News Article: Eyeing the Subban Situation - Offer Sheet Time!

[The Zermanator]

If Montreal doesn't sign him by the offseason and it looks like he's not going to re-sign with them, how much would it take to trade for his RFA rights a few days before free agency? It shouldn't be too much, right? A couple B level prospects and a decent pick, maybe?

That would probably be our best chance of landing him. I don't see him signing with the Wings anyway, though. Based on his big personality and enjoyment of the spotlight, I'd expect him to sign somewhere like Toronto or New York.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

If Montreal doesn't sign him by the offseason and it looks like he's not going to re-sign with them, how much would it take to trade for his RFA rights a few days before free agency? It shouldn't be too much, right? A couple B level prospects and a decent pick, maybe?

That would probably be our best chance of landing him. I don't see him signing with the Wings anyway, though. Based on his big personality and enjoyment of the spotlight, I'd expect him to sign somewhere like Toronto or New York.

For his RFA rights, still a truck load of assets. The have control still at that point.

 

[Boomhower]

Subban should probably be PPG over at least one full season before people starting calling him a 100 point guy.

I said he could be a 100 point D man. It's called a prognostication. this is how you have to evaluate talent in the NHL. He is going to be around for the long haul, so its all about examining how he projects.

Based on his skill, his development, and the fact he is only 24 years old... the sky is the limit IMO. He has also been used improperly lately... he should and will be a top TOI guy in the league. If he was this year, he would currently be over a PPG. Also D-men continue to develop later then forwards.

Thanks for pointing out he hasn't scored a PPG yet, that intellectual property is available at Hockeydb. Are you saying he will be lucky to score a PPG? or are you saying you can't form an opinion on his production until Hockeydb tells you he has already scored a PPG?

 

[Boomhower]

If Montreal doesn't sign him by the offseason and it looks like he's not going to re-sign with them, how much would it take to trade for his RFA rights a few days before free agency? It shouldn't be too much, right? A couple B level prospects and a decent pick, maybe?
.

•$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
•Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
•Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
•Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
•Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

Considering Montreal could just wait it out and PK's contract would be sure to fall in the bolded range... you have to figure they would be looking for more than 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

•$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
•Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
•Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
•Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
•Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

Considering Montreal could just wait it out and PK's contract would be sure to fall in the bolded range... you have to figure they would be looking for more than 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd.

Did not realize the four firsts had gotten that high.

Offer-sheeting is impossible really in this case.

They would want some form of young roster talent, the package would be so extreme it is honestly tough to come up with.

Tatar, Kindl, Mantha and a first. I mean that is probably close to as an offer I can stomach even posting and every Habs fan would scream no and kill us for offering it. I think they would try to target Ouellet as well on top of that, it really would make you shutter, think about what the Preds actually asked the Flyers for in some reports before Philly threw their hands up and just tried to poison pill the contract, something you cannot even consider doing to Montreal and the new CBA has made almost impossible with variance not that it would matter in this case as like I said it is Montreal.

 

[Detroit Sports*]

Whats so taboo about offer sheeting someone I don't get it? They do it in the NBA constantly...

 

[Boomhower]

Whats so taboo about offer sheeting someone I don't get it? They do it in the NBA constantly...

Backes, Penner, Weber, Vanek, Kesler, Bernier, Ryan O'Reilly, Hjalmarson.

.. all 8 since 2007, so it is becoming less taboo in recent year.

The big difference from the NBA is the compensation table i just posted.

In the NBA, the most you can lose is one first round pick I believe.

 

[FlashyG]

You only bother with offer sheets if the team the player is on has an internal cap, or if there is potential for them to not match.

Montreal is one of the most profitable teams in the league so they will match any offer that the Wings could possibly afford. There is no point in even entertaining the thought of an offer sheet.

If Montreal is having trouble signing him, trade talks would make far more sense.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Thanks, speaks to what I was getting at, I do think Karlsson could threaten that, but even there I have huge doubts, because 100 points out of a D-man these days would be really hard to do.

The team is going to have to be super talented too for this to happen, Coffey was (dreaded Crosby rationale) on pace in the lockout shortened 94-95 season. But this is what I am getting at, it hasn't happened in 20 seasons so that is a pretty enormous claim especially when there is a better point producing D-man that I am not even sure can reach that total.

on very roughly scoring adjusted, that would have been around 131 point season for leetch back then. if one scores 100 points today.

adjusting the other way around leetch 100 points back then would be around 76 points today..

using 11-12 season numbers. karlsson had 78 points back then.

 

[MXD]

Habs fan here...

IF PK is real mad at Habs management (and I have some doubts about that) and entertains the idea to leave...

One would think that trying to get him to sign a 7 year deal that the Habs will match anyways would be SLIGHTLY counter-productive, no?

 

[Detroit Sports*]

Backes, Penner, Weber, Vanek, Kesler, Bernier, Ryan O'Reilly, Hjalmarson.

.. all 8 since 2007, so it is becoming less taboo in recent year.

The big difference from the NBA is the compensation table i just posted.

In the NBA, the most you can lose is one first round pick I believe.

The NBA has no compensation to the team losing their RFA. You have 7 days to match the offer if you don't you lose the player and that is it.

 

[DatsyukToZetterberg]

•$1,110,249 or below - No Compensation
•Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 - 3rd round pick
•Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 - 2nd round pick
•Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 - 1st round pick, 3rd
•Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 - 1st round pick, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $6,728,781 To $8,410,976 - Two 1st Round Picks, 2nd, 3rd
•Over $8,410,976 - Four 1st Round Picks

Considering Montreal could just wait it out and PK's contract would be sure to fall in the bolded range... you have to figure they would be looking for more than 2 1st, a 2nd and a 3rd.

That's over a 5 year period though. Say we went with a 7 year 56M offer sheet the salary would be averaged over 5 years & not 7. The cap hit would be 11.2M for the purpose of an offer sheet & that would mean we give up 4 1sts.

Whether we trade for him or offer sheet him it will cost a ton of assets & it will hurt. IIRC when Philly inquired about Weber they were told the price was B.Schenn+Voracek/L.Schenn+Couturier & maybe even more. Subban would cost less but he still would cost an arm & a leg, Mantha/Nyquist+Tatar/Jurco+DeKeyser/Sproul it would hurt a lot to trade for him.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

Love the idea, but offer sheets are a waste of time. They always get matched for the very good players.

This.

Holland doesn't offer sheet anyway. The above is one reason, the other is because he doesn't wanna get on anyone's **** list and have one of his players offer sheeted.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Louis Jean ‏@LouisJean_TVA 11 min
Talks on a contract extension for PK Subban planned to commence within next 2 weeks. #Habs

 

[DanZ]

Thanks, speaks to what I was getting at, I do think Karlsson could threaten that, but even there I have huge doubts, because 100 points out of a D-man these days would be really hard to do.

The team is going to have to be super talented too for this to happen, Coffey was (dreaded Crosby rationale) on pace in the lockout shortened 94-95 season. But this is what I am getting at, it hasn't happened in 20 seasons so that is a pretty enormous claim especially when there is a better point producing D-man that I am not even sure can reach that total.

100 points from anyone is really hard to do, especially a defenseman. After the last full season, wasn't Malkin the only player with 100 points?

One player.

 

[Henkka]

I'd rather project Ryan Sproul to be our offensive #1 and keep those 1st rounders.

 

[Chance on Chance]

I'd rather project Ryan Sproul to be our offensive #1 and keep those 1st rounders.

a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush though

 

[Henkka]

a bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush though

Offer-sheet or not, the Canadiens will keep their bird.

 

[Winger98]

Did not realize the four firsts had gotten that high.

Offer-sheeting is impossible really in this case.

They would want some form of young roster talent, the package would be so extreme it is honestly tough to come up with.

Tatar, Kindl, Mantha and a first. I mean that is probably close to as an offer I can stomach even posting and every Habs fan would scream no and kill us for offering it. I think they would try to target Ouellet as well on top of that, it really would make you shutter, think about what the Preds actually asked the Flyers for in some reports before Philly threw their hands up and just tried to poison pill the contract, something you cannot even consider doing to Montreal and the new CBA has made almost impossible with variance not that it would matter in this case as like I said it is Montreal.

Nashville really didn't want to move Weber, though. He was one of the guys they wanted to build their franchise around for a long haul. I'm not getting the same vibe from Montreal, and if they get serious about moving Subban, it's not going to be for a king's ransom.

That said, I think we're in a good position to make a move for him because we have a number of assets and limited spaces. If we could move two D for him (like one of kindl/smith and Marchenko/Jensen), plus a pick and maybe a fourth liner type (Andersson?), that works really well for us. We clear space for other prospects to step up, they get some quality back that can help immediately and that is cost controlled for awhile. Though why Montreal is worrying about money I have no idea.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Offer-sheet or not, the Canadiens will keep their bird.

watching thats hockey right now and their coached ripped PK huge, even if we dont offer sheet him he may only wanna sign a 2 year deal to take him to FA so if we offer sheet montreal will have a tough decision

 

[BF3]

I thought we should have offer sheeted him when we had the chance most recently. No idea why we didn't.

GMs don't do it because its a fraternity and it pisses other GMs off. In other words, cowards more or less.

 

[InjuredChoker]

how much you would give up for 24 yr old datsyuk?

start from there. and then add a some.

that's the price for subban imo.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

watching thats hockey right now and their coached ripped PK huge, even if we dont offer sheet him he may only wanna sign a 2 year deal to take him to FA so if we offer sheet montreal will have a tough decision

I doubt he is going to want a short-term deal, honestly.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I doubt he is going to want a short-term deal, honestly.

yah, he took his short-term deal. now he's going to cash in.

and rightfully so.

 

[SoupNazi]

I doubt he is going to want a short-term deal, honestly.

Agreed. He took his short term deal. He is going to take a seven or eight year deal this time.