Everyone who thinks everything is so great in NFL-land....

Discussion in 'Fugu's Business of Hockey Forum' started by GKJ, Dec 15, 2004.

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  1. GKJ

    GKJ Global Moderator

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    ....hold on to your hats.


    Jay Glazers was just on TV and the NFL's last 4 CBA discussions were cancelled and Paul Taglibue "is over here with something" and Gene Upshaw "is over here with something"
     
  2. Gene Upshaw still wants a salary cap and is scared the players might loose it. I think all he wants is some other revenue source to be included in the % to players that is all. NFL will still be the best run league for years to come.
     
  3. All NHL/NFL comparisoms are irrelevant.

    If there were only one league that didn't need a cap, it would be the NFL.

    Pointing to their cap and siting it as a reason for the league's success is pure, unadultered folly.

    Success is owed to this and this only: America's love for football, American's dedication to watching football, American business' willingness to spend tons of cash on advertisements during NFL football broadcasts.
     
  4. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    No, the NFL's *profits* are owed to all that.

    If most of the NFL's incomed dried up, the league is *still* successful.
     
  5. John Flyers Fan

    John Flyers Fan Registered User

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    :handclap: :handclap: :handclap:

    Couldn't agree more. Each team receives $75+ million each year from the national TV revenue. That check alone covers all players salaries.
     
  6. Sinurgy

    Sinurgy Rebuilding

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    To say those are the only reasons would be a perfect example of as you say, pure unadultered folly. Certainly the NFL's success is not solely because it employs a cap, there are many many factors but I think it's safe to say the cap has been good for it. Also keep in mind, the NFL was not always America's first love as far as sports go. Baseball used to be dominate but somewhere it lost favor, the NFL took over and hasn't looked back since.

    Right now I'd be happy just to see the NHL get back to being one of the 4 major sports and while there is much to do, getting a more equitable economic system in place (whether it be a cap or stiff luxury tax) would be a good start.
     
  7. Doc Hollywood

    Doc Hollywood Registered User

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    Exactly. Their 2.2 billion tv contract basically pays for player salaries. What's the NHL TV revenue? 180 million or so? Doesn't help when tv ratings have dropped drastically in the NHL.
     
  8. thinkwild

    thinkwild Veni Vidi Toga

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    The NFL model is revenue sharing.
     
  9. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    Like I said in another thread, the NFL's TV contract alone makes every franchise a "big market". The cap isn't there to ensure profit, its there to ensure talent is spread around. Otherwise any team has the money to sign every free agent every year.
     
  10. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    One (of many) reason the NFL is so popular - and thus has such a big TV contract -is its competitiveness. Most teams have a shot at the playoffs when training camp opens. Those that don't work under a system in which they're only one good offseason away from competing for a championship, barring disastrous management.
    No doubt football's been big in the US since the late 50s, but its popularity has soared in the last decade because of the level playing field established under the CBA.
     
  11. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    I would say the NFL remains popular in spite of its artifcial, imposed mediocrity.

    I give you Exhibit "A", the Detroit Lions. They sell out every game, never compete, and people come back again and again. They will never win, every Lion fan I know realizes they will never win, yet they still support the team.
     
  12. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Um, no. Just as in every professional sports league, some NFL teams make more than others. Market forces, for example, allow the Giants to charge $67 per ticket on average, while Jacksonville sells tickets for an average $40 each. Multiply that by 70,000 seats and 10 games (including pre-season) and that's about $19 million a year in the Giants pockets. That doesn't even take into consideration the differences in luxury box sales, parking, concessions, sponsorships, etc.
    So, in an uncapped system, the Giants would become the Yankees, outbidding most other teams for the most desirable players. This, as market forces dictate, would drive up all other salaries to the point that small-market teams could be profitable or competitive, but rarely both.
     
  13. The NFL has absolutely crushed the NFLPA in all past labour disputes. They brought replacements in and a large number of players joined them in playing the games. The players would be foolish to try them again.
     
  14. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    Uh, no. The NFL's TV contract makes each team profitable before a single ticket is sold. And revenues are shared extensively, eliminating any other disparities.
     
  15. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Actually, in the decade of the NFL's "salary cap era", the Lions have had four winning seasons and a .500 season. So, I'm not sure I'd say they "never" win .
     
  16. Amen to that. There's 82 games a season, as long as every home game is televised there will be a following. The hockey needs to be there for people to follow it, if it's not there noone cares and noone misses it. I mean if it's a toss up between people voting for a chance to make themselves look dumb, celebrities eating goat testacles, or your hometown hockey team...i think we know what's going to get picked.

    That's a crock and you know it. 96-Florida Panthers/Finalist, 02-Carolina/Finalist,
    03-Anaheim/Finalists, 04-Tampa Bay/Champs. These are some of the smallest markets in the league and recently there has been an outbreak of talent in those cities. Enough talent to make a run at the cup.
     
  17. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    And in the decade of the NHL's last CBA, Edomonton had 7 .500 or better seasons. So if the Lions have been competitive, then so have the Oilers.

    And just for reference, the Lions averaged 6 wins a year in the decade before the cap, and 6 wins a year in the decade after.
     
  18. The players know full well that if they dont accept the cap in the NFL, the owners will just sit back and sign them to small contracts, which owner wouldnt want to pocket $75million, while fielding a average team.

    LIke the awesome proposal stated, when revenues grow so does salary and average salary within years the players will be back at a 45 million payroll range system. Once the NHL can land a TV contract that will boost there share also, they should take it now before its too late. Revenues will be lost, fans will be lost, and there share will be smaller then CFL wages. GO OWNERS GO, CRUSH EM UNCLE BETTMAN AND HARLEY.
     
  19. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Well, you're changing your original post (which said TV revenues 'alone' guaranteed profitability) if you want to inject revenue sharing into the formula.

    Regardless, you're incorrect in stating that each team is profitbale before a single ticket is sold. The current TV contract pays each team about $80 million this year. The salary cap this year is $80.5 million. While not every team hits that exact number, it's close enough to call it even. However, now add in salaries for coaches, scouts, personnel people, secretaries and everyone else needed to run a multi-million dollar business. Now add in the cost of renting an airplane for a couple hundred people about 10 weeks a year for travel. Now add in all the other travel costs, the cost of renting a training camp facility, medical costs, benefits, equipment, etc., etc.

    But back to the original point - it's undeniable that some teams do make more than others and without a cap those teams - as they do in uncapped leagues - will use that advantage to make themselves better on the field of play.
     
  20. CarlRacki

    CarlRacki Registered User

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    Interestingly enough, two of the teams you list didn't make the playoffs the following year. The Panthers were out in the first round the following year and have only been back to the playoffs one time since. Why? Because they were one-year wonders that lacked the financial resources to stay competitive on a consistent basis.
    In the meanwhile, the great majority of the big spenders - Toronto, Philly, Dallas, Detroit, Colorado, etc. - are playoff regulars.
    But I'm sure that's just coincidence.
     
  21. YellHockey*

    YellHockey* Guest

    You forgot one factor - the point spread. Football is the perfect sport for gambling and Americans love to gamble.

    Hockey, with ties, is not as condusive for gambling. But shootouts can fix that. Anyone think the owners want shootouts to make it easier to gamble on games?
     
  22. thinkwild

    thinkwild Veni Vidi Toga

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    The goal isnt to be a playoff regular, its to develop an elite team that can win a cup.

    There are lots of downsides to the NFL cap. ProFootball Weekly on NFL cap problems makes some good points.


    Here's a good link comparing MLB and NFL.
    Why the NFL is different from Hockey and Baseball
     
  23. PecaFan

    PecaFan Registered User

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    I knew before I even clicked that that it was at least four years old.

    And for the millionth time on here, I will point out that an NHLPA supporter has *again* provided proof that caps don't work.

    "Clubs have learned how to circumvent the intent of the salary cap, making it a farce."

    "In practice, of course, the salary cap has been shot full of holes, almost as many holes as the NBA’s cap."

    So I'll ask again, and no one can ever give an answer:

    Since caps don't prevent the highest paid players from raking in the big bucks, and caps don't work, and rich stupid owners circumvent them all the time, then why is the NHLPA flushing at least a billion dollars in salary down the toilet to fight one?
     
  24. Epsilon

    Epsilon #basta

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    Which is fairly pathetic for a team which possessed arguably the most talented player of all time.
     
  25. hockeytown9321

    hockeytown9321 Registered User

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    And its undeniable that no team struggles to make a profit, nor would they if there were no cap. There's no Nashville in the NFL generating $60 million or more less in revenue than the Red Wings. And if there were, that would be offset by the NFL's massive revenue sharing.

    The fact remains that the NFL has no small market teams, thus their cap is not in place to protect any. This makes its goal different from the NHL's.
     
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