is going to play against 29 year olds he won't be 15 either.
So far he is taking every new step without looking back.
Jack effing Hughes is not nearly in the same tier or prospects. He is much closer to Yakupov than he is to McDavid.
I on my part expect the gap between Michkov and Miroshnichenko to grow as they grow.
NatusVincere
Registered User
- Nov 30, 2018
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So whats your point here? All but you looking on stats and not beyond that?! Atas has already said everything, Michkov past the first test against young men, something Miro don’t done yet. There is simply no Point at all to believe that Miro will look better against Pros than Michkov at least today. Michkov has been too dominant at every level for that. And your only example to back up your argument is a 19 year old Jack Hughes...
