Eugene Upgrade (?)

[PCSPounder]

Ah, you beat me to it.

Since I kind of follow the soccer team, I knew a bit about the development proposal. This is the first I’ve heard of the hockey arena. However, I think I can distinctly identify what’s going on here.

The soccer stadium would facilitate an upgrade of Lane United from USL League Two to League One. It probably needs to be 3,500 seats to be viable. However, you’ll note that the Emeralds baseball team (SAME OWNERSHIP) says the property is too tight to fit in a new ballpark. And that’s your clue. This is not THAT big a property.

If this happens, and it’ll be the usual Northwest-style process to get it done, the hockey part of the proposal will be no bigger than NAHL. That’s been the stated goal of Generals’ ownership. That’s an easy guess. But remember Northwest process, because there will be a rather large “make it just a park” counter.

EDIT- FYI, part of my conclusion came from a rendering on the LUFC tweet.

 

[mk80]

Ah, you beat me to it.

Since I kind of follow the soccer team, I knew a bit about the development proposal. This is the first I’ve heard of the hockey arena. However, I think I can distinctly identify what’s going on here.

The soccer stadium would facilitate an upgrade of Lane United from USL League Two to League One. It probably needs to be 3,500 seats to be viable. However, you’ll note that the Emeralds baseball team (SAME OWNERSHIP) says the property is too tight to fit in a new ballpark. And that’s your clue. This is not THAT big a property.

If this happens, and it’ll be the usual Northwest-style process to get it done, the hockey part of the proposal will be no bigger than NAHL. That’s been the stated goal of Generals’ ownership. That’s an easy guess. But remember Northwest process, because there will be a rather large “make it just a park” counter.

EDIT- FYI, part of my conclusion came from a rendering on the LUFC tweet.

One thing to keep in mind is outside of the NAHL south and a few eastern teams, you don't need a huge arena for the NAHL.

Looking at teams like Maryland, NJ Titans, Chippewa, Springfield, Janesville, and New Mexico. They play in facilities that are your average rec rink seating of bleachers down one side. Based on that limited view of the rendering it looks to be one main rink and one auxillary rink which should be sufficient for the Generals in the NAHL if that was the move they make.

If the Generals go to the NAHL though, there would need to be a couple other Pacific Northwest teams otherwise it becomes the same situation Wenatchee found themselves in.

 

[SharksFan1978]

Ah, you beat me to it.

Since I kind of follow the soccer team, I knew a bit about the development proposal. This is the first I’ve heard of the hockey arena. However, I think I can distinctly identify what’s going on here.

The soccer stadium would facilitate an upgrade of Lane United from USL League Two to League One. It probably needs to be 3,500 seats to be viable. However, you’ll note that the Emeralds baseball team (SAME OWNERSHIP) says the property is too tight to fit in a new ballpark. And that’s your clue. This is not THAT big a property.

If this happens, and it’ll be the usual Northwest-style process to get it done, the hockey part of the proposal will be no bigger than NAHL. That’s been the stated goal of Generals’ ownership. That’s an easy guess. But remember Northwest process, because there will be a rather large “make it just a park” counter.

EDIT- FYI, part of my conclusion came from a rendering on the LUFC tweet.

I've never had a chance to attend a Reds match, but I've followed LUFC as well and I was frankly shocked to see this because everything I've heard/read the past couple years has been all about making Civic Park their home once/if (and I guess maybe that should've been a clue, now that I think about it, given how much the process has slowed down thanks to COVID, etc.) they could complete the renovation/building process, get all the necessary seating in place.

I wonder what other sites the Emeralds are looking at, as it's been reported they are considering up to a dozen other sites, some of which are not even in Eugene. This rise to High-A ball—which seems to have come completely out of left field, or at the very least a decade or so earlier than they could have ever hoped—is really gonna put the screws to them in terms of needing to find and build a new stadium by 2024, I think the deadline was. Should be interesting. I would be more than a little impressed if soon we're talking about new facilities for the Reds, Emeralds, AND Generals!

But yes, NAHL does seem the most likely result, plus, if the state is able to come away with two more hockey rinks as a result of all this, I'm not going to complain about that in the least.

 

[SharksFan1978]

If the Generals go to the NAHL though, there would need to be a couple other Pacific Northwest teams otherwise it becomes the same situation Wenatchee found themselves in.

And that's been the rub for years down here. The Generals weren't on an island for the first decade or so, thanks to there usually being teams in PDX(ish) and/or southern Oregon to go along with your Seattles and not-quite-Tacomas, etc., but with those teams either flopping due to lack of support, infrastructure, etc., or leaving for supposed greener pastures, they've been forced to move over to indie status for ~5 years and now they are very much on a small, far-away island. There definitely needs to be buy-in from, I'd guess, at least three other cities in OR/WA to make this work just from a travel/logistics standpoint.

God only knows where those places would be, but if you could get teams in some combination of PDX(ish), Bend, Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, Tri-Cities, Everett (there was an announcement that an Everett team would be joining the last proper league division the Generals played in, but it must have fallen through), Wenatchee, and/or some other places around here that have rinks (I doubt Medford would want a second club), then that would make this seem more feasible. Maybe a Coeur d'Alene? I wonder as well, if a West Coast/Western Division materialized, if there would be a call to move the three Alaska teams to such a division from the Midwest Division to help things along a bit (I'm sure they'd love to cut down on their already-lengthy travel schedule).

 

[PCSPounder]

Before going to the main subject, I should mention the fate of LUFC. They will play in Civic Park this year (if they play at all). They were lucky to get that much. LUFC was used as motivation to get Civic Park done, all this money came in, and it all went to the KidSports facility. LUFC got used and then were denied a larger stadium as originally proposed.

And that's been the rub for years down here. The Generals weren't on an island for the first decade or so, thanks to there usually being teams in PDX(ish) and/or southern Oregon to go along with your Seattles and not-quite-Tacomas, etc., but with those teams either flopping due to lack of support, infrastructure, etc., or leaving for supposed greener pastures, they've been forced to move over to indie status for ~5 years and now they are very much on a small, far-away island. There definitely needs to be buy-in from, I'd guess, at least three other cities in OR/WA to make this work just from a travel/logistics standpoint.

God only knows where those places would be, but if you could get teams in some combination of PDX(ish), Bend, Seattle, Tacoma, Bremerton, Tri-Cities, Everett (there was an announcement that an Everett team would be joining the last proper league division the Generals played in, but it must have fallen through), Wenatchee, and/or some other places around here that have rinks (I doubt Medford would want a second club), then that would make this seem more feasible. Maybe a Coeur d'Alene? I wonder as well, if a West Coast/Western Division materialized, if there would be a call to move the three Alaska teams to such a division from the Midwest Division to help things along a bit (I'm sure they'd love to cut down on their already-lengthy travel schedule).

We already have a Tacoma facility saying they want to get in on NAHL. Then the friend of a guy posted about a proposed conversion of the JC Penney in the Bend mall into an arena, and based on what’s happened elsewhere, that likely scales to NAHL (never mind our friend of the guy was begging for WHL). That’s 3.

Doesn’t the practice rink in the Everett arena have some seats? It’s my understanding that one of the rinks at the Kraken’s practice facility will have seats. Also, while I’m aware of the 1,000-capacity barns currently hosting NAHL clubs, maybe I’d want to see Bellingham, Bremerton, and perhaps even Medford add seats to accommodate this rather than jump in with the USPHL... but we can’t always get what we want. I haven’t had the chance to size up Sherwood or the Winterhawks practice rink in Beaverton. The good news is that options exist.

 

[mk80]

Before going to the main subject, I should mention the fate of LUFC. They will play in Civic Park this year (if they play at all). They were lucky to get that much. LUFC was used as motivation to get Civic Park done, all this money came in, and it all went to the KidSports facility. LUFC got used and then were denied a larger stadium as originally proposed.



We already have a Tacoma facility saying they want to get in on NAHL. Then the friend of a guy posted about a proposed conversion of the JC Penney in the Bend mall into an arena, and based on what’s happened elsewhere, that likely scales to NAHL (never mind our friend of the guy was begging for WHL). That’s 3.

Doesn’t the practice rink in the Everett arena have some seats? It’s my understanding that one of the rinks at the Kraken’s practice facility will have seats. Also, while I’m aware of the 1,000-capacity barns currently hosting NAHL clubs, maybe I’d want to see Bellingham, Bremerton, and perhaps even Medford add seats to accommodate this rather than jump in with the USPHL... but we can’t always get what we want. I haven’t had the chance to size up Sherwood or the Winterhawks practice rink in Beaverton. The good news is that options exist.

If the NAHL got a solid group of teams, I would think there's a small chance Wenatchee could come back in, even their BCHL travel is a little much compared to what a NAHL division would be like.

 

[PCSPounder]

If the NAHL got a solid group of teams, I would think there's a small chance Wenatchee could come back in, even their BCHL travel is a little much compared to what a NAHL division would be like.

I’d floated that idea here. Yeah, probably small chance, if only for the pride factor.

Also have to remember that my last visit there was during the Leavenworth Oktoberfest, on a Friday (HS football), so probably the perfect storm leading to low attendance.

 

[SharksFan1978]

Before going to the main subject, I should mention the fate of LUFC. They will play in Civic Park this year (if they play at all). They were lucky to get that much. LUFC was used as motivation to get Civic Park done, all this money came in, and it all went to the KidSports facility. LUFC got used and then were denied a larger stadium as originally proposed.



We already have a Tacoma facility saying they want to get in on NAHL. Then the friend of a guy posted about a proposed conversion of the JC Penney in the Bend mall into an arena, and based on what’s happened elsewhere, that likely scales to NAHL (never mind our friend of the guy was begging for WHL). That’s 3.

Doesn’t the practice rink in the Everett arena have some seats? It’s my understanding that one of the rinks at the Kraken’s practice facility will have seats. Also, while I’m aware of the 1,000-capacity barns currently hosting NAHL clubs, maybe I’d want to see Bellingham, Bremerton, and perhaps even Medford add seats to accommodate this rather than jump in with the USPHL... but we can’t always get what we want. I haven’t had the chance to size up Sherwood or the Winterhawks practice rink in Beaverton. The good news is that options exist.

That sucks, re: LUFC. Sounds like they got absolutely hosed in all of this. :/

I'd forgotten about Bellingham. They'd be an interesting get. Tacoma, Bend, and Eugene would be a nice first three. I have no idea about the Everett or Seattle practice rinks, though I wonder if Everett could handle/would even want a second hockey team—different tiers, I know, but I wonder if that would muddy the waters a bit. Maybe not. Seattle at least would be all the way out in Northgate, so it wouldn't be in Kent, Everett, or downtown, and could stand a bit more on its own, I'd wager, rather than competing too much with other established teams, markets, etc. Bremerton's got that facility, but I'd be leery of them just because historically any franchises on any level that have come through there have been train wrecks almost across the board. Beggars can't be choosers, but still, I'd find them highly unlikely.

Definitely wouldn't want to cozy up with the USPHL, and I'd bet dollars to donuts the Generals want nothing to do with them either, so the question would be whether or not the Southern Oregon Spartans could/would want to move up to the NAHL. If so, then you've got another solid option.

But like you said, it is good that prospective options exist. If you could get, say, seven of Eugene, Bend, Tacoma, Seattle(ish), Everett, PDX(ish), Medford, and Bellingham, not discounting the possibility that wonders never cease and so maybe something could get done with a Wenatchee as well, for example, then you'd have something doable, I'd say. The question of course is how realistic any of that is. And there could always be the fallback of shifting the Alaska teams to this division if only four or five of these options play out.

 

[GrizzGreen]

I haven’t had the chance to size up Sherwood or the Winterhawks practice rink in Beaverton. The good news is that options exist.

These aren't really viable options based on the designs IMO (no one should try to emulate the River City Jaguars), as well as Sherwood pretty much offering ice time exclusively to adult leagues.

 

[canucklax]

These aren't really viable options based on the designs IMO (no one should try to emulate the River City Jaguars), as well as Sherwood pretty much offering ice time exclusively to adult leagues.

Didn't sherwood close down permanently during the pandemic?

 

[GrizzGreen]

Didn't sherwood close down permanently during the pandemic?

I thought that too but they're still open, as of now

 

[canucklax]

I thought that too but they're still open, as of now

Well that's great news to me, we need all the sheets of ice operating in the area that we can get

 

[mk80]

Really to get a Pacific Northwest foothold the NAHL would need about 3 teams they could then pair with the 3 existing Alaska teams. It would still be a fair bit of travel for everyone but better than the current arrangement of the Alaska teams playing in the Midwest Division against opponents in Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota.

If the Generals can get re-established in a new arena like they're shooting for their ownership is very pro USA Hockey so they'd likely be a lock.

 

[SharksFan1978]

Really to get a Pacific Northwest foothold the NAHL would need about 3 teams they could then pair with the 3 existing Alaska teams. It would still be a fair bit of travel for everyone but better than the current arrangement of the Alaska teams playing in the Midwest Division against opponents in Wisconsin, Illinois and Minnesota.

This was one of my exact points earlier in the thread. Given the options, Alaskan teams would have to be rooting for this to come to fruition, no? I mean, anything to cut down on costs and length of travel would be huge for the Alaska teams. I'm in Eugene, so I'm obviously hoping they can be included in any sort of West Coast/Northwest Division (at this point I have to think their planned move/promotion to another level of hockey a couple years ago has to be the NAHL—what else could it be?) creation. If they could get one or two more in Oregon and two or three from Washington then that would be great, getting the division up to eight teams.

 

[PCSPounder]

Time for a left field option. Probably not an ideal one.
Boise.

Some dominoes will need to fall into place. One of the apparent options for Vancouver’s AHL affiliate is Salt Lake City. Given reports that Elmore Sports Group, who owns the ECHL Utah Grizzlies, was promising to bring an ECHL team to Amarillo, AHL to Utah seems like the other shoe dropping in that equation.

That presumes the Canucks do NOT eventually want to locate in Abbotsford instead.

If Utah goes AHL, that leaves the Idaho Steelheads on an island. Not that this is relevant... Idaho ownership is probably stubborn enough to ride that out as long as possible. Just that the NAHL can provide a regional alternative. Idaho Ice World might have 1,000 capacity and is a two-rink complex (Portland should be jealous) and could at least gain a foothold that way. But the goal could well be Idaho Central Arena. Of course, more a possibility than a probability.

 

[JMCx4]

@PCSPounder : You have thereby ^^^^^ taken this "Eugene Upgrade (?)" topic to an alternate universe. I don't no whether to applaud your hyper-jump, or to slam closed the portal behind you.

 

[PCSPounder]

@PCSPounder : You have thereby ^^^^^ taken this "Eugene Upgrade (?)" topic to an alternate universe. I don't no whether to applaud your hyper-jump, or to slam closed the portal behind you.

Everything in the hockey universe IS connected. It probably doesn’t even require hallucinogens to see them.

 

[JMCx4]

Everything in the hockey universe IS connected. It probably doesn’t even require hallucinogens to see them.

But this thread expansion now has me consulting the Pharmacists Drug Handbook.

 

[SharksFan1978]

Time for a left field option. Probably not an ideal one.
Boise.

Some dominoes will need to fall into place. One of the apparent options for Vancouver’s AHL affiliate is Salt Lake City. Given reports that Elmore Sports Group, who owns the ECHL Utah Grizzlies, was promising to bring an ECHL team to Amarillo, AHL to Utah seems like the other shoe dropping in that equation.

That presumes the Canucks do NOT eventually want to locate in Abbotsford instead.

If Utah goes AHL, that leaves the Idaho Steelheads on an island. Not that this is relevant... Idaho ownership is probably stubborn enough to ride that out as long as possible. Just that the NAHL can provide a regional alternative. Idaho Ice World might have 1,000 capacity and is a two-rink complex (Portland should be jealous) and could at least gain a foothold that way. But the goal could well be Idaho Central Arena. Of course, more a possibility than a probability.

Now that would be interesting. Up to this point I've only discussed OR and WA cities as options, though I may have mentioned Coeur d'Alene (I've at least thought about it once or twice if nothing else). But yeah, Boise would be a solid get if something like this were to come to fruition.

 

[PCSPounder]

Now that would be interesting. Up to this point I've only discussed OR and WA cities as options, though I may have mentioned Coeur d'Alene (I've at least thought about it once or twice if nothing else). But yeah, Boise would be a solid get if something like this were to come to fruition.

The difference: Coeur d’Alene is practically a suburb/exurb of Spokane, while Boise has a bit of a travel issue and has hundreds of miles of space around it with no real town to host a “bridge” team. Then again, when Southern Oregon and McCall were both in the WSHL, I could scarcely begin to contemplate that travel, though weekend series were the norm in that league. I know the Winterhawks didn’t like the idea of Boise in the WHL (think I’ve discussed that before on these boards) because the weather in the Blue Mountains can be dicey a few weekends out of the year, the distance is at least an hour longer than a Spokane drive, and the WHL (Prince George aside, maybe) doesn’t like to schedule “series.”

 

[SharksFan1978]

No links to anything in particular, but there is a fair bit of discussion going on about the Lane County Fairgrounds and its future thanks to...the local minor league baseball team here in Eugene: the Emeralds. They've been playing in a stadium owned by the U of O, but now that the Emeralds have moved up to a higher level of minor league ball their parent organization—the San Francisco Giants—has said they need to get their own stadium by the start of the 2024 season, or else they will be relocated. That would suck, big time.

What does this have to do with the Generals/a rink in Eugene? Well, one of the sites the Emeralds are heavily considering is on the Lane County Fairgrounds property, as apparently LCF is looking to modernize and reinvent itself. This could include relocating the fairgrounds somewhere else, repurposing current facilities, both, etc. No one knows if this will impact the ice rink there, but one wonders if this news, in conjunction with one of the mixed-use proposals that was floated for the unincorporated Glenwood area back in April—which included a new ice rink, and which, IIRC, the Generals supported—could lead to the Generals actually getting a new facility to play in. Supposedly a developer is going to be selected sometime in December, so...maybe?

Then again, maybe not.

 

[PCSPounder]

No links to anything in particular, but there is a fair bit of discussion going on about the Lane County Fairgrounds and its future thanks to...the local minor league baseball team here in Eugene: the Emeralds. They've been playing in a stadium owned by the U of O, but now that the Emeralds have moved up to a higher level of minor league ball their parent organization—the San Francisco Giants—has said they need to get their own stadium by the start of the 2024 season, or else they will be relocated. That would suck, big time.

What does this have to do with the Generals/a rink in Eugene? Well, one of the sites the Emeralds are heavily considering is on the Lane County Fairgrounds property, as apparently LCF is looking to modernize and reinvent itself. This could include relocating the fairgrounds somewhere else, repurposing current facilities, both, etc. No one knows if this will impact the ice rink there, but one wonders if this news, in conjunction with one of the mixed-use proposals that was floated for the unincorporated Glenwood area back in April—which included a new ice rink, and which, IIRC, the Generals supported—could lead to the Generals actually getting a new facility to play in. Supposedly a developer is going to be selected sometime in December, so...maybe?

Then again, maybe not.

Is there an article?

There’s been proposals for years regarding either moving the fairgrounds out of town or redeveloping what’s there and probably every permutation under the rain there. It’s a large plot of land that feels like it’s neighborhood, but is 6 blocks from the spur freeway that serves traffic from the lower west side neighborhoods to downtown and I-5. The main building has previously been talked about for indoor football (probable capacity 5,000). There’s enough space overall to accommodate 2 or more proposals, though that may not be the way to bet.

My understanding about The Rink Exchange is that they had employed a temporary solution to an ice surface/base problem, kept it going all this time, and suddenly no more word about that.

This also might be getting overshadowed in Eugene news right now.

University of Oregon announces plans for new indoor practice facility

Oregon has an existing indoor practice facility, but now they want a new fancier one while giving the current one to other sports.

 

[SharksFan1978]

Is there an article?

There’s been proposals for years regarding either moving the fairgrounds out of town or redeveloping what’s there and probably every permutation under the rain there. It’s a large plot of land that feels like it’s neighborhood, but is 6 blocks from the spur freeway that serves traffic from the lower west side neighborhoods to downtown and I-5. The main building has previously been talked about for indoor football (probable capacity 5,000). There’s enough space overall to accommodate 2 or more proposals, though that may not be the way to bet.

My understanding about The Rink Exchange is that they had employed a temporary solution to an ice surface/base problem, kept it going all this time, and suddenly no more word about that.

This also might be getting overshadowed in Eugene news right now.

University of Oregon announces plans for new indoor practice facility

Oregon has an existing indoor practice facility, but now they want a new fancier one while giving the current one to other sports.

No article. This is all coming from the Emeralds' Facebook page in response to a survey they posted a link to a few days ago. A lot of people are asking a lot of questions, and whoever's manning that page is doing a pretty decent job of responding with what information they have regarding possible sites they are considering, the timeline they're working under, how they would propose to be part of the solution for LCF going forward if LCF decides to work with them, why other sites can't be considered, etc.

Come to think of it though, there was this story the other day as well, so I guess there is at least one article, though I think I've been getting more out of the FB post communication from October 18th.

And that's interesting about the UO plans. I remember seeing that headline but hadn't actually checked out the article.

 

[PCSPounder]

An agreement between the Emeralds and Lane County Fairgrounds (preliminary) was announced last week.

Eugene Emeralds, Lane County move ahead with plans for fairgrounds

I’ve looked at more than one article to see if more of a “complex” is envisioned. While Lane Events Center is said to be involved, and the facility envisioned mentions a couple things you don’t usually see in a ballpark, I tend to doubt any hockey barn is under consideration… for now. The emphasis on “multipurpose” leaves room for the Lane United upgrade if Glenwood falls through, so keep an eye out for further developments.

 

[PCSPounder]

Springfield approves developers for Glenwood Riverfront project

The developers in negotiation aren’t the presenters from last April. Springfield is very noncommittal about what will actually be built. But the way the project is being described and discussed (some in other articles) gives the appearance that the sports facilities are not being considered.

One hedge… since I’m familiar with Boise’s arena/hotel complex, something like that perhaps shouldn’t be ruled out here.