Evgeni Malkin vs Bryan Trottier

[slapKing]

Two all time great centers, but between these two, who is the greater player? I feel this is an interesting player vs player comparison.

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[ScaredStreit]

Biased Islander fan voting Trottier. Best forward on arguably the best dynasty in history (yes he was better than Bossy), one of the best defensive forwards who was capable of winning the Art Ross, 6 cups, similar individual hardware.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Biased Islander fan voting Trottier. Best forward on arguably the best dynasty in history (yes he was better than Bossy), one of the best defensive forwards who was capable of winning the Art Ross, 6 cups, similar individual hardware.

The tricky part is quantifying how much playing in the 80's and playing on such a stacked team, on a line with arguably the best shooter of all time, impacted Trottier's offensive production. Because Trottier certainly had the edge defensively over Malkin, but was Malkin superior offensively when you take those things into account?

 

[bobholly39]

That's an interesting comparison. Peak could go either way honestly, both strong.
Prime probably edge to Trottier, with better health and more full seasons, and hence the better resume.

But Trottier had a pretty steep decline. Malkin at age 33 was on pace for 110 points in a full season last year. At age 33, Trottier paced for 33 points in a full season.

I'd probably give Trottier the edge all-time as of today - but I could see that changing by the time Malkin retires.

 

[SouthWest]

I think Trottier is one of the more underrated players in history , but I'm still taking Malkin. It is closer than people (modern fans) would think.

 

[Nathaniel Skywalker]

Malkin

 

[ScaredStreit]

The tricky part is quantifying how much playing in the 80's and playing on such a stacked team, on a line with arguably the best shooter of all time, impacted Trottier's offensive production. Because Trottier certainly had the edge defensively over Malkin, but was Malkin superior offensively when you take those things into account?

Playing with Bossy obviously helps Trottier (it would have helped anybody), but from 78-86 (his years with Bossy before Bossy's shortened year and retirement) Bossy was 2nd in NHL scoring and Trottier was 4th so it's not like Trottier wasn't able to carry his own weight offensively.

I think Trottier and Malkin are close offensively, which is why I think Trottier was better since he was the better defensive player. Very close players though there's really not a wrong choice here imo.

 

[Mitch nylander]

Awards/Honours list

Malkin	Trottier
Art Rosses	2	1
Hart Trophies	1	1
Pearsons/Lindseys	1	0
Conn Smythes	1	1
Calder Trophy	1	1
1st All Star Team	3	2
Stanley Cups	3	6
Total:	12	12

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Stats wise

	Malkin	Trottier
Top 3 goal finishes	1	0
Top 10 goal finishes	3	3
Top 3 assists finishes	2	2
Top 10 assists finishes	4	8
Top 3 point finishes	3	2
Top 10 point finishes	4	6
Top 10 PPG seasons	10	6
Total	27	27

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

This is an extremely even poll. Good work OP. I think Trottier provides more defensively while, Malkin will surpass him offensively. This is extremely tight, however I chose Malkin, as I believe he is ranked considerably higher amongst players within his decade (3rd best of the 2010s) in comparison to Trottier (5th/6th best of the 1980s).

 

[Gurglesons]

Going Malkin, based on how he is trending.

 

[Iapyi]

To me this isn't even close. Trottier was the consummate two-way 200' player something that even Malkins biggest fanboys wouldn't claim. Frankly this is a terrible comparable but I don't expect the young uns on this forum to understand this.

A team of Trottiers would sweep a team of Malkins 9.7 out of 10 times.

 

[member 157595]

That's an interesting comparison. Peak could go either way honestly, both strong.
Prime probably edge to Trottier, with better health and more full seasons, and hence the better resume.

But Trottier had a pretty steep decline. Malkin at age 33 was on pace for 110 points in a full season last year. At age 33, Trottier paced for 33 points in a full season.

I'd probably give Trottier the edge all-time as of today - but I could see that changing by the time Malkin retires.

The only thing I question in your post is the peak; peak Malkin is honestly one of the best players I've ever seen. Malkin at his absolute best was basically unstoppable.

 

[SotasicA]

The top line center of the greatest dynasty in hockey, in my lifetime. And really, the last true TRUE dynasty. 4 consecutive Cups.

 

[SotasicA]

Biased Islander fan voting Trottier. Best forward on arguably the best dynasty in history (yes he was better than Bossy), one of the best defensive forwards who was capable of winning the Art Ross, 6 cups, similar individual hardware.

Trottier absolutely was a major force both ways. Ahead of his time, think Yzerman when he became a "complete" player.

Malkin is just points and no substance.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Here's a way of looking at their Hart trophy voting results. Trottier faced tougher competition in the sense that he finished behind peak Gretzky several times. Malkin faced tougher competition in the sense that he faced significantly more European players.

So, if we ignore Gretzky, and ignore European players, here's what their rankings for the Hart trophy look like:

Trottier - 1st (1979), 1st (1982), 2nd (1978), 2nd, (1984), 4th (1981)
Malkin - 1st (2008), 1st (2009), 1st (2012), 5th (2018), 6th (2020)

Very close. Doing the same thing for points (top ten only):

Trottier - 1st (1979), 2nd (1978), 3rd (1982), 5th (1980), 5th (1984), T-9th (1981)
Malkin - 1st (2008), 1st (2009), 1st (2012), 3rd (2018), 9th (2020), T-9th (2017)

I voted for Trottier. Malkin was a bit better offensively. Both were among the very best playoff performers of their generation. But Trottier was far better defensively (probably explaining why he did better in Hart voting despite being not quite as good offensively) and has a huge edge in longevity (Malkin could narrow that gap, but I'll give him credit for doing that when it actually happens). Trottier was more consistent year to year during his prime, but his offense fell of a cliff at age 32; Malkin looks better in per-game rankings but routinely missed 10-20 games per season.

So if the question is who should rank higher today, for those reasons, it has to be Trottier. If the question is who will rank higher by the time Malkin's career is finished - it's debatable. I'd still lean towards Trottier because of how frequently Malkin misses time, but maybe he can prove me wrong.

 

[Iapyi]

The thing about giving kudos to Malkin for being "better" offensively is that offence is all he cares about most/virtually all of the time. Trottier is a guy who would worry more about team results.

Hockey is a team game.

 

[Gurglesons]

The thing about giving kudos to Malkin for being "better" offensively is that offence is all he cares about most/virtually all of the time. Trottier is a guy who would worry more about team results.

Hockey is a team game.

Malkin has been asked to play that role on his team. He's not really an issue defensively when it has mattered.

 

[ScaredStreit]

Malkin has been asked to play that role on his team. He's not really an issue defensively when it has mattered.

There's a difference between not being an issue defensively an being one of the best defensive forwards.

 

[Gurglesons]

There's a difference between not being an issue defensively an being one of the best defensive forwards.

Was the Selke not around in 1981?

 

[ScaredStreit]

Was the Selke not around in 1981?

It was but people voted on it very differently than they do today. Today votes are predominately for the best two-way forward rather than what it's designed to be (the best defensive forward).

It's why in 81 of the top 5 vote getters the highest scorer was 31st in the league and none of the other 4 were 99th or lower in scoring. In 2020 just one player was out of the top 100 in scoring and the other 4 were 50th or better.

If you're really trying to argue that Malkin is Trottier's peer defensively...I really don't know how you could do so tbh.

 

[SotasicA]

Was the Selke not around in 1981?

He was too good offensively to be considered a defensive forward.

He'd win every year with today's criteria.

 

[Gurglesons]

It was but people voted on it very differently than they do today. Today votes are predominately for the best two-way forward rather than what it's designed to be (the best defensive forward).
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It's why in 81 of the top 5 vote getters the highest scorer was 31st in the league and none of the other 4 were 99th or lower in scoring. In 2020 just one player was out of the top 100 in scoring and the other 4 were 50th or better.

If you're really trying to argue that Malkin is Trottier's peer defensively...I really don't know how you could do so tbh.

I'm not. I just think saying Malkin is offensive only is the kind of stupid narrative that gets him off the Top 100. Malkin and Trottier through their careers at their ages are pretty similar in terms of their impacts.

Malkin also is still an elite center in the league versus what Trottier was when he was 33. Not to discount what Trottier brought to those Pens squads following that season.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Trotter was done as an offensive player by 32. It's already clear Malkin has better longevity

 

[ScaredStreit]

I'm not. I just think saying Malkin is offensive only is the kind of stupid narrative that gets him off the Top 100. Malkin and Trottier through their careers at their ages are pretty similar in terms of their impacts.

Malkin also is still an elite center in the league versus what Trottier was when he was 33. Not to discount what Trottier brought to those Pens squads following that season.

Completely agree then and for the record I'd have both Malkin and Trottier top 100 all time. I don't think Malkin is bad defensively or anything just saying at his peak he wasn't as good defensively as Trottier in his. Malkin has aged better, like many of his peers compared to Trottier's, and Trottier on Pittsburgh clearly wasn't elite anymore (he still did contribute to the team, mainly leadership and experience). During Trottier's peak and prime though he's around the same level as Malkin: one of the best in the league and at times the best.

 

[Gurglesons]

Completely agree then and for the record I'd have both Malkin and Trottier top 100 all time. I don't think Malkin is bad defensively or anything just saying at his peak he wasn't as good defensively as Trottier in his. Malkin has aged better, like many of his peers compared to Trottier's, and Trottier on Pittsburgh clearly wasn't elite anymore (he still did contribute to the team, mainly leadership and experience). During Trottier's peak and prime though he's around the same level as Malkin: one of the best in the league and at times the best.

Agreed. Depends how highly you rate defensive impact and the longevity on this thread.

 

[Iapyi]

Malkin has been asked to play that role on his team. He's not really an issue defensively when it has mattered.

Besides his below average and lackadaisical defensive play [which is too bad because I presume he could do better] he is always at the top or close to it for giveaways.

Bottom line is that Trottier is just an out and out superior player, at least based on how I view hockey.

Frankly I'm not surprised at the poll totals and I would venture to say a huge majority of the posters voting for Malkin probably don't even know who Trottier is let alone ever seen him play for even one minute.