HF Habs: Expansion Draft 2021

[Kudo Shinichi]

can't believe some of you guys would want to give away price for free... It would be an absolutely idiot thing to do.

 

[NobleSix]

Vegas was not given an undue head start. If they got forwards who can score 30 or more, it's because certain other GMs were total idiots.

Every team could protect their best goalie, their 7 best forwards and their 3 best defencemen. Furthermore, their 1 and 2 year pros didn't have to be protected, and on top of that their expiring UFAs who were ready to re-sign after the draft didn't have to be protected. And if a good team had both an 8th best forward and a 4th best defenceman available, they could only lose one of the two.

Give Vegas credit and most of the other GMs demerit points for how they valued scorers as opposed to generic "safe" players, and derision is appropriate toward the GMs who, faced with the prospect of losing one player, managed to give away one or two more.

Columbus PAID Vegas EXTRA to take the guy who became their 40 goal scorer, Nashville CHOSE to let go one of their top 3 goal-scorers, and Florida protected average guys while letting go their only 30 goal scorer and third top point getter (at age 25!!) because he was "too short", as if pucks that go in the net only count for a full goal if tall people score them. News flash: short people's goals DO NOT COUNT LESS!

Finally, Vegas didn't even get the first pick in the amateur draft, like expansion teams of old got.

Any GM who whines about what a free ride Vegas got should be fired.

They were given a much better start than any expansion team in history. That isnt really up for debate. Which is what I said. Nowhere did I say it was 'undue' or 'too much' that they were given a good start to begin with. Not sure why you felt you had to go on such a tangent there.

The only thing they didnt have a leg up on in comparison to other expansion teams is that they weren't given the 1st overall pick, but only 5 expansion teams were ever given the 1st overall pick. They were however, the only team picking in the expansion draft, and were also given good odds in the draft lottery, ending up with the 6th overall pick, in addition to very favourable expansion rules. That's a massive advantage. Not even the other two solo draft expansion teams; the Sharks (who were built almost entirely from the dispersion of the North Stars) or the Predators (who were picking from a much lesser pool of talent because of a much more stringent set of expansion draft rules and a smaller league), where given such a great start.

The expansion draft isnt for another couple of years anyway. Regardless of everything you just said, Vegas should be in the expansion draft, just like every other NHL team. They proved to be one of the better teams in the NHL last season. There's really no excuse for them not be in the draft IMO.

 

[dcal64]

I hope we lose a good player in the expansion draft, that means we have 11 players even better still on the team.
GMs learned from the Vegas mistakes, they will simply lose a player and be done with it.
The team that will gain the most from the expansion will be Vegas, they are exempt from the expansion draft, so they will be able to low ball teams that will be losing players.

Not if they do as you say and just brace for losing one player.

That's not what I am saying, teams will still try to trade players they know they will lose in the expansion draft before the draft, and what I am saying is that Vegas will be the prime beneficiary of this. What I said is the GMs will not make deals with Seattle, like they did with Vegas, they will simply lose a player.
Although I still see some teams trying to dump salaries to the new team, which will cost them.

 

[BaseballCoach]

That's not what I am saying, teams will still try to trade players they know they will lose in the expansion draft before the draft, and what I am saying is that Vegas will be the prime beneficiary of this. What I said is the GMs will not make deals with Seattle, like they did with Vegas, they will simply lose a player.
Although I still see some teams trying to dump salaries to the new team, which will cost them.

It's the same error. Each team will only lose one player in the expansion draft. Trading the player they think they will lose, unless it is for a superior return (which it rarely is unless you're trading with Marc Bergevin) just means you lose both the player you traded, plus another player, and get back only the small return you got on the player traded.

So you trade Beaulieu because you feel you will lose him, get back a player with just a 11% projected chance of playing 100 NHL games, and then lose Emelin too.

 

[dcal64]

It's the same error. Each team will only lose one player in the expansion draft. Trading the player they think they will lose, unless it is for a superior return (which it rarely is unless you're trading with Marc Bergevin) just means you lose both the player you traded, plus another player, and get back only the small return you got on the player traded.

So you trade Beaulieu because you feel you will lose him, get back a player with just a 11% projected chance of playing 100 NHL games, and then lose Emelin too.

Are you saying you wouldn't trade Emelin for a 3rd round pick? You are probably the only person who wouldn't do that trade.

 

[CupInSIX]

They were given a much better start than any expansion team in history. That isnt really up for debate. Which is what I said. Nowhere did I say it was 'undue' or 'too much' that they were given a good start to begin with. Not sure why you felt you had to go on such a tangent there.

The only thing they didnt have a leg up on in comparison to other expansion teams is that they weren't given the 1st overall pick, but only 5 expansion teams were ever given the 1st overall pick. They were however, the only team picking in the expansion draft, and were also given good odds in the draft lottery, ending up with the 6th overall pick, in addition to very favourable expansion rules. That's a massive advantage. Not even the other two solo draft expansion teams; the Sharks (who were built almost entirely from the dispersion of the North Stars) or the Predators (who were picking from a much lesser pool of talent because of a much more stringent set of expansion draft rules and a smaller league), where given such a great start.

The expansion draft isnt for another couple of years anyway. Regardless of everything you just said, Vegas should be in the expansion draft, just like every other NHL team. They proved to be one of the better teams in the NHL last season. There's really no excuse for them not be in the draft IMO.

They don't get a cut of the 650 million expansion fee. Why should they be in the draft?

People can complain all they like, in expansion every long established team must lose a player. The NHL, BOG, GMs all looked at expansion in a salary cap era with Unrestricted Free Agency at 27 years of age, and they decided on appropriate rules. Hence they charged the Foley group half a billion instead of something more reasonable like 250 million, which is around the value of the Coyotes.

It would be stupid to set up an expansion draft where the only players exposed are 25 or older. How are you going to build a team around pending UFAs?

As for the 2017 draft, it was the Hischier/Patrick draft. Give me a break.

 

[NobleSix]

They don't get a cut of the 650 million expansion fee. Why should they be in the draft?

Give them a cut then and put them in the expansion draft. They dont get a cut of the expansion fee because they've been exempt from the expansion draft, not the other way around. Theyre not exempt because they arent getting a cut. Not a very solid argument from you.

People can complain all they like, in expansion every team must lose a player. The NHL, BOG, GMs all looked at expansion in a salary cap era with Unrestricted Free Agency at 27 years of age, and they decided on appropriate rules. Hence they charged the Foley group half a billion instead of something more reasonable like 250 million, which is around the value of the Coyotes.

'People can complain all they like, in expansion every team must lose a player'

Uhhh yeah. That's what I'm arguing. You're the one arguing against that, suggesting Vegas shouldn't be a part of the expansion draft. They should lose a player just like every other team. That's my entire arguement. That's it.

It would be stupid to set up an expansion draft where the only players exposed are 25 or older. How are you going to build a team around pending UFAs?

What are you even talking about here. I never suggesting anything of the sort. You're going on a tangent here. I never mentioned the UFA age or not being allowed to take players under 25. I was referencing the specific selection rules of the most recent solo expansion drafts:

Expansion rules of the Nashville expansion draft: Teams could protect 1 goalie, 5 defensemen, and 9 forwards. Or, 2 goalies, 3 defensemen, and 7 forwards.

Expansion rules of the Vegas expansion draft: Teams could protect 1 goalie, 3 defensemen, and 7 forwards. Or, 2 goalies and 8 skaters.

Clearly more favourable for Vegas, and I'm pretty sure those rules have nothing to do with the UFA age being 27, and more to do with helping Vegas become more competitive. Which is fine. Not complaining about that at all, only pointing it out.

As for the 2017 draft, it was the Hischier/Patrick draft. Give me a break.

And? What does that have to do with literally anything at all? Nothing. They got Cody Glass at 6th overall. That's a pretty good pickup at 6 regardless of what label you want to put on that draft.

I'm not sure why you guys are even trying to argue that Vegas wasnt given the most favourable expansion situation in history. It's clearly the case. You can justify it all you want, it doesnt change anything. I'm not even complaining about it either. I'm just pointing out that that's exactly the case, and that they should surrender a player to the expansion draft.

Seattle should be given the same favourable situation, and should also be a part of any future expansion drafts as well.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Are you saying you wouldn't trade Emelin for a 3rd round pick? You are probably the only person who wouldn't do that trade.

I guess the stupidity was compounded by protecting Benn over Emelin and Beaulieu both.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Give them a cut then and put them in the expansion draft. They dont get a cut of the expansion fee because they've been exempt from the expansion draft, not the other way around. Theyre not exempt because they arent getting a cut. Not a very solid argument from you.

That's ridiculous!! The Governors decided that Vegas does not get a cut which would be $20,000,000. To be fair, the league does not make them lose a player.

It is not the way you suggest, that Vegas wanted to not lose a player, so the league made them pay $20,000,000 for the privilege.

LOL at valuing a #12 player on a team at $20,000,000.

 

[Miller Time]

Short of Price being Vezina form the next 2 seasons, there will be a strong case to leave him unprotected... both for him and for us.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Short of Price being Vezina form the next 2 seasons, there will be a strong case to leave him unprotected... both for him and for us.

Correct, if able to, given the NMC the genius gave out. When you have to lose one player, the best result is to lose a player whose cap hit was more than his value.

 

[Habssince89]

There's no reason Vegas can't afford to give up ONE player. It seems pretty obvious IMO how hard the NHL wants/wanted Vegas to be an instant contender to solidify a market untapped by the other major leagues.

It's naked favouritism to me.

 

[BaseballCoach]

There's no reason Vegas can't afford to give up ONE player. It seems pretty obvious IMO how hard the NHL wants/wanted Vegas to be an instant contender to solidify a market untapped by the other major leagues.

It's naked favouritism to me.

The league is not willing to let them share in the revenue from expansion. Each of the owners would rather have $600,000 than a 1 in 31 chance of getting their lost player (or equivalent) back on waivers.

 

[dcal64]

I guess the stupidity was compounded by protecting Benn over Emelin and Beaulieu both.

You would be the only person who at the time of expansion, would have protected Emelin and his bloated salary over Benn.

 

[Habssince89]

The league is not willing to let them share in the revenue from expansion. Each of the owners would rather have $600,000 than a 1 in 31 chance of getting their lost player (or equivalent) back on waivers.

Well I'm not surprised that they would look at money over the ''fairness" of the situation, doesn't change my opinion that it's annoying to change rules so soon after the last expansion

 

[CupInSIX]

Give them a cut then and put them in the expansion draft. They dont get a cut of the expansion fee because they've been exempt from the expansion draft, not the other way around. Theyre not exempt because they arent getting a cut. Not a very solid argument from you.



'People can complain all they like, in expansion every team must lose a player'

Uhhh yeah. That's what I'm arguing. You're the one arguing against that, suggesting Vegas shouldn't be a part of the expansion draft. They should lose a player just like every other team. That's my entire arguement. That's it.



What are you even talking about here. I never suggesting anything of the sort. You're going on a tangent here. I never mentioned the UFA age or not being allowed to take players under 25. I was referencing the specific selection rules of the most recent solo expansion drafts:

Expansion rules of the Nashville expansion draft: Teams could protect 1 goalie, 5 defensemen, and 9 forwards. Or, 2 goalies, 3 defensemen, and 7 forwards.

Expansion rules of the Vegas expansion draft: Teams could protect 1 goalie, 3 defensemen, and 7 forwards. Or, 2 goalies and 8 skaters.

Clearly more favourable for Vegas, and I'm pretty sure those rules have nothing to do with the UFA age being 27, and more to do with helping Vegas become more competitive. Which is fine. Not complaining about that at all, only pointing it out.



And? What does that have to do with literally anything at all? Nothing. They got Cody Glass at 6th overall. That's a pretty good pickup at 6 regardless of what label you want to put on that draft.

I'm not sure why you guys are even trying to argue that Vegas wasnt given the most favourable expansion situation in history. It's clearly the case. You can justify it all you want, it doesnt change anything. I'm not even complaining about it either. I'm just pointing out that that's exactly the case, and that they should surrender a player to the expansion draft.

Seattle should be given the same favourable situation, and should also be a part of any future expansion drafts as well.

Because if you actually knew what you were talking about, you'd know expansion teams aren't arbitrarily given a draft pick (see 1998 Lecavalier draft, where Nashville was given 3rd overall and traded up to 2ndOA). These quality of 1st and even 2nd over all talent are weighed heavily in expansion years. And thanks to the modern draft they were given 3rd best odds along with Arizona, but every other lottery team had decent odds and guess what happened - for the first time ever an expansion team had to draft outside the top 5 in their inaugural amateur draft.

They don't get a cut because the BOG don't want them to get a cut. Not to mention Columbus and Minnesota didn't get to select from Nashville or Atlanta.

And if you don't believe the salary cap, No Move Clauses and a much younger age of potential Unrestricted Free Agency affected modern expansion, you're out to lunch. But don't worry, you're in good company because like 95% of hfboards is confused about how the expansion draft went down.


Of course expansion is going to look different after what, 17 years?

 

[groovejuice]

It's interesting that both the NHL and NHLPA can opt out of the current CBA in Sept. 2019.

Makes me wonder if Seattle has a clause for reimbursement of some kind should that happen.

 

[groovejuice]

can't believe some of you guys would want to give away price for free... It would be an absolutely idiot thing to do.

I think most posters are thinking of a deal between the teams having assets going back to Montreal. It would obviously require Price's approval as well.

 

[Whitesnake]

We need to be proactive....not reactive...and find a way to ship out Petry. I really can't beleive we will have to protect him 'cause of his stupid NMC. He has to go.

 

[BaseballCoach]

You would be the only person who at the time of expansion, would have protected Emelin and his bloated salary over Benn.

FOr me, it was Beaulieu first, due to offensive potential, Emelin second due to hit physicality, and Benn third due to just being meh.

 

[montreal]

We need to be proactive....not reactive...and find a way to ship out Petry. I really can't beleive we will have to protect him 'cause of his stupid NMC. He has to go.

His NMC expired on July 1st 2018.

 

[SlyIslands]

Habs should not make trades before the expansion draft. Making a trade just leaves another player exposed. Price will be protected, if he gets claimed who will be the #1?

 

[BIG GIFS]

We always need good defensemen. Reilly's emergence is very important and I don't want Petry to be traded either. A core of Weber- Petry- Reilly- Mete- Juulsen has a lot of potential. Adding Brooks to this could eventually give us a solid D group for years to come. I like the balance of youth and veterans. I also think Petry will age well (at least solid level of play for 5 years imo). I also think Weber wil age well.

Unfortunately I doubt we can keep all of them with the expansion draft in the 2020 summer, it will be interesting to see who we keep.

 

[yianik]

We always need good defensemen. Reilly's emergence is very important and I don't want Petry to be traded either. A core of Weber- Petry- Reilly- Mete- Juulsen has a lot of potential. Adding Brooks to this could eventually give us a solid D group for years to come. I like the balance of youth and veterans. I also think Petry will age well (at least solid level of play for 5 years imo). I also think Weber wil age well.

Problem is you list 5 D players. Two have to be exposed at the Expansion Draft. Weber will not be exposed and Petry can provide a list of teams to which he cannot be traded.

The Expansion Draft will happen after next season, so 2 years of further development for the younger guys and we will see better what they bring.

Thing is, after this season I think teams will be eyeing the Expansion Draft a lot more closely and will be less willing to pay up for a player they will have to protect, or lose, and Petry will only have a year left anyway, so his value plummets.

Petry is a good D man, but we really do need to think about trading him at the TDL. The better Reilly, Mete and Juulsen do , the more we have to look at such a trade,

 

[Sam of Montreal]

Problem is you list 5 D players. Two have to be exposed at the Expansion Draft. Weber will not be exposed and Petry can provide a list of teams to which he cannot be traded.

The Expansion Draft will happen after next season, so 2 years of further development for the younger guys and we will see better what they bring.

Thing is, after this season I think teams will be eyeing the Expansion Draft a lot more closely and will be less willing to pay up for a player they will have to protect, or lose, and Petry will only have a year left anyway, so his value plummets.

Petry is a good D man, but we really do need to think about trading him at the TDL. The better Reilly, Mete and Juulsen do , the more we have to look at such a trade,

That's an interesting point. I must admit I haven't been thinking ahead to the expansion draft yet. On the other hand I also tend to agree with the poster who said that a lot can change in two years and it is not wise to base or decisions on this yet.

And final thought, maybe by losing one Day (let's say Petry) in expansion draft, we don't end up losing a valuable forward (idk, let's say Armia).

Not saying Atmos is better than Petry, but we will lose a player regardless. Trading guys away won't change this. Perhaps it's better to just build the best team and not overly worry about an expansion draft coming in two years.