Player Discussion Evan Bouchard: One for the Money, Two for the Bouch

[Aerchon]

Very poor choice of wording on your part.

While I certainly can agree that my statement is easily twisted because it was poorly worded that shouldn't excuse someone adding in what was insinuated.

Two wrongs do not make it right.

I have since updated my post to more accurately express my intent. It is now the purely hockey post it was meant to be and can not be interpreted in a way that allows others to attack me personally.

 

[Aerchon]

I’m a bit torn on the idea of the Oilers re-signing Green. On paper, I have little tolerance for old guys that can’t skate anymore. Green seemed more effective than I thought he’d be, but there’s no doubt the wheels aren’t round anymore. That said, I love the idea of having a veteran defenseman around who once put up the gaudy offensive numbers Green did. We’ve got 3 young D men with some untapped offensive potential in Bouchard, Bear, and Jones and it’d be nice to have Green sharing his knowledge with them. If he plays 40 games next year on the bottom pairing as we break in Bouchard that wouldn’t be the worst thing. So long as the contract is appropriately priced, of course.

While this is the perfect and most sensible middle ground I would hate to see us move Russell out to save cap just to spend any of those savings on a defender of Greens quality.

If we really need a vet presence just keep Russell. While many don't like him, I personally don't see how you can rationalize that Russell isn't the superior player right now.

Especially with Bouchard waiting in the wings on top of that. What little Russell doesn't do better Green is easily surpassed by just bringing in Bouchard.

The only reason I was not too upset at the acquisition in the first place was because it kept Bouchards contract firmly away from the nhl so it could slide.

 

[Geardedandbearded]

While this is the perfect and most sensible middle ground I would hate to see us move Russell out to save cap just to spend any of those savings on a defender of Greens quality.

If we really need a vet presence just keep Russell. While many don't like him, I personally don't see how you can rationalize that Russell isn't the superior player right now.

Especially with Bouchard waiting in the wings on top of that. What little Russell doesn't do better Green is easily surpassed by just bringing in Bouchard.

The only reason I was not too upset at the acquisition in the first place was because it kept Bouchards contract firmly away from the nhl so it could slide.

Green may be a better mentor and aid with getting a better Bouchard in the long run. Or at least help him be able to be an impact faster. All I know is I’d rather have green telling Bouchard some offensive tricks in the nhl than Russell lol

 

[BudBundy]

While this is the perfect and most sensible middle ground I would hate to see us move Russell out to save cap just to spend any of those savings on a defender of Greens quality.

If we really need a vet presence just keep Russell. While many don't like him, I personally don't see how you can rationalize that Russell isn't the superior player right now.

Especially with Bouchard waiting in the wings on top of that. What little Russell doesn't do better Green is easily surpassed by just bringing in Bouchard.

The only reason I was not too upset at the acquisition in the first place was because it kept Bouchards contract firmly away from the nhl so it could slide.

If I thought Russell had anything to teach an offensive defenseman, I’d agree. Dump Russell’s cap and re-sign Green for $1.5 or so?

 

[Bryanbryoil]

I’m a bit torn on the idea of the Oilers re-signing Green. On paper, I have little tolerance for old guys that can’t skate anymore. Green seemed more effective than I thought he’d be, but there’s no doubt the wheels aren’t round anymore. That said, I love the idea of having a veteran defenseman around who once put up the gaudy offensive numbers Green did. We’ve got 3 young D men with some untapped offensive potential in Bouchard, Bear, and Jones and it’d be nice to have Green sharing his knowledge with them. If he plays 40 games next year on the bottom pairing as we break in Bouchard that wouldn’t be the worst thing. So long as the contract is appropriately priced, of course.

I didn't see an issue in his skating TBH but his recent injury history has been pretty rough and obviously he barely suited up for us. I think that he could be a good mentor for Bouchard much like Oates was for Horcoff and Stoll back in the day.

 

[Aerchon]

If I thought Russell had anything to teach an offensive defenseman, I’d agree. Dump Russell’s cap and re-sign Green for $1.5 or so?

I like the idea of Green teaching Bouchard some offense and agree Russell really couldn't teach Bouchard much of anything. Russells style is unorthodox to say the least.

But he is effective despite the analytics suggesting otherwise. Far more than Green imo.

I thought Greens skating terrible. His defense atrocious. While Green could mentor some offense he could also provide bad habits as well.

I'd rather just walk away from Green period. I just don't think he can help an nhl team anymore period. I'd not risk team success for mentorship.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

While this is the perfect and most sensible middle ground I would hate to see us move Russell out to save cap just to spend any of those savings on a defender of Greens quality.

If we really need a vet presence just keep Russell. While many don't like him, I personally don't see how you can rationalize that Russell isn't the superior player right now.

Especially with Bouchard waiting in the wings on top of that. What little Russell doesn't do better Green is easily surpassed by just bringing in Bouchard.

The only reason I was not too upset at the acquisition in the first place was because it kept Bouchards contract firmly away from the nhl so it could slide.

Personally I don't mind the idea of bringing Green back, if he's willing to sign on the cheap to be the #7 (say something in and around 1.75) . Having him and Lagesson as the PB defencemen would be solid depth.

Klefbom-Larrson
Nurse-Bear
Jones-Bouchard
Lagesson, Green


Move Benning and/or Russell for an overpaid, but decent #3, and that wraps up the last hole on the roster.

A new 1B in goal would also be nice, but I think you can take to the UFA market to solve that one at a reasonable price with Greiss, Crowford, Howard, Halak, and Khudobin all UFA. If not UFA, guys like Allen or Reimer wouldn't require much more than a song and dance to acquire too.

 

[Aerchon]

Personally I don't mind the idea of bringing Green back, if he's willing to sign on the cheap to be the #7 (say something in and around 1.75) . Having him and Lagesson as the PB defencemen would be solid depth.

Klefbom-Larrson
Nurse-Bear
Jones-Bouchard
Lagesson, Green


Move Benning and/or Russell for an overpaid, but decent #3, and that wraps up the last hole on the roster.

A new 1B in goal would also be nice, but I think you can take to the UFA market to solve that one at a reasonable price with Greiss, Crowford, Howard, Halak, and Khudobin all UFA. If not UFA, guys like Allen or Reimer wouldn't require much more than a song and dance to acquire too.

I would prefer keeping Benning. He is really only a bottom pairing guy but he is very good in that role, is relatively cheap, and still an RFA.

There is no question in my mind that either Russell or Benning are far superior defensemen to Green. Injuries, especially to defensemen, seem too common to have Green as even as a replacement. Lose one guy for a season and Green plays 40+ games getting exposed in every one of those. Lose two guys and Green couldn't even be relied upon to survive a full season at his age/abilities.

Clear Russell out for help in net and run with.

Klefbom Larsson
Nurse Bear
Jones Bouchard
Laggesson Benning

A far younger better group that allows more flexibility.

More money for a goalie as well.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I would prefer keeping Benning. He is really only a bottom pairing guy but he is very good in that role, is relatively cheap, and still an RFA.

There is no question in my mind that either Russell or Benning are far superior defensemen to Green. Injuries, especially to defensemen, seem too common to have Green as even as a replacement. Lose one guy for a season and Green plays 40+ games getting exposed in every one of those. Lose two guys and Green couldn't even be relied upon to survive a full season at his age/abilities.

Clear Russell out for help in net and run with.

Klefbom Larsson
Nurse Bear
Jones Bouchard
Laggesson Benning

A far younger better group that allows more flexibility.

More money for a goalie as well.

You have an obvious bias against Green and it's pretty apparent. Russel and Benning are not far superior to Green, especially not when you consider the Oilers need better transition defenders and better options for PP2, which Green absolutely blows the other two out in those departments. All 3 are flawed players and best suited to a bottom pair role but Green brings more in the areas the Oilers are lacking.

Look at your lineup, half the guys on your blue line don't even have a full season under their belts, you're in trouble if a young guy struggles.

 

[Aerchon]

You have an obvious bias against Green and it's pretty apparent. Russel and Benning are not far superior to Green, especially not when you consider the Oilers need better transition defenders and better options for PP2, which Green absolutely blows the other two out in those departments. All 3 are flawed players and best suited to a bottom pair role but Green brings more in the areas the Oilers are lacking.

Look at your lineup, half the guys on your blue line don't even have a full season under their belts, you're in trouble if a young guy struggles.

I'm a big fan of Green. Back when he was one of the best offensive defensemen in the league. He has been dog crap for Detroit and was putrid for us.

To each their own but I thought Green was garbage in his very brief appearance for the Oilers. Slow sloppy and/or disinterested.

Exactly as bad as I thought he would be based off his last few years. The fallacy that Green can still skate at this level or produce at this level is straight up bizarre imo. His point production has fallen off a cliff. His defensive play, never good, is even worse. His wheels gonzo.

He is done as an effective nhl player. Russell and Benning are far better and it ain't even close.

Klefbom, Larrson, Nurse, Benning, Bear, and Jones is not so young or inexperienced in today's NHL and was effective this year. Bringing in Bouchard at age 21 isn't going to make the team fall apart. I trust Bouchard more than Green at this point and that's not even an exaggeration. It's more likely Bouchard can make the jump than Green can turn back the clock.

Lucic has a better chance to be an impact player next year than Green.

 

[Bring Back Bucky]

While I certainly can agree that my statement is easily twisted because it was poorly worded that shouldn't excuse someone adding in what was insinuated.

Two wrongs do not make it right.

I have since updated my post to more accurately express my intent. It is now the purely hockey post it was meant to be and can not be interpreted in a way that allows others to attack me personally.

Ain’t nobody personally attacked you brah. All I saw anyone do is quote your words. Which you typed and then hit enter.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

I'm a big fan of Green. Back when he was one of the best offensive defensemen in the league. He has been dog crap for Detroit and was putrid for us.

To each their own but I thought Green was garbage in his very brief appearance for the Oilers. Slow sloppy and/or disinterested.

Exactly as bad as I thought he would be based off his last few years. The fallacy that Green can still skate at this level or produce at this level is straight up bizarre imo. His point production has fallen off a cliff. His defensive play, never good, is even worse. His wheels gonzo.

He is done as an effective nhl player. Russell and Benning are far better and it ain't even close.

Klefbom, Larrson, Nurse, Benning, Bear, and Jones is not so young or inexperienced in today's NHL and was effective this year. Bringing in Bouchard at age 21 isn't going to make the team fall apart. I trust Bouchard more than Green at this point and that's not even an exaggeration. It's more likely Bouchard can make the jump than Green can turn back the clock.

Lucic has a better chance to be an impact player next year than Green.

He's been dog crap for Detroit? That team has been terrible for the better part of 3 years and when he has been healthy they basically played him as a top pairing guy. Most guys are gonna fail in that position on that team. He was putrid here for us? Well I don't think it's possible to get a good gage on a guy in 2 games or 25-30 minutes of ice time especially coming from the worst team in the league, but I guess that's enough time for you to make definitive statements such as "He's done as an effective NHL player". I think you've got a bad take all around, so bad in fact that it made me think you have a bias towards the player. He's still got a head for the game, a beauty breakout pass and his wheels are most definitely not gonzo, in fact I'd say he's still an above average skater and one of, if not the best skater on our blue line.

Obviously nobody is going to change your mind but I'll take Green on my team at 2M or less for that 6RD spot all day.

 

[Aerchon]

He's been dog crap for Detroit? That team has been terrible for the better part of 3 years and when he has been healthy they basically played him as a top pairing guy. Most guys are gonna fail in that position on that team. He was putrid here for us? Well I don't think it's possible to get a good gage on a guy in 2 games or 25-30 minutes of ice time especially coming from the worst team in the league, but I guess that's enough time for you to make definitive statements such as "He's done as an effective NHL player". I think you've got a bad take all around, so bad in fact that it made me think you have a bias towards the player. He's still got a head for the game, a beauty breakout pass and his wheels are most definitely not gonzo, in fact I'd say he's still an above average skater and one of, if not the best skater on our blue line.

Obviously nobody is going to change your mind but I'll take Green on my team at 2M or less for that 6RD spot all day.

Only person who could change my opinion on Green is Green.

He could heal up... again... and work his butt off all summer. Come in on a PTO and earn a contract with someone based off merit.

The skating comment is bizarre from my viewings. His movement, Edgeworth, speed, agility, and effectiveness was bad and resulted in a goal against us in his extremely limited ice time.

The only excuse I could think of for such poor skating was he was already injured. His ice time and usage suggested they were extremely hesitant to use him... period for whatever reason. Easing him in or whatever it may have been.

Your positives are as at least as exaggerating as my negatives and you give him a lot of slack. Personal bias is possibly equal between us. I'll happily meet you in the middle and except that he is neither good nor bad but completely inconsequential.

 

[De Montreal]

Green is bizarre

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I would prefer keeping Benning. He is really only a bottom pairing guy but he is very good in that role, is relatively cheap, and still an RFA.

There is no question in my mind that either Russell or Benning are far superior defensemen to Green. Injuries, especially to defensemen, seem too common to have Green as even as a replacement. Lose one guy for a season and Green plays 40+ games getting exposed in every one of those. Lose two guys and Green couldn't even be relied upon to survive a full season at his age/abilities.

Clear Russell out for help in net and run with.

Klefbom Larsson
Nurse Bear
Jones Bouchard
Laggesson Benning

A far younger better group that allows more flexibility.

More money for a goalie as well.

I think for the most part we're on the same wavelength, as I've got the same top 6. It's just Benning vs. Green.

Imo, if this team had a true offensive talent in the top 4, then I would agree that Benning should be the one kept, as
I agree he is better all round player. But with the current roster makeup, Green is the better fit.

Jones and Lagesson will most likely be the main names on the left side of the bottom pairing (along with Klefbom, Larsson, Nurse, and Bear in the top 4). That group needs someone with an offensive touch to complement those 6 vs. another 2 way/defensive player like Russell or Benning.


Bouchard is the obvious answer, but I don't like betting on a single rookie defender to lead the charge offensively from the blueline. Plus having Green mentor Bouchard (and Bear) for a season would likely pay dividends later too.

 

[ConnorMcNugesaitl]

Green may be a better mentor and aid with getting a better Bouchard in the long run. Or at least help him be able to be an impact faster. All I know is I’d rather have green telling Bouchard some offensive tricks in the nhl than Russell lol

I don't think there's really room for either so hopefully Holland can get rid of Russell and fight the urge to make a mistake and bring Green back.

Like Chia he's tended to show too much loyalty in the past to over the hill veterans so this is a good opportunity to show he's grown as a manager.

 

[Blue Line Turnover]

I thought that Green was skating fine and his ability to make a pass in his zone is still there. I wouldn't have minded seeing him with Klefbom for a while.

 

[nabob]

I didn't see an issue in his skating TBH but his recent injury history has been pretty rough and obviously he barely suited up for us. I think that he could be a good mentor for Bouchard much like Oates was for Horcoff and Stoll back in the day.

his skating is still above average and the way he moves the puck up ice is better than any current Oiler Dman

 

[Stoneman89]

his skating is still above average and the way he moves the puck up ice is better than any current Oiler Dman

Except when he's in the infirmary.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

his skating is still above average and the way he moves the puck up ice is better than any current Oiler Dman

All of this talk about mentoring Bouch but he could mentor Bear as well. I agree with your assessment of his play while he was healthy.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

Except when he's in the infirmary.

Hey, someone has to keep Klefbom company there.

 

[nabob]

Except when he's in the infirmary.

True. I’ll take that for 60-70 games a year though over Manning/Gravel/Lowe/Petrovic type of player

 

[BudBundy]

I thought that Green was skating fine and his ability to make a pass in his zone is still there. I wouldn't have minded seeing him with Klefbom for a while.

Ooof. Green with Klefbom would mean Green is playing two pairings above where he should be. If you are talking about those two on the PP, then ok. NOT at evens.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Except when he's in the infirmary.

It's important to note that a good portion of the time he's missed the last few seasons we're the result of a recurring viral infection that plagued him over parts of two seasons. Also when he was healthy he was overused in Detroit.

I think if he's playing in a role appropriate to his age and abilities, injuries might not be as much of a concern. By all accounts he's a guy who keeps himself in good shape but who knows, at 34 the body doesn't always do what you want it to.

 

[fireantz]

Looking at Holland’s history, we will not head into next season with Lagesson and Bouchard pencilled in to a top 6 spot nor will he let them sit as a 7th. He will go forward with Russell and Benning as 5/6 and Jones at 7. However reality says he can’t afford Russell so he will move him. Lagesson will be signed and hopefully clears to Bakersfield. An offer <$2M will be given to Green. If he wants to remain in Alberta he will be a 6-7 mentor. Benning will be qualified signed and traded if Green stays. Bouchard will get the Bear “show me” treatment. Starts in Bako unless he steals Bear Jones or Greens job or injuries occur. Pray Russell and Benning along with Puljujarvi bring forward help up front and add draft picks