Confirmed with Link: Ethan Bear traded to Carolina for Warren Foegele

What Are Your Thoughts on the Ethan Bear for Warren Foegele Trade?


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McClelland

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Aug 2, 2011
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Okay, but Larsson was the RHD who was a defensive d-man, so not sure what Bear has to do with that

Well he has showed that he could take
1 st pair minutes at his best, instead we add 2 big ? to our D corp!
We have a better defence now then we did last season. The last 2 seasons we had Smith/Koskinen in net and they got us to 2nd place in our division each season while having a GAA under 3. Larsson was good this last season but he was a non factor the year before yet we finished 2nd both years. As much as I’d like a stud RD and a more reliable goalie then Koskinen I think we’ll be fine this coming season with the current lineup.

To late to find a starter! Thinking Smith is enoygh to hold on for a 82 season when he has played 30 games the last couple of seasons!

Find a replacer for Koskinen is easier, but dont expect a upgrade! In that spectrum of backups out there, it a big mess and you has to be very lucky finding a decent backup!

16/17 was our best season with Klef/lars beasting and Talbot !

We havent 1 defensiveminded D who can play Pk and defend at a high level at Rh, thats scary!

We have added 2 D who cant handle topminutes anymore, thats the reality!

2 RhD who needs Sheltered minutes, poor Nurse, needs to play 45 minutes a game!
 

Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
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Well he has showed that he could take
1 st pair minutes at his best, instead we add 2 big ? to our D corp!


To late to find a starter! Thinking Smith is enoygh to hold on for a 82 season when he has played 30 games the last couple of seasons!

Find a replacer for Koskinen is easier, but dont expect a upgrade! In that spectrum of backups out there, it a big mess and you has to be very lucky finding a decent backup!

16/17 was our best season with Klef/lars beasting and Talbot !

We havent 1 defensiveminded D who can play Pk and defend at a high level at Rh, thats scary!

We have added 2 D who cant handle topminutes anymore, thats the reality!

2 RhD who needs Sheltered minutes, poor Nurse, needs to play 45 minutes a game!
Don't worry guy. People here get straight up delusional. Quit trying to pull them back to reality.
Yes our right side from a defensive point of view sucks.
The right side forward group ...well actually Pulju is pretty good defensively but both Yamo and Archibald are smaller and Kassian sometimes plays defense.
One way Barrie makes a bad play every second or third time under pressure and Bouchard is a rookie bound to makes mistake while he learns on the job--one day he may be decent defensively but with him his curve will be a couple of years at least. Ceci goes to wall and battles and struggles to get back a lot -- maybe Tippet and coaching can get him to focus on positioning and gap control (actually i think they can). With Ceci I think there is a good quality defensive guy in him but he needs fixing.
Smith played fairly good last year but you know another year...if he can play .910 to .915 over 35 ish games ...thats all we can ask. Who starts the other 45....Kostko....just shoot high glove side.

So given all this strategy for opposing teams (especially ones with good 4th line cyclers that can eat up our top lines minutes) seems pretty obvious.
 
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Anarchism

John Henry
May 23, 2019
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Switching Foegele to the 3RW position ...and finding someone with either a good set of hands (a threat to score) or a guy with vision from LW (able to see and make quality passing) and thus allowing Ryan to play 3C consistently---this would help a fair amount.
There is a chance either Turris or Benson could become relevant here. Odds are against it though. There certainly is a reasonable chance that by the beginning of February we can see Holloway at 3LW.
Russell could sub in for both Barrie and Bouchard a fair amount depending on the style of team were playing-- for example against Minnesota where they have two good defensive lines to match our offensive ones. The question is who plays 3LD when he switches over?
With our right side the way it stands and our present goalie configuration you can pencil in a couple of goals for alot of our opponets.
 
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Trafalgar Sadge Law

Registered User
Nov 8, 2007
11,476
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Switching Foegele to the 3RW position ...and finding someone with either a good set of hands (a threat to score) or a guy with vision from LW (able to see and make quality passing) and thus allowing Ryan to play 3C consistently---this would help a fair amount.
There is a chance either Turris or Benson could become relevant here. Odds are against it though. There certainly is a reasonable chance that by the beginning of February we can see Holloway at 3LW.
Russell could sub in for both Barrie and Bouchard a fair amount depending on the style of team were playing-- for example against Minnesota where they have two good defensive lines to match our offensive ones. The question is who plays 3LD when he switches over?
With our right side the way it stands and our present goalie configuration you can pencil in a couple of goals for alot of our opponets.
We don't need to switch Foegele's wing if Holloway is ready for top 9 LW duty, Hyman is a righty who plays both wings so we just move Hyman over to the right and bump down Poolparty/Yamo to fighting it out between 2nd/3rd line RW, which are more reflective of their current abilities than 1st/2nd line RW anyway.
 

fuswald

I'd Be Fired
Dec 10, 2008
3,044
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I just don't get it. So who is our right side now? Even if we sign Ceci, which isn't guaranteed, our defence is SIGNIFICANTLY worse than last year
Disagree. Larsson was not all that and Bear is not either. We have a few with high upside. Might be quite a bit better other than Bouchard miscues
 
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Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
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Well he has showed that he could take
1 st pair minutes at his best, instead we add 2 big ? to our D corp!


To late to find a starter! Thinking Smith is enoygh to hold on for a 82 season when he has played 30 games the last couple of seasons!

Find a replacer for Koskinen is easier, but dont expect a upgrade! In that spectrum of backups out there, it a big mess and you has to be very lucky finding a decent backup!

16/17 was our best season with Klef/lars beasting and Talbot !

We havent 1 defensiveminded D who can play Pk and defend at a high level at Rh, thats scary!

We have added 2 D who cant handle topminutes anymore, thats the reality!

2 RhD who needs Sheltered minutes, poor Nurse, needs to play 45 minutes a game!

Bear played as a top pairing D for about half a season in 19-20. Bear was a ? D for most of last year, regardless of what people are saying. He was also a tire fire for the second playoffs in a row. He’ll probably settle in with more experience, but the Oilers couldn’t afford to wait for that and got a good player in return.
 

Oilhawks

Oden's Ride Over Nordland
Nov 24, 2011
25,974
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Don't worry guy. People here get straight up delusional. Quit trying to pull them back to reality.
Yes our right side from a defensive point of view sucks.
The right side forward group ...well actually Pulju is pretty good defensively but both Yamo and Archibald are smaller and Kassian sometimes plays defense.
One way Barrie makes a bad play every second or third time under pressure and Bouchard is a rookie bound to makes mistake while he learns on the job--one day he may be decent defensively but with him his curve will be a couple of years at least. Ceci goes to wall and battles and struggles to get back a lot -- maybe Tippet and coaching can get him to focus on positioning and gap control (actually i think they can). With Ceci I think there is a good quality defensive guy in him but he needs fixing.
Smith played fairly good last year but you know another year...if he can play .910 to .915 over 35 ish games ...thats all we can ask. Who starts the other 45....Kostko....just shoot high glove side.

So given all this strategy for opposing teams (especially ones with good 4th line cyclers that can eat up our top lines minutes) seems pretty obvious.

200w.gif


Yup, anyone who doesn’t agree with you all the time is delusional, oh venerated one.
 

LTIR

Registered User
Nov 8, 2013
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Both players are better then freaking Cody Ceci is the point he's making which is true.
How is Bear better than Ceci on ice?
He is younger and cheaper but thats about it. Ceci is bigger, had better numbers, had more TOI, more hits and is in his prime.
Its pretty much a toss up for the next 3 seasons he is signed for.

He was signed for 1M too much and 1 year too many but the player is not a downgrade on someone like Bear.
 

Shanahanigans

Registered User
Jun 16, 2011
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Before we move on from this trade, I wanted to say that I'm still really frustrated by it. It's just bad asset management. 2nd pair right shot Dmen are worth a premium in this league. Don't get me wrong, I like Foegle and think he'll be good for us. But Bear is a 23 year old Dman who's shown he can play 2nd pairing minutes without needing to be sheltered. 1 bad playoffs doesn't change that. I don't buy the notion that he struggled last year- aside from the 5 game stretch post concussion and the 4 games in the playoffs, he was fine the rest of the season. This management and fanbase has a terrible tendency to overvalue small sample sizes, whether good or bad, and make decisions based on that. Trading Eberle after a bad playoffs where he had a career low shooting percentage (He's been PPG in the playoffs ever since). Trading Petry because now Schultz was coming up and had a decent offensive rookie season.

If you believe he struggled last year (I don't; the number show that aside from that post concussion stretch, he was fine) - at worst, you have a player who came in and handled tough, top pair minutes with Nurse in his rookie season, did great, and struggled his sophomore year. At best, you have a 23 year old 5th round pick who came in and posted great 2nd pair results 2 years in a row while playing most of his time AWAY from Mcdavid and Draisaitl. Yes, he had some brutal giveaways. Remember how bad the giveaways Petry and Nurse were making at 23 years old? Only difference is Bear struggled in 4 playoff games and so many were eager to get rid of him. Nurse and Petry were allowed to develop on some bad teams, so their giveaways didn't mean much in the grand scheme of things.

I think Bear is going to play in this league for 10-15 more years. He has all the skills to do so. This isn't about Foegle- I like he'll be a great addition to the team. This is about poor asset management. You don't trade a player like Bear. 5th round pick, right shot D in a league where teams are dying for them, 23 years old, can play tough defensive minutes, and is cheap. He's going to succeed in Carolina and it's going to suck knowing that he could have been that player for us, but we gave up on him because of a bad 4 game sweep.
 

Aceboogie

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Aug 25, 2012
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Foegle is a fine player, but every offseason there are 2-3 guys of his caliber that get signed/traded for pretty cheap. You just have to be good as pro scouting

Bear on the other hand is developing into a player who is very hard to find

The revisionist history on Bear is hilarious (the people saying he had a bad year). Literally every PGT after his rough first 5 games was like "Bear was great, hes look really good the last 2 games, hopefully he keeps it up!". Then this same thing was said 15 games in row, but noone clued in that thats his baseline- hes a good D.

So many PGTs from late March till the end of the year was just the one below: Almost every game, hes was being raved about being the second or best D on the ice. Yet somehow the narrative after the season was that he had a rough year. The stats certaintly dont say that, and reading any PGT doesnt either

upload_2021-8-6_16-2-7.png
 

McDNicks17

Moderator
Jul 1, 2010
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Foegle is a fine player, but every offseason there are 2-3 guys of his caliber that get signed/traded for pretty cheap. You just have to be good as pro scouting

Bear on the other hand is developing into a player who is very hard to find

The revisionist history on Bear is hilarious (the people saying he had a bad year). Literally every PGT after his rough first 5 games was like "Bear was great, hes look really good the last 2 games, hopefully he keeps it up!". Then this same thing was said 15 games in row, but noone clued in that thats his baseline- hes a good D.

So many PGTs from late March till the end of the year was just the one below: Almost every game, hes was being raved about being the second or best D on the ice. Yet somehow the narrative after the season was that he had a rough year. The stats certaintly dont say that, and reading any PGT doesnt either

View attachment 459861

Bear had 5 chances for and 1 against without McDavid on the ice that game. Only 1 of those chances being high danger.

I'm not sure that game is proof of anything.
 
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Mr Positive

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Nov 20, 2013
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Bear definitely has value as a RHD with top 4 upside. Bear represents a massive win for the Oilers in terms of drafting and development.

Foegele doesn't check the same boxes. He is a winger (lowest value position) and a bottom sixer (perhaps just above back up goalie as least important depth).

However, GMs are realizing that these "rules" are not so clear. Young impact bottom sixers are essential to a team's success. Before Foegele, imo Holland did as good a job as one could expect to find bottom sixers in the UFA bargain bin. Our bottom six still brought the whole team down. We needed a player like Foegele very badly. To our team, he was worth more than a RHD with top 4 upside, especially when Barrie expressed desire to return at a good number, and with Bouchard coming.
 

McDoused

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Feb 5, 2007
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Foegle is a fine player, but every offseason there are 2-3 guys of his caliber that get signed/traded for pretty cheap. You just have to be good as pro scouting

Bear on the other hand is developing into a player who is very hard to find

The revisionist history on Bear is hilarious (the people saying he had a bad year). Literally every PGT after his rough first 5 games was like "Bear was great, hes look really good the last 2 games, hopefully he keeps it up!". Then this same thing was said 15 games in row, but noone clued in that thats his baseline- hes a good D.

So many PGTs from late March till the end of the year was just the one below: Almost every game, hes was being raved about being the second or best D on the ice. Yet somehow the narrative after the season was that he had a rough year. The stats certaintly dont say that, and reading any PGT doesnt either

View attachment 459861

I remember this game. After looking terrible he bounced back with one good game. You really showed us.
 

Oilers in NS

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Oct 11, 2017
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Bear played as a top pairing D for about half a season in 19-20. Bear was a ? D for most of last year, regardless of what people are saying. He was also a tire fire for the second playoffs in a row. He’ll probably settle in with more experience, but the Oilers couldn’t afford to wait for that and got a good player in return.
What people need to understand is it gonna be Bouchard or Bear? I understand the sentimental attachment to Bear but we need a bigger, faster, meaner top 9. Foegele will help with this. Bear will be #6 Dman in Carolina at best. Im looking forward to see our forward depth this year.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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What people need to understand is it gonna be Bouchard or Bear? I understand the sentimental attachment to Bear but we need a bigger, faster, meaner top 9. Foegele will help with this. Bear will be #6 Dman in Carolina at best. Im looking forward to see our forward depth this year.

Could have had both and not Ceci at 4 years and more than $3M.
 

hallhopkinseberle

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Jul 14, 2007
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Could have had both and not Ceci at 4 years and more than $3M.
Who replaces Foegele?


Hyman, Foegele, and Ryan were exactly the types of forwards we needed to add this off-season. We have a lot of soft skills, and we need to make the roster more well-rounded upfront. Both guys have great speed and decent skill, great two-way wingers with a great forecheck. Ryan takes the pressure off Drasaitl to be out on those defensive zone draws all the time and adds some secondary scoring. All three are great pkers and have success 5 on 5, replacing Khaira, Shore, etc types who can pk and cant score 5 on 5. Allows for Benson to be in the line-up instead of a Shore.

The defense is a mess mostly because of the Larsson departure. Ceci is a downgrade from Larsson and it's going to hurt. We just gotta hope Bouchard takes a step forward next season. I like the idea of keeping Barrie mostly because it keeps the pressure off Bouchard, lets him learn how to play 5 on 5 hockey, and produce there. Let's not Schultz this guy.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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Who replaces Foegele?

I like the add, but don't like the price. If Bear develops into a top 4 RHD, we lose the trade long term even if Foegele adds value as a middle sixer simply because top 4 RHD are harder to come by.

Mostly I'm just pushing back on the idea that there was simply no room for two good young RHD on the roster so one had to go.
 
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Mr Positive

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I loved Bear and wished we'd keep him too, but I understand the trade.

It is smart to move out assets from a position of strength to bolster a position of weakness. So, regardless if you disliked the return, the principle is sound.

Imo, what made Bear tradeable was Barrie. Barrie was likely supposed to get a payday from another team. That was the deal he struck when he signed on in Edmonton in first place. When he agreed to come back at a good number, that was a free asset, that freed up Holland to trade Bear.

I know that Bear represented the future at RHD, but we still have that in Bouchard.
 
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bucks_oil

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Aug 25, 2005
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I like the add, but don't like the price. If Bear develops into a top 4 RHD, we lose the trade long term even if Foegele adds value as a middle sixer simply because top 4 RHD are harder to come by.

Mostly I'm just pushing back on the idea that there was simply no room for two good young RHD on the roster so one had to go.

I don't mind losing a trade long-term as long as we are winning it short term... I think we did in this case. Overall it was pretty fair value as a hockey trade for both sides... but we need decent, hard to play against forwards during the McDrai tenure and Foegele will help in that regard.
 

Little Fury

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Jun 21, 2006
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I loved Bear and wished we'd keep him too, but I understand the trade.

It is smart to move out assets from a position of strength to bolster a position of weakness. So, regardless if you disliked the return, the principle is sound.

Imo, what made Bear tradeable was Barrie. Barrie was likely supposed to get a payday from another team. That was the deal he struck when he signed on in Edmonton in first place. When he agreed to come back at a good number, that was a free asset, that freed up Holland to trade Bear.

I know that Bear represented the future at RHD, but we still have that in Bouchard.

Is it really a position of strength when you trade one guy and all of a sudden have no depth at that position anymore? If any of our RHD go down, the next guy on the list is Kris Russell on his off side.
 

Little Fury

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I don't mind losing a trade long-term as long as we are winning it short term... I think we did in this case. Overall it was pretty fair value as a hockey trade for both sides... but we need decent, hard to play against forwards during the McDrai tenure and Foegele will help in that regard.

I think it's a wash right now and that's assuming Foegele delivers, which remains to be seen.
 
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