Ex-teammate Rob Schremp calls out Tavares

[Motte and Bailey]

Your argument is being based on (1) your own personal opinion about Tavares' body language which apparently gives you insight into his character and (2) the Islanders' current record. I'm honestly not sure why you think your post warrants a thoughtful response, but I'll try to give it a little bit of effort anyway...

(1) I disagree with your opinon regarding Tavares' on-ice body language. I think his on-ice body language is super awesome and clearly points to him having exceptional character.
(2) Correlation =/= Causation... But if it did it might be worth pointing out the most successful stretch of seasons the Islanders have had in the past quarter century have come with Tavares being the face of the franchise.

Your bias is clearly showing. You left out the most important evidence which is the topic of this ENTIRE thread which is the expert testimony of Robert Schremp. THAT’S what this is all based on and the supporting evidence you mentioned that corroborates the testimony of the expert witness strengthens the validity of his testimony. I freely admit that, in isolation, the Islanders record and Tavares’ body language and his failure to lead the Islanders to any type of success in the past 10 years and the way he stabbed them in the back to go to Toronto don’t prove anything by themselves. But put them all together with Schremp’s expert eyewitness testimony and you’ve got an extremely strong case that gives warrant to Tavares being an “I did my job” kind of star which is not the kind of attitude you win with.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

Sorry I don't buy it. Tavares screwed over the Isles bigly. You can say he's free to do what he wants and that's all well and good... but he screwed them over. He did it in the worst possible way too because they got absolutely nothing for him in return.

That's on the Isles and noone else.
Maybe if they had done something in the previous 9 years to not be a dumpster fire. But once again... that's management's fault and not JTs

 

[Absolut]

Here's the thing about John Tavares. I don't think we're going to see another player do what he did for a very, very, very, very long time.

"What he did" being going over the top with the praise and the promises and the "I wanna be here" sunshine, then leave at the first opportunity. They'll shut their yams, communicate through their agents, and not pander to or placate their fanbase.

Columbus knows Panarin is a goner. Yet when they played my Isles in Columbus a few games ago I certainly didn't hear any boos whenever he touched the puck. He'll play for some other team and the resentment towards him will be but a minor blaze. And if Jarmo can swing an amazing return that sets Columbus up nicely in the long-term, that blaze might extinguish entirely.

Everyone will act like Panarin, Bob, Karlsson, Stone, and Duchene have this season.

It's not so much the reaction that Panarin gets per se in Columbus. It's this black cloud hanging over them all season. But still better than the NYI situation.

 

[MattMartin]

In hindsight I really believe that Trotz was the reason he left. John was probably thinking "this guy is going to expect me to play defense and not let me stay out for long shifts and this will hurt my point total". John also was like "my personal accomplishments>>>>>>>>> team success".

People thinking this team would be so much better with him are just clueless. We probably don't get Martin, Komarov, and Filppula who are true team players and bust their ass every night.

I'm pretty sure our PP would be better with JT and everything else worse.

 

[Motte and Bailey]

That's on the Isles and noone else.
Maybe if they had done something in the previous 9 years to not be a dumpster fire. But once again... that's management's fault and not JTs

This is victim blaming nonsense.

“The Isles deserved to get ****ed, just looked at who they dressed!”

The lack of success in Long Island, which you HAVE to hold Tavares partly responsible for, did not make it okay for him to mislead the Islanders GM and fans.

 

[Dr Quincy]

I think he did... and I think there are a lot of people out there who agree.

You don't and that's fine.

Even if he didn't know what he was going to do, he put the team in a terrible spot. And I don't think you can blame people for being upset with him about this.

Tavares had every right to do what he did.

And fans have every right to think it was a pretty selfish, sucky thing to do.

 

[Vaporwave]

That's on the Isles and noone else.
Maybe if they had done something in the previous 9 years to not be a dumpster fire. But once again... that's management's fault and not JTs

Keep calling recent 101, 100 point seasons and winning a round a dumpster fire

Been 7 years since TOR won a round lol.

and it must be tough watching a team many of you expected to be bottom 5 to be ahead of you this late in the season, with your shiny new acquisition and all of your high draft picks for being a true dumpster fire for so many years.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

In hindsight I really believe that Trotz was the reason he left. John was probably thinking "this guy is going to expect me to play defense and not let me stay out for long shifts and this will hurt my point total". John also was like "my personal accomplishments>>>>>>>>> team success".

People thinking this team would be so much better with him are just clueless. We probably don't get Martin, Komarov, and Filppula who are true team players and bust their ass every night.

I'm pretty sure our PP would be better with JT and everything else worse.

True, instead he chose to play for Babs who reduces minutes, punishes bad defensive play and runs crazy line-matching during games.

Last season: 19:56 TOI/G (3:10 PP)
This season: 19:07 TOI/G (2:42 PP)

 

[Vaporwave]

My calendar says its 2019.

Look up the word "ever".

I saw those 4 cups in a row. I doubt you saw TOR's last cup over 50 years ago lol.

 

[The Man with a Plan]

This is victim blaming nonsense.

“The Isles deserved to get ****ed, just looked at who they dressed!”

The lack of success in Long Island, which you HAVE to hold Tavares partly responsible for, did not make it okay for him to mislead the Islanders GM and fans.

So let's get this straight.
JT is being held responsible for the failure of management to properly build the team? He only lead them on and off ice in the most professional manner properly and led them in scoring. Guess he should have played D and strapped goalie pads on too.

Is it Connor McDavids fault the oilers management is a even bigger dumpster fire and have failed to build a team around him or in general for that matter? Lunacy

 

[Palio]

In hindsight I really believe that Trotz was the reason he left. John was probably thinking "this guy is going to expect me to play defense and not let me stay out for long shifts and this will hurt my point total". John also was like "my personal accomplishments>>>>>>>>> team success".

People thinking this team would be so much better with him are just clueless. We probably don't get Martin, Komarov, and Filppula who are true team players and bust their ass every night.

I'm pretty sure our PP would be better with JT and everything else worse.

I won’t even touch the first paragraph as I couldn’t disagree more. I’d just like to point out that he went to join a Mike Babcock led team. It would be pretty easy to look at the ice time he had given the other star players on the Leafs prior to him leaving and know that his ice time was going to decrease. And sure enough, he’s averaging the least TOI per game since his rookie season.

And come on. Don’t embarrass yourself and suggest that any team would choose Komoarov + Martin + Flippula over John Tavares

 

[Orfieus]

This is no different than a liar who thinks everyone is a liar
This is no different than a lazy person thinking everyone else is lazy

He probably saw JT doing something he sees himself doing and assumes JT is exactly like him. Honestly if you pretend the article is talking about Schremp you would say that is a good description of him

Nonsense from a nobody

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Here's the thing about John Tavares. I don't think we're going to see another player do what he did for a very, very, very, very long time.

"What he did" being going over the top with the praise and the promises and the "I wanna be here" sunshine, then leave at the first opportunity. They'll shut their yams, communicate through their agents, and not pander to or placate their fanbase.

Columbus knows Panarin is a goner. Yet when they played my Isles in Columbus a few games ago I certainly didn't hear any boos whenever he touched the puck. He'll play for some other team and the resentment towards him will be but a minor blaze. And if Jarmo can swing an amazing return that sets Columbus up nicely in the long-term, that blaze might extinguish entirely.

Everyone will act like Panarin, Bob, Karlsson, Stone, and Duchene have this season.

I mean that is fair and there is probably truth to a lot of what you said but there is a common difference between Tavares and every single players you listed(Except Stone) they weren't drafted and developed by the teams that they could be leaving. I think personally a big reason that doesn't get talked about is that the break off with Tavares has been so intense because the fanbase was so attached to him beforehand. What reason would Sharks fans have to boo Karlsson for leaving in free agency after spending 1 season in San Jose? I completely understand Islander fans emotions with Tavares even if I think the specific reasoning's the fanbase has conjured up to be slightly ridiculous.

 

[Cleatus]

In hindsight I really believe that Trotz was the reason he left. John was probably thinking "this guy is going to expect me to play defense and not let me stay out for long shifts and this will hurt my point total". John also was like "my personal accomplishments>>>>>>>>> team success".

People thinking this team would be so much better with him are just clueless. We probably don't get Martin, Komarov, and Filppula who are true team players and bust their ass every night.

I'm pretty sure our PP would be better with JT and everything else worse.

Such speculative nonsense, holy crap. You're definitely not the type who should be calling anyone clueless.

 

[YearlyLottery]

I find some of the replies funny here. Tavares could be the biggest asshole in the world, why would fans care if he helps them win? It is quite obvious how he handled the Isles situation he can easily act like an asshole and these latest comments certainly reaffirm that viewpoint.

 

[Jozay]

Look up the word "ever".

I saw those 4 cups in a row. I doubt you saw TOR's last cup over 50 years ago lol.

When did I ever say "ever"?

 

[ForumNamePending]

Your bias is clearly showing...

...But put them all together with Schremp’s expert eyewitness testimony and you’ve got an extremely strong case that gives warrant to Tavares being an “I did my job” kind of star which is not the kind of attitude you win with.

1) Expert Testimony - As I said earlier in the thread dismissing Schremp outright because he washed out of the NHL is stupid, but referring to his tweet as "expert testimony" because he played with a teenage Tavares nearly a decade ago doesn't seem ideal either.

2) Body Language - Your opinion regarding his body language being poor is offset by my opinion of his body language being not just awesome, but super-awesome. Agree to disagree I guess.

3) Failure To Lead the Islanders to Any Type Of Success - I dunno... With Tavares as the face of the franchise the Islanders had their first 100 point regular seasons since the mid 80s (long before Tavares was born) and won their first playoff series since the early 90s (when Tavares would have been potty training). It's fair to say the Islanders didn't have a ton of success with Tavares, but one player can polish a turd only so much. The Islanders, from top to bottom, weren't exactly a model franchise the previous decade or two before Tavares arrived.

4) Regarding Tavares stabbing the Islanders in the back... I think Palio has been covering this angle pretty well. Besides, if Tavares is as bad as you say, shouldn't the Islanders be happy he bolted?

 

[CodeE]

I mean that is fair and there is probably truth to a lot of what you said but there is a common difference between Tavares and every single players you listed(Except Stone) they weren't drafted and developed by the teams that they could be leaving. I think personally a big reason that doesn't get talked about is that the break off with Tavares has been so intense because the fanbase was so attached to him beforehand. What reason would Sharks fans have to boo Karlsson for leaving in free agency after spending 1 season in San Jose? I completely understand Islander fans emotions with Tavares even if I think the specific reasoning's the fanbase has conjured up to be slightly ridiculous.

Karlsson was drafted, developed, and the captain of the Senators so he should count as an example as well. They simply cashed out and got what Dorion could get from the Sharks.

 

[MattMartin]

I won’t even touch the first paragraph as I couldn’t disagree more. I’d just like to point out that he went to join a Mike Babcock led team. It would be pretty easy to look at the ice time he had given the other star players on the Leafs prior to him leaving and know that his ice time was going to decrease. And sure enough, he’s averaging the least TOI per game since his rookie season.

And come on. Don’t embarrass yourself and suggest that any team would choose Komoarov + Martin + Flippula over John Tavares

Probably not, but......


This season without JT after 58 games, currently in 1st place in the Metro and 4th overall in the NHL.

GP	W	L	OTL	PTS	ROW
58​	35​	17​	6​	76​	32​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Last year with JT, 7th in the Metro and 21st overall in the NHL.

GP	W	L	OTL	PTS	ROW
58​	27​	25​	6​	60​	24​

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Another stat that might surprise you.

In 13/14 Tavares was injured during the Olympics and here was the Islanders record with him and without him...

With him
22-30-8

Without him
10-7-3





So the fact remains that, team>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>individual.

JT was holding the team back all these years, not the other way around if we go by numbers.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Karlsson was drafted, developed, and the captain of the Senators so he should count as an example as well. They simply cashed out and got what Dorion could get from the Sharks.

I mean I thought we were talking about this seasons free agents....Anyways doesn't really change my point.

 

[Jozay]

Aufheben said legit best season ever in the same post that I quoted you both in on page 12, which you saw and said it's 2019.

I wouldn't bring up hockey history if I was a Leaf fan...

So quote him, why are you quoting me?

I said I wanna see what the Islanders accomplish anything without JT (implying what they accomplish in the FUTURE). He said they're having one the best seasons they've ever had, I said I figured they would hold onto regular season accomplishments, implying that they wont win shit in the playoffs going forward.

Then you quoted me talking about the 1980's like it had anything to do with my posts.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

How do you even reply to this with a straight face?

 

[RobBrown4PM]

If I'm the Isles front office I'm phoning Shrimp and telling him to shut up.

The isles are doing good this year, the last thing they need is some idiot derailing them from their momentum with a ton of high school drama shit.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

If he had pretty good teammates than why did they fail to show it when he was there, and why are they statistically regressing now that he's not? A team record is a reflection of team play, individual players rarely if ever are responsible for wins and losses, they are a single cog of a greater dynamic, often of which the goaltender plays a crucial part.

Goaltending is an amazing thing.

Perhaps Tavares is not the player that elevates his teammates and his team? IE. Bailey and Lee are doing just fine. As well as the entire Isles team. As part of a team with better players as he was on Team Canada, he is successful. As the best player on the team he is not. Sort of reminds me of Kessel. Good player, but not a franchise caliber one. The Isles do not miss him, infact they are better without him. Same can be said for Kessel when he left the Leafs. Shremp was spot on in his analysis.

 

[zoA]

This thread is both hilarious and terrifying lol. Some of you need to move on; talking about expert witnesses and such. It’s just hockey, it’s not the love of your life cheating on you or something.