Expansion Teams

[Fugu]

Is it reasonable to compare teams' positions on attendance lists when some of those have been in the NHL 0-5 yrs; 6-10 yrs; 11-20...or 80+?


If I'm thinking about this without much knowledge of specific details and histories, I'd expect any team that has <10 yrs to be lower in attendance and revenues. These aren't flipping schemes, but long term investments (although I know investment can mean different things to different billionaires...). Is 10 yrs a reasonable measure since I picked that out of thin air.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

FACT:
A sample size of one is worthless.

Marginally less worthless is a sample size of six - as far back as ESPN goes.

Teams who have finished in the bottom six of attendance since 2001, and number of times.

5 - Islanders
4 - Nashville
3 - Chicago
3 - Washington
3 - Phoenix
3 - Anaheim
2 - St. Louis
2 - New Jersey
2 - Boston
2 - Pittsburgh
2 - Carolina
2 - Atlanta
1 - Buffalo
1 - Tampa Bay
1 - Florida

The Islanders, Penguins and Sabres have all had their futures in serious question as a result. Much like certain Southern markets that often appear on this list...

Anaheim - something about winning a Cup says they won't be on there for a while.

Pittsburgh - won't be on that list again for a while. Not with Crosby & Co. hitting their stride.

St. Louis - won't be on that list again for a while. Not with actual ownership reaching out to fans to smooth over the disaster that was the dismantling of the team, the trading of Pronger, and the overall train wreck of '05-06 that saw Bill Laurie & Co. basically tell fans, "**** off - we don't care if you don't show up."

Washington? They need a playoff appearance - this year will be the crossroads for them. If they struggle on the ice, then is it the bad team that's keeping people away? If they do well on the ice and people still don't really show up, then is it a sign of what to expect going forward?

Chicago? Boston? They're going to be there for a while. It's not a reflection of whether fans in either city will support an NHL team - it's a reflection of just how pissed fans are with the current owners ... and Wirtz and Jacobs really don't care.

Phoenix? - they make sit squarely in last until the team actually gets really good (if ever).

Nashville? This season will make or break their long-term prospects of staying.

 

[Hartford HockeyFan]

Bettman Commish for Life!! Bettman needs to stay he is doing a good job, people are just a bunch of whiners or not real hockey fans that dont like Bettman.

 

[mouser]

3 - Phoenix

Phoenix? - they make sit squarely in last until the team actually gets really good (if ever).

Worth noting those 3 years for Phoenix were all in the old arena (01-03). The new arena opened in the middle of the 04 season and both attendance and revenue are much improved since then, even though on ice the team has had its worst three seasons since relocating.

Definitely looks like a couple lean years ahead at best though.

 

[Choice]

Brooks-Bettman trying to expand two more teams

Don't know if you guys saw Larry Brooks today, but he claims Bettman is trying to keep the Preds in N'ville and then further expand in Hamilton and Kansas City. We all know Brooks can be full of **** sometimes, and the NHL expanding is totally mind boggling.

You guys take this seriously?

http://www.nypost.com/seven/07222007/sports/power_play_sports_larry_brooks.htm

 

[GKJ]

Not really, there may be some confusion between "wants" and "trying" but it would help if you posted a link.

 

[zepps]

I've been hearing that for awhile. Bob McCowan has been all over it. Bettman promised the owners he would get them around $500million (can't remember the break down) for an expansion teams in KC and Las Vegas.

If this is true, the last thing the NHL needs to do is expand by two teams.

 

[andy*]

Don't know if you guys saw Larry Brooks today, but he claims Bettman is trying to keep the Preds in N'ville and then further expand in Hamilton and Kansas City. We all know Brooks can be full of **** sometimes, and the NHL expanding is totally mind boggling.

You guys take this seriously?

It may happen. It sound's like a realistic thing. If Nashville can sell the tickets it needs, then K.C and Hamilton are very good places to expand(I don't know about K.C to be honest but Hamilton will be great place).

 

[Rob]

I've been hearing that for awhile. Bob McCowan has been all over it. Bettman promised the owners he would get them around $500million (can't remember the break down) for an expansion teams in KC and Las Vegas.

If this is true, the last thing the NHL needs to do is expand by two teams.

Yeah, I've heard McCowan talk about that as well. He also says that there isn't near that amount of money being offered. Perhaps Gary will have to bite the bullet and let an expanision team into Hamilton?

 

[Skk82]

Perhaps Gary will have to bite the bullet and let an expanision team into Hamilton?

Bettman isn't the biggest obstacle to another team in southern Ontario, Maple Leaf management (and, to a lesser extent, Buffalo) is.

If both clubs (but mainly Toronto) were paid a significant fee, maybe something could be worked out, but who knows.

 

[Choice]

I do agree with what Larry says in there though, expanding two more teams is one of the worst things the NHL could do. Especially in Kansas City.

 

[SkullSplitter]

They were saying the same thing when the Pens were on the verge of moving.

 

[SkullSplitter]

I'll be happy about 2 western expansion teams if the Columbus Blue Jackets can become an Eastern team. Heck they are a western team in the eastern time zone!

 

[Paincakes]

Fine with me.

Rather Winnipeg than KC though.

 

[Scoogs]

Too many Johnny's in this thread, if you ask me...

 

[Resolute]

1. Bettman does not dictate expansion. The board of governors do.

2. The league has been floating the expansion balloon for months, so Brooks is hardly offering any breaking news right now.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

1. Bettman does not dictate expansion. The board of governors do.

2. The league has been floating the expansion balloon for months, so Brooks is hardly offering any breaking news right now.

Yeah! What this guy said!

 

[Choice]

1. Bettman does not dictate expansion. The board of governors do.

2. The league has been floating the expansion balloon for months, so Brooks is hardly offering any breaking news right now.

If Bettman presents the board of governors with two expansion fees ($500 mill) or whatever it is, I'm sure they'll approve expansion.

 

[King RAZZ]

If they do expand to Las Vegas...I'm within a mile of where the new stadium is being built... It won't stop me from wearing my Kings jersey though...as they're the only team I'm willing to see...

 

[Valhoun*]

If they do expand to Las Vegas...I'm within a mile of where the new stadium is being built... It won't stop me from wearing my Kings jersey though...as they're the only team I'm willing to see...

One can never underestimate the vast drawing power and human season ticket machine that is Dan Cloutier.

 

[Bill_Crosby*]

Des'moines gets shafted again

 

[GSC2k2*]

I've been hearing that for awhile. Bob McCowan has been all over it. Bettman promised the owners he would get them around $500million (can't remember the break down) for an expansion teams in KC and Las Vegas.

If this is true, the last thing the NHL needs to do is expand by two teams.

McCown is completely full of crap. His sole source of information about all things NHL these days is Richard Rodier. Rodier is using him in a hamhanded effort to garner public support for JB's bid (as if it were some sort of public election); it's kind of sad, really.

He got that because Rodier told him that they raised their bid $18 million to cover off the lost expansion revenues that Leipold would be giving up, rather than they being the $18 million required to terminate the lease (which McCown cannot figure out for the life of him). Rodier told him that bull**** about the expansion fees because they require a cover story to hide the fact that their bid was always conditional.

McCown thinks NHL revenues are $2.7 billion. That should tell you all one needs to know about what McCown "knows". He has really gone off the deep end in discussing this whole topic.

 

[HankTheTank]

McCown thinks NHL revenues are $2.7 billion. That should tell you all one needs to know about what McCown "knows". He has really gone off the deep end in discussing this whole topic.

Just doing some quick math - 50 million / 0.54 * 30 teams .... that's just under 2.8 billion

 

[Trizent]

50m is the upper limit. not 54% of the revenues. I believe NHLPA now get 55% as well.

 

[Resolute]

If Bettman presents the board of governors with two expansion fees ($500 mill) or whatever it is, I'm sure they'll approve expansion.

Indeed. However, I very strongly doubt that Bettman awoke one morning and said "Lets expand!" then went and pitched it to the board. It is more likely he was tasked to see what the possibilities are.