Eugene Melnyk Pledges to spend near salary cap: FYOUS Edition

Will Melnyk Keep his Promise?


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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
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I don’t think many people are defending management so much as pushing back against the smothering negativity in here. I love my team and am well tired of jaded fans kicking the team when it’s down relentlessly.

There is a difference.

I want the signed, but if they don’t want to stay then we’ll have to get the best offers we can, what other choice do we have? Hopefully the returns will be better than what EK was able to garner, and some firsts from this year would be nice.

I’m in the camp that if these guys want out, trade ‘em all and start from the bottom like Drake... lol
Posters pointing to the problems caused by Melnyk are not “kicking the team when it’s down” and you are not a white knight on a horse riding in to defend the Sens.

Melnyk and his puppet Dorion are not the Sens. You are defending their destruction of the team you love and getting angry with passionate Sens fans who are fighting back against their agenda of destruction.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,120
30,339
I don’t think many people are defending management so much as pushing back against the smothering negativity in here. I love my team and am well tired of jaded fans kicking the team when it’s down relentlessly.

There is a difference.

I want the signed, but if they don’t want to stay then we’ll have to get the best offers we can, what other choice do we have? Hopefully the returns will be better than what EK was able to garner, and some firsts from this year would be nice.

I’m in the camp that if these guys want out, trade ‘em all and start from the bottom like Drake... lol

At what point does "he wanted out, there was nothing the GM could have done" cease to be a valid excuse for the GM and become an indictment of the team?
 

DaveMatthew

Bring in Peter
Apr 13, 2005
14,507
13,180
Ott
I don’t think many people are defending management so much as pushing back against the smothering negativity in here. I love my team and am well tired of jaded fans kicking the team when it’s down relentlessly.

There is a difference.

I want the signed, but if they don’t want to stay then we’ll have to get the best offers we can, what other choice do we have? Hopefully the returns will be better than what EK was able to garner, and some firsts from this year would be nice.

I’m in the camp that if these guys want out, trade ‘em all and start from the bottom like Drake... lol

The thing that you never address though, is why all of these guys want out.

If Karlsson, Stone and Duchene all want(ed) out, what makes you believe Chabot will be any different? Or Tkachuk? Or Batherson? Eventually, ELCs will run out and those guys will need to signed...

Would you be surprised if at some point next year, it comes out that Chabot is looking to be paid like a top 5 defenseman and Ottawa has to explore trade options despite offering a "fair-market" contract? Or if Keith Tkachuk starts pulling some strings to ensure his son's career isn't dragged down by Pierre from Orleans and "Mr." Melnyk?
 
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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
The thing that you never address though, is why all of these guys want out.

If Karlsson, Stone and Duchene all want(ed) out, what makes you believe Chabot will be any different? Or Tkachuk? Or Batherson? Eventually, ELCs will run out and those guys will need to signed...

Would you be surprised if at some point next year, it comes out that Chabot is looking to be paid like a top 5 defenseman and Ottawa has to explore trade options despite offering a "fair-market" contract? Or if Keith Tkachuk starts pulling some strings to ensure his son's career isn't dragged down by Pierre from Orleans?
Maybe Julie Turris can help Ice-Tray out...

I’m betting she has a little bit better understanding of what is going on with the Sens than the white knight from Victoria.
 

Karl Prime

Registered User
Feb 13, 2017
4,582
4,310
If Duchene and Stone get traded, what else is there to think of besides the negative things? Losing a superstar and two other star players in the span of 9 months isn't positive. I think almost everyone wants them re-signed but understand that spending $24ish million on them with the team's budget isn't realistic, especially with Chabot in line for big money. If Tkachuk, Brown, and Batherson pan out? Great, they'll just want to get paid market value and guess who isn't going to like that?

Going through this season isn't fun or encouraging because there's no top draft pick as a reward for being awful. If we could look forward to Kakko, Cozens, Dach, or Hughes (they wouldn't draft Podkolzin) and re-sign the big 3, then the talk would be about moving forward with a young and talented team that could make some noise next season if Dorion made some good trades. Now we gotta hope that the team is bad next season so they have a shot at Lafreniere, Byfield, or Holtz.

The bottom line is that nothing gets better with Melnyk owning the team. The new arena is the one thing that can give us promise that there will be more revenue leading to more spending on the organization as a whole (not just spending near the cap but paying for a great GM, experienced coach, proper AGM, a full global scouting team) - but unfortunately it looks as if it's a ways away if it happens.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

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Oct 16, 2006
15,228
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If Duchene and Stone get traded, what else is there to think of besides the negative things? Losing a superstar and two other star players in the span of 9 months isn't positive. I think almost everyone wants them re-signed but understand that spending $24ish million on them with the team's budget isn't realistic, especially with Chabot in line for big money. If Tkachuk, Brown, and Batherson pan out? Great, they'll just want to get paid market value and guess who isn't going to like that?

Going through this season isn't fun or encouraging because there's no top draft pick as a reward for being awful. If we could look forward to Kakko, Cozens, Dach, or Hughes (they wouldn't draft Podkolzin) and re-sign the big 3, then the talk would be about moving forward with a young and talented team that could make some noise next season if Dorion made some good trades. Now we gotta hope that the team is bad next season so they have a shot at Lafreniere, Byfield, or Holtz.

The bottom line is that nothing gets better with Melnyk owning the team. The new arena is the one thing that can give us promise that there will be more revenue leading to more spending on the organization as a whole (not just spending near the cap but paying for a great GM, experienced coach, proper AGM, a full global scouting team) - but unfortunately it looks as if it's a ways away if it happens.
Yup. There is no "light" at the end of the tunnel under Melnyk. We'll just witness more drama when the time comes.
 
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Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,993
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After reading through some of the recent posts .. I am now trying to look for the positives in all the crap we've been living with this team with a dingbat owner, a feable GM and a smothering coach. I can't actually believe how poorly this team has been run and the decisions that have been made to make this team the worst in the NHL with no real prospect of changing that... But alas those are all negative thoughts that may run very close to reality, none the less, I am looking for something positive.. I will get back to you when I find anything at all.
 
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Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
16,288
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At what point does "he wanted out, there was nothing the GM could have done" cease to be a valid excuse for the GM and become an indictment of the team?

Does it matter? We’re never going to get the real goods, we never do as fans. I see little value in endless speculation that gets everyone wound up tight.

In the end the only thing that matters is that he gets value for them if they don’t want to stay, no matter the reason. They could hate Ottawa, Dorion, EM, or sparticat, doesn’t matter, they still get to decide if they sign or not whatever the reason, and must be treated accordingly if they decline.

I mean to the players, endless fan ranting on every forum, and refusing to attend games in respectable numbers, could have very likely contributed to an environment they don’t want to be a part of, as much as PD being awkward in live interviews.

As I said, no point in putting stock in fans pointing fingers, in my opinion (myself included) when fans have zero internal information to go on.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,288
8,100
Victoria
The thing that you never address though, is why all of these guys want out.

If Karlsson, Stone and Duchene all want(ed) out, what makes you believe Chabot will be any different? Or Tkachuk? Or Batherson? Eventually, ELCs will run out and those guys will need to signed...

Would you be surprised if at some point next year, it comes out that Chabot is looking to be paid like a top 5 defenseman and Ottawa has to explore trade options despite offering a "fair-market" contract? Or if Keith Tkachuk starts pulling some strings to ensure his son's career isn't dragged down by Pierre from Orleans and "Mr." Melnyk?

I don’t address it because no one has ever filled us in. EK chose not to, and we aren’t privy to why that is.

If Stone and Duchene don’t sign maybe they will tell us why, but somehow I doubt it beyond not wanting to go through a rebuild. And hey, that could be true.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
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Does it matter? We’re never going to get the real goods, we never do as fans. I see little value in endless speculation that gets everyone wound up tight.

In the end the only thing that matters is that he gets value for them if they don’t want to stay, no matter the reason. They could hate Ottawa, Dorion, EM, or sparticat, doesn’t matter, they still get to decide if they sign or not whatever the reason, and must be treated accordingly if they decline.

I mean to the players, endless fan ranting on every forum, and refusing to attend games in respectable numbers, could have very likely contributed to an environment they don’t want to be a part of, as much as PD being awkward in live interviews.

As I said, no point in putting stoke in fans pointing fingers, when fans have zero internal information to go on.
Does Julie Turris have inside information?

Do I need to remind you of your reaction to the EK trade and Dorion’s ability to “get value for them”?

The simple fact that Dorion is looking to move them at the low point of their value by holding them to the deadline in a throwaway season speaks to his incompetence or Melnyk refusing to allow him to maximize their value in order to sell tickets.

Either way, they will be fully deserving of the criticism and mockery they receive.
 
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Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
I don’t address it because no one has ever filled us in. EK chose not to, and we aren’t privy to why that is.

If Stone and Duchene don’t sign maybe they will tell us why, but somehow I doubt it beyond not wanting to go through a rebuild. And hey, that could be true.
I’ll quote your own words back to you, as you seem to be contradicting them here.

This straw man needs to die, no one thinks our issues haven’t sprung from the owner almost exclusively.
 

SenatorsHockey

Sweet hockey body
Jan 6, 2009
3,623
44
Ottawa
Does it matter?...

Yes, it does, big time. When we as fans keep seeing our star players (both home-grown and acquired from trades) refusing to sign and being traded for scraps, it matters. There's obviously one common denominator in all of this. What can we be expected to think when the next crop of stars have earned their pay raises? Will be willing (or even capable) of keeping Chabot, Tkachuk, Batherson, etc once it's time for them to be signed to long-term contracts?

It matters to me as a fan because I don't believe a word coming out the mouths of Melnyk and Dorion and I know I'm not the only one. The amount of star power we've lost (and look to be losing) is absolutely staggering. The impression I've gotten is that this team isn't concerned with winning. We're throwing around the term "rebuild" to mask a massive drop in talent since we can't afford to keep our best players.

If fans aren't buying what they're selling as a business, it should matter. Problem is, it all starts at the top so there isn't much about it that can be done about it.

Edit: Sorry DaveMatthews, I missed your take so mine sounds a lot like yours. Like I said though, I'm not alone in my thinking... It's a legitimate question to ask as a fan. What's the point acquiring and developing star players if you can't afford to pay them? We're honestly a farm team for the rest of the NHL, it's a god damn joke what we've been reduced to as an organization.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,993
49,514
Does it matter? We’re never going to get the real goods, we never do as fans. I see little value in endless speculation that gets everyone wound up tight.

In the end the only thing that matters is that he gets value for them if they don’t want to stay, no matter the reason. They could hate Ottawa, Dorion, EM, or sparticat, doesn’t matter, they still get to decide if they sign or not whatever the reason, and must be treated accordingly if they decline.

I mean to the players, endless fan ranting on every forum, and refusing to attend games in respectable numbers, could have very likely contributed to an environment they don’t want to be a part of, as much as PD being awkward in live interviews.

As I said, no point in putting stock in fans pointing fingers, in my opinion (myself included) when fans have zero internal information to go on.

Without actually knowing for sure because I have never actually read the words.. I would go out on a limb and surmise that @Sensung doesn't like Melnyk. catch my drift?
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
Does it matter? We’re never going to get the real goods, we never do as fans. I see little value in endless speculation that gets everyone wound up tight.

In the end the only thing that matters is that he gets value for them if they don’t want to stay, no matter the reason. They could hate Ottawa, Dorion, EM, or sparticat, doesn’t matter, they still get to decide if they sign or not whatever the reason, and must be treated accordingly if they decline.

I mean to the players, endless fan ranting on every forum, and refusing to attend games in respectable numbers, could have very likely contributed to an environment they don’t want to be a part of, as much as PD being awkward in live interviews.

As I said, no point in putting stock in fans pointing fingers, in my opinion (myself included) when fans have zero internal information to go on.
Well this is what you had to say on the subject of who is to blame for the issues facing the Sens.

This straw man needs to die, no one thinks our issues haven’t sprung from the owner almost exclusively.
 

Sens of Anarchy

Registered User
Jul 9, 2013
64,993
49,514
Yes, I’m catching your drift, though Stone and Duchene may be a touch more subtle.... hahaha
I am not convinced that there is any direct animosity towards Melnyk felt by Strone or Duchene .. I do think the situation the Sens are in now vs what they want for themselves are at odds. Blaming Melnyk exclusively for that is not as obvious as some would have us believe... but the situation is what it is, and these two guys have to face it head on .. Its not surprising to me if the grass looks greener elsewhere and they are in the position to determine their own fate more than they've ever been.
 

CanadianHockey

Smith - Alfie
Jul 3, 2009
30,547
513
Petawawa
twitter.com
After reading through some of the recent posts .. I am now trying to look for the positives in all the crap we've been living with this team with a dingbat owner, a feable GM and a smothering coach. I can't actually believe how poorly this team has been run and the decisions that have been made to make this team the worst in the NHL with no real prospect of changing that... But alas those are all negative thoughts that may run very close to reality, none the less, I am looking for something positive.. I will get back to you when I find anything at all.

At least you aren't a fan of both the Sens and the Oilers :dunno:
 

Do Make Say Think

& Yet & Yet
Jun 26, 2007
51,157
9,904
212 votes

9 think Melnyk will keep this promise.

Vocal minority indeed.

I voted yes and only because I think that Melnyk would look awful to his corporate partners if he didn't follow through.

The corporate partners care about the Senators only because the Senators have fans who watch/spend money on the team. If the owner drives away those fans, he loses corporate support. Melnyk desperately needs corporate support to keep playing the con game: he can't lie to them like he can lie to us.

A cap team gets the sponsors more money, those sponsors don't give a flying **** about "well the UFAs won't stay", they want to make money by spending theirs. If Melnyk promises them a better return on their investment by actually spending more on the roster, the sponsors won't want to hear about the technicalities of what Melnyk actually said two to three years prior; they'll just spend their money elsewhere.
 
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Ouroboros

There is no armour against Fate
Feb 3, 2008
14,929
10,167
I don’t address it because no one has ever filled us in. EK chose not to, and we aren’t privy to why that is.

If Stone and Duchene don’t sign maybe they will tell us why, but somehow I doubt it beyond not wanting to go through a rebuild. And hey, that could be true.

Here's something you might find interesting. I came across this in Murray Pam's recent article about the Sens and the deadline.

Unable to communicate with the Senators or media publicly at the time due to CBA restrictions regarding contract negotiations, a representative from Newport Sports Management stated in a pre-Jan. 1 email exchange with Sporting News regarding Stone:

"It's up to the player whether or not an uncertain ownership situation may cause him to step back. We would still negotiate with Ottawa if the player wants us to.

"For any player who is going to sign long-term somewhere either as a free agent or with his current team, there are various factors that may be important to a player. For some, it's only about the contract (term and money). For others, there are many more factors - coach, management, linemates/D partner, future prospects, chance of winning, friends, family, cost of living, taxes, climate, etc."

I put the really important part in bold.
 

Sensung

Registered User
Oct 3, 2017
6,101
3,357
I voted yes and only because I think that Melnyk would look awful to his corporate partners if he didn't follow through.

The corporate partners care about the Senators only because the Senators have fans who watch/spend money on the team. If the owner drives away those fans, he loses corporate support. Melnyk desperately needs corporate support to keep playing the con game: he can't lie to them like he can lie to us.

A cap team gets the sponsors more money, those sponsors don't give a flying **** about "well the UFAs won't stay", they want to make money by spending theirs. If Melnyk promises them a better return on their investment by actually spending more on the roster, the sponsors won't want to hear about the technicalities of what Melnyk actually said two to three years prior; they'll just spend their money elsewhere.
Melnyk would never lie to his investors, right?

The SEC alleges that the executives, "obsessed with meeting quarterly and annual earnings guidance, repeatedly overstated earnings and hid losses in order to deceive investors and create the appearance of achieving earnings goals." When it became impossible to continue concealing Biovail's inability to meet its own earnings guidance, the company "actively misled investors and analysts about the reasons for the company's poor performance," the SEC said.

Regulators accuse Melnyk, others as Biovail settles SEC fraud charge
 
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