European Super League

[Wanderson]

It’s being pointed out that the first English clubs to pull out are the ones without American ownership. Make of that what you will.

EDIT- At this hour, all the English clubs have declared that they are exiting the deal.

European Super League: US owners find greed doesn't work in Europe

Great article about the issue.

 

[Jumptheshark]

Watching the fan meltdown here in the UK over the past 24 hours was fun

 

[Fenway]

 

[sh724]

Really difficult as a North American sports fan to understand the distaste for this, so cool to see the commentary from some European posters here.

While the promotion and relegation format is kind of cool, it is really a struggle for me to consider some teams essentially have no chance to win a title - ever.

The only comparable I have is when Red Bull bought a team in Leipzig and started in tier 5 and pumped enough money into the team that it is now a top tier Bundesliga team. Having family roots in Leipzig but being entirely of the CDN mindset, I thought that was cool and a great way to get Leipzig on the global sporting map. However many locals were really not supportive (at least years ago).

I was actually thinking, how long before we see Red Bull push for a team perhaps using Leipzig as the option. Though I'm sure a New York team would be their ideal scenario, they just couldn't get a competitive team under MLS budget restraints.

I don't have a horse in the race, but I am still curious to see how things unfold. I can appreciate the "loyalty" and "spirit of the game" arguments against this, however criticism of money and greed I don't buy. This is already a sport that buys and sells players, that is all about the rich clubs, has some of the worst history of match fixing and has literally sold world cup events. It's already all about the money.

Admittedly I am a soccer novice, my understanding is the Red Bull organization basically uses their various teams as a training ground and moves players "up" from one team to the next as they see fit. the MLS team gives them an "in" to the US where the can recruit "home grown" talent then move them to Europe when they are ready. Their teams all play a similar style and have similar systems in place.

 

[PCSPounder]

The next question (while noting that Real Madrid and Barcelona aren’t exactly backing away from the venture)... will the fans of the other clubs involved chase their ownership away?

 

[golfortennis]

The next question (while noting that Real Madrid and Barcelona aren’t exactly backing away from the venture)... will the fans of the other clubs involved chase their ownership away?

How could they, other than completely dropping the team? And even then, since it appears to be localized outrage overall, will they care? Seems as though the TV money would still be there, and if the local fans simply switch allegiances to another EPL squad, then the domestic broadcast rights wouldn't look to be much less lucrative.

And while I appreciate the customers standing up for it, I would not want to get government involved in ownership changes.

 

[PCSPounder]

How could they, other than completely dropping the team? And even then, since it appears to be localized outrage overall, will they care? Seems as though the TV money would still be there, and if the local fans simply switch allegiances to another EPL squad, then the domestic broadcast rights wouldn't look to be much less lucrative.

And while I appreciate the customers standing up for it, I would not want to get government involved in ownership changes.

Your use of the word “customers” is the first thing that would get these supporters riled up into a mob. “Customers” is basically a four-letter word among European supporters of any sport and a large number of American soccer supporters. Boycotts- and worse- are common in Europe, and if you’ve noticed some of the posts in this thread, North American customers are looked down upon for not generally having the same attitude. There are exceptions (thinking about the previous Cleveland Browns and some fans imploring Art Modell to jump from the owner’s box), but not too many.

Of course, MLS fans have tolerated this kind of ownership out of fear that the sport here would be harmed... but there’s also been a turnover among the older fans I know.

 

[golfortennis]

Your use of the word “customers” is the first thing that would get these supporters riled up into a mob. “Customers” is basically a four-letter word among European supporters of any sport and a large number of American soccer supporters. Boycotts- and worse- are common in Europe, and if you’ve noticed some of the posts in this thread, North American customers are looked down upon for not generally having the same attitude. There are exceptions (thinking about the previous Cleveland Browns and some fans imploring Art Modell to jump from the owner’s box), but not too many.

Of course, MLS fans have tolerated this kind of ownership out of fear that the sport here would be harmed... but there’s also been a turnover among the older fans I know.

But they have to look at themselves as customers. Because "fans" suggests lifelong loyalty and the owner knows they can do just about anything, and the money flows in. Why do you think these guys felt emboldened to put this out there in the first place? Customers can and do change brands/products/services if they feel the current one no longer meets their needs. Because ultimately that's what everyone is, a customer. The only thing that gets owners' attention is money, spent either on their club, or withheld from the club.

Short of owning the team themselves, withholding money and eyeballs is the only way to get attention. I guess I can use your word supporters. But I'm really thinking "fans" needs to be put on the backburner, because it suggests too much of a sense where no matter what is done the money will always be there.

 

[CorbeauNoir]

Short of owning the team themselves, withholding money and eyeballs is the only way to get attention. I guess I can use your word supporters. But I'm really thinking "fans" needs to be put on the backburner, because it suggests too much of a sense where no matter what is done the money will always be there.

That's why at least in England there's a lot of clamoring for reform to a 50+1 fan-union ownership model like in Germany.

 

[PCSPounder]

Just turned on Arsenal v Everton and PBP acknowledged they could hear protests outside the stadium.

https://uk.sports.yahoo.com/news/arsenal-protest-fans-demand-kroenke-165417219.html

 

[Albatros]

That's why at least in England there's a lot of clamoring for reform to a 50+1 fan-union ownership model like in Germany.

Club members in Germany are guaranteed over 50 % of voting power, not necessarily of ownership. Most prominently Borussia Dortmund the club only owns just over 5 % of the professional football team.

 

[Fjorden]

I've always thought something like this would make sense. So many useless games in the calendar where la

rge metropolitan clubs with 200-300$ million all-star payrolls playing small provincial towns' clubs with a fraction of the budget and talent. This would be like a hockey league where NHL level clubs play 50 games a year against AHL/KHL level teams, or even the pre-1994 cap NHL with teams in the 80-100$ million range vs teams at $10-20. How is that compelling for anyone? bad from both entertainment and entertainment and business perspective.

It is braindead to have a tournament where there is no difference if you finish second or last. Then it's not sports anymore.

You've to earn it to be in those tournaments through results, not throug having a big name.
Tottenham what are they doing in this tournament? Knocked out by Dinamo Zagreb lately in Europa Leauge.
AC Milan haven't played in the champions League since 2013. Inter haven't gone passed the group stage in the champions league since 2011.
Arsenal haven't qualified for champions league since 2016.
Or even worse Schalke04 the bottom team in Geramny.

I want to see the best teams in those tournaments. If that's Leicester or Atalanta instead of Tottenham or AC Milan it's because they've earned it.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

Court rules UEFA, FIFA can't block Super League

The European Union's top court ruled on Thursday that governing bodies FIFA and UEFA were abusing their dominant position by forbidding clubs outright to compete in a European Super League.

www.espn.com

 

[NextBigThing]

I’ve been screaming in favor of this for years now. As a casual soccer fan I’m all for it. Am I going to watch Blackpool play Crystal Palace? Not a snowballs chance in hell. Am I going to watch Barcelona vs Manchester U? Bet your ass I am. We want to see the big historic rich clubs. Not the little irrelevant ones that have no chance to win.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I’ve been screaming in favor of this for years now. As a casual soccer fan I’m all for it. Am I going to watch Blackpool play Crystal Palace? Not a snowballs chance in hell. Am I going to watch Barcelona vs Manchester U? Bet your ass I am. We want to see the big historic rich clubs. Not the little irrelevant ones that have no chance to win.

As a serious football fan, it sucks.

 

[GindyDraws]

I’ve been screaming in favor of this for years now. As a casual soccer fan I’m all for it. Am I going to watch Blackpool play Crystal Palace? Not a snowballs chance in hell. Am I going to watch Barcelona vs Manchester U? Bet your ass I am. We want to see the big historic rich clubs. Not the little irrelevant ones that have no chance to win.

 

[Voight]

Given almost all the original backers have since said this is a bad idea.... regardless of what the EU court says it's unlikely the super league will ever happen.

Especially without the inclusion of powerhouses like Bayern.