Post-Game Talk: Ethan Bear Hype Train - One Year Delayed, But We’re Finally Here Boys!

snipes

How cold? I’m ice cold.
Dec 28, 2015
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Russell could very well have the worst gap control in the league. People can debate many things about Russell when comes ot eye test vs analytics, but both methods of evaluation will agree his gap control is atrocious. Russell gives up the blue line to avoid getting burnt wide. He mitigates all the room given for shots by being so willing to block those shots. But his gap control throughout his career has been heavily criticized wherever he plays

It’s perplexing then how he blocks so many shots with or off his stick for a guy that has such abysmal gap control.

But, I’m sure you have a preconceived answer for that as well.

Carry on.
 

Aceboogie

Registered User
Aug 25, 2012
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Russell is perfectly fine on his proper left side on the 3rd pairing.

Actually, I’d argue that Russell is one of the better #5 Dmen in the league.

Russell playing on a bottom pairing LD with another vet is fine. Russell is a fine bottom pairing D. Not "best #5D in the league" claiber, but thats opinion/semantics. Id want Bear learning the game from a good vet D with a good well-rounded game. Not from a D who has severe flaws in his game, such as non-existant gap control, the first instinct to rim the puck around the boards/throw it off the glass and out, and the penchant to throw the puck away at the first hint of pressure. Bear should be learning how to be a puck moving D and one who is great at getting the puck to his forwards with control. Russell is not good at this.

Hell, Id be more fine with a Nurse/Bear pairing as at least Nurse has the skills that Id want Bear to learn
 

Aceboogie

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Aug 25, 2012
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It’s perplexing then how he blocks so many shots with or off his stick for a guy that has such abysmal gap control.

But, I’m sure you have a preconceived answer for that as well.

Carry on.

Yeah I do have an answer. He gives up the blue line and gives room for shots. His gap control is not debatable. Its been universally held as poor. Ive shown numerous video examples of his poor gap control and if I continued to do it this season youd probably say "ok we get it, enough piling on Russell." Russell is fine at things, gap control isnt one.

As a D who has played up high level hockey and some Junior hockey- Russells gap control is not good
 
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SwedishFire

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How regarded is Patrik Russel in the leauge? WHen all teams has trimmed their roosters, they will probably not pick up any player from waivers. SO i dont think P Russel is in danger to be grabbed from the Oilers.

But I do think they should send down Nygård as he has more patient to be a good player in the long run, and Nygård can be waived and will be tested later. Haas is more complicated, he doesnt seem to have the same patient, but I do think there is a valuble player for Oilers, he is a center, can skate and take faceoffs. But he demands shorter time in AHL.

I want to say though, players who spend a lot of time in NHL, and not being ready has bigger chances that other teams want to give them a try. Those who go to AHL, and not perform well, even if they are good players, is forgotten.
 

snipes

How cold? I’m ice cold.
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Yeah I do have an answer. He gives up the blue line and gives room for shots. His gap control is not debatable. Its been universally held as poor. Ive shown numerous video examples of his poor gap control and if I continued to do it this season youd probably say "ok we get it, enough piling on Russell." Russell is fine at things, gap control isnt one.

As a D who has played up high level hockey and some Junior hockey- Russells gap control is not good

You’re on some crusade.

Anyways, this is about Bear not Russell.
 
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nexttothemoon

and again...
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I don't think the Oilers will lose a player on waivers... if they for some reason waived Khaira I think he'd be picked off by a team because he has some size/toughness and a reputation for some defensive ability plus in a pinch he can even play C. I don't see them waiving Khaira obviously because they just signed him to an extension.

I don't know if someone like Patrick Russell or Colby Cave would get picked off waivers... I think most teams have a couple Caves/Russells in their org.
 
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Soundwave

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I don't think the Oilers will lose a player on waivers... if they for some reason waived Khaira I think he'd be picked off by a team because he has some size/toughness and a reputation for some defensive ability plus in a pinch he can even play C. I don't see them waiving Khaira obviously because they just signed him to an extension.

I don't know if someone like Patrick Russell or Colby Cave would get picked off waivers... I think most teams have a couple Caves/Russells in their org.

Nope those guys wouldn't get picked up. Every team has a couple of them.
 
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Rafters

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Still think if the oilers want some bottom six scoring then TIppett should run McDavid-Draisaitl-RNH down the middle on there own lines .. give all 3 18-22 mins a game ... put 2 of them together for some shifts and possibly leave McDrai out for the whole 2 mins of the PPs and change out the other 3 guys for the second PP.... give Nuge more PK time ... Let each guy have there own line and shorten the bench when needed

Nygaard-McDavid-Neal/Kassian
Jurco-Draisatl-Kassian/Neal
Granlund-RNH-Chiasson
Khaira-Sheahan-Archibald
Haas/Burd/Cave



Guess Tippet was listening .. looks like he’s running McDavid-Draisaitl-RNH down the middle in practice

Burdasov McDavid Neal
Granlund RNH Kassian
Nygard Draisaitl Chiasson
Khaira Sheahan Archibald
Gagner Haas Jurco
 
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BudBundy

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May 16, 2005
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It’s perplexing then how he blocks so many shots with or off his stick for a guy that has such abysmal gap control.
Because he surrenders the blue line like France surrenders to anybody? He blocks a lot of shots because he needs to.
 

nexttothemoon

and again...
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In a perfect world with good winger depth.. you absolutely run McD/Drai/RNH down the middle.

Obviously that instantly fixes the problem that the Oilers currently have when McD/Drai play together... no proper 3C on the roster.

That also means you don't have to see Cave shoehorned onto the roster every game and have to watch him score a point every 15 games or so.

Do the Oilers finally feel they might have the winger depth to run their big 3 C down the middle? Maybe they want to experiment with that and see if it succeeds or fails... certainly worth a try in the early season here imo.
 
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BudBundy

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Guess Tippet was listening .. looks like he’s running McDavid-Draisaitl-RNH down the middle in practice

Burdasov McDavid Neal
Granlund RNH Kassian
Nygard Draisaitl Chiasson
Khaira Sheahan Archibald
Gagner Haas Jurco
I’ve often thought that running the big 3 down the middle for road games when the opponent has last change held some merit. Much much harder to line match against. Garbage wingers made that a pipe dream, but if Gagner, Kassian, Jurco, Nygard and Neal can get something done.....
 

Raab

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Oct 6, 2007
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Russell could very well have the worst gap control in the league. People can debate many things about Russell when comes ot eye test vs analytics, but both methods of evaluation will agree his gap control is atrocious. Russell gives up the blue line to avoid getting burnt wide. He mitigates all the room given for shots by being so willing to block those shots. But his gap control throughout his career has been heavily criticized wherever he plays

You need to understand hockey is about mitigating high risk chances. This trend towards corsi is/was ridiculous. If you can keep a player to the outside and offer nothing up but a weak shot. Your going to win more games, then you lose. A weak shot is basically a turn over as NHL caliber goalies will stop over 99% of them.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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I think it could take 2 weeks into the season before we know what the forward lines are ... too many question marks.
 

Raab

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Oct 6, 2007
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Yeah, we know, you have a distaste for Russell akin to Raab's distaste for Nurse (and now Bear), but yours is math based.

I have distaste for Bear now because I said he shouldn’t be top pairing? What a joke. I never said I don’t expect him to not make the team. And despite what you say Nurse has major brain farts in the defensive end consistently. The fact he’d rather focus on offence(which doesn’t come naturally to him), tells me all I need to know about the player. He has all the physical traits you’d want in a player, but doesn’t have the defensive drive to learn to shut guys down. Really frustrating as he could be a dominant defensive dman, who can put up 30-40 points a year. AKA a #1, but he doesn’t have the defensive drive to learn that part of the game. The best dmen in the league if you asked them if they’d prefer to score a goal, or stop a goal would most likely say stop a goal. It feels awesome when you can consistently shut down the best players in a league, and frustrate them.
 

Raab

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Oct 6, 2007
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Yeah I do have an answer. He gives up the blue line and gives room for shots. His gap control is not debatable. Its been universally held as poor. Ive shown numerous video examples of his poor gap control and if I continued to do it this season youd probably say "ok we get it, enough piling on Russell." Russell is fine at things, gap control isnt one.

As a D who has played up high level hockey and some Junior hockey- Russells gap control is not good

How often does Russell get beat on the rush for a HDCA? He’s playing it safe, which is fine given his skill level. If we could keep the opposition boxed to the outside, it wouldn’t be an issue. But when some of our players consistently fail to maintain position or pick up dangerous scoring threats. More often then not the puck ends up in the back of the net.
 

Drivesaitl

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Guess Tippet was listening .. looks like he’s running McDavid-Draisaitl-RNH down the middle in practice

Burdasov McDavid Neal
Granlund RNH Kassian
Nygard Draisaitl Chiasson
Khaira Sheahan Archibald
Gagner Haas Jurco

I wanted this and the topnine look when Hall and Eberle and Perron were still here. Not so much now. That actually looks like pretty severe diminished use of both RNH and Drai who would have to be gods to make those lines work.

Nygard and Granlund shouldn't even be in the NHL, not alone in topsix.

Imagine Drai off a 50 goal 100pt season relegated to playing with this seasons current version of Rieder and last years PTO. That still looks like chopped liver to me.

Worse in that config is you demote Gagner and Jurco, who have both shown hands to taxi squad status. When both can be in a topsix.
 
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Soundwave

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I wanted this and the topnine look when Hall and Eberle and Perron were still here. Not so much now. That actually looks like pretty severe diminished use of both RNH and Drai who would have to be gods to make those lines work.

Nygard and Granlund shouldn't even be in the NHL, not alone in topsix.

Imagine Drai off a 50 goal 100pt season relegated to playing with this seasons current version of Rieder and last years PTO. That still looks like chopped liver to me.

Worse in that config is you demote Gagner and Jurco, who have both shown hands to taxi squad status. When both can be in a topsix.

Granlund's scored 39 goals the last 3 seasons while missing like 45 games in that stretch ... I know people have a hard on for hating on him, but he's definitely an NHL player.
 

Drivesaitl

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Granlund's scored 39 goals the last 3 seasons while missing like 45 games in that stretch ... I know people have a hard on for hating on him, but he's definitely an NHL player.

He's -34 in the same stretch and anytime watched, looks like the worst player on his team and a guy out there absolutely dogging it. His play in Vancouver was disgusting to such a degree that any opponent fan loved that he was on the ice at all.

He's an awful player due to his non compete. Its like watching a player that is depressed and doesn't even care enough to be here.

A team is literally better off with no goal Rieder in the lineup than Granlund scoring 8 and getting buried.
 

nexttothemoon

and again...
Jan 30, 2010
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Jurco is just as likely to be this year's Rattie as he is to score 30+ pts.

I wouldn't be too high on him yet... further looks sure.. but writing him into the top 6 is premature.
 

Soundwave

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Mar 1, 2007
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Jurco is just as likely to be this year's Rattie as he is to score 30+ pts.

I wouldn't be too high on him yet... further looks sure.. but writing him into the top 6 is premature.

I want him to do well, but yeah. If he does not show well in the first 2 regular season games, think he is press boxed awfully quick for Nygard or Burdasov.

And same thing applies to them.
 

nexttothemoon

and again...
Jan 30, 2010
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Neal is -26 over the past 3 seasons (playing on good teams every season)... yet we are all shitting ourselves with delight with the offense he's going to bring to the roster (which I also think he will).

Truth is there's really very few players on this roster with zero warts outside of an obvious select proven few... Granlund is just the next in the long line of players ready to be bashed for not passing the collective eye test... yet he could prove to be a very useful player if used in the correct role/situation/minutes.
 

Soundwave

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He's -34 in the same stretch and anytime watched, looks like the worst player on his team and a guy out there absolutely dogging it. His play in Vancouver was disgusting to such a degree that any opponent fan loved that he was on the ice at all.

He's an awful player due to his non compete. Its like watching a player that is depressed and doesn't even care enough to be here.

A team is literally better off with no goal Rieder in the lineup than Granlund scoring 8 and getting buried.

He was only -4 last season, the Canucks have been rebuilding for a few years, I wouldn't expect anyone's +/- to be that great.

The Oilers not having anyone score 10+ goals in the bottom 6 is demoralizing, it kills the team going out there knowing "well Connor and Leon have to do it all", it's an incredibly awful mindset that sinks in.

Look I'd love a spectacular option there for 1.3 million ... the reality is that doesn't exist in the NHL, you may as well go to a car dealership and try to get a Ferrari for $10k while you're at it.

An extra 10-13 goals from the bottom six via Granlund might give you an extra 2-3 points in a season. Not that big of a deal maybe, but then add an extra 10 from maybe Archibald. Another 2-3 points. Then maybe add a couple more with Neal outscoring Lucic.

All of the sudden 79 points is maybe 86-87, now if Smith outplays last year's version of Talbot, you got yourself a chance at least. Everyone wants some spectacular option that's going to come in and blow the doors off, honestly it's likely not going to work that way.
 
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Drivesaitl

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Jurco is just as likely to be this year's Rattie as he is to score 30+ pts.

I wouldn't be too high on him yet... further looks sure.. but writing him into the top 6 is premature.

Why such a marked difference in opinion between Jurco and Granlund. Both have been NHL players. only one is in apparent ascension, and it sure isn't Granlund who has been sleep walking and depressed through seasons in Vancouver and couldn't even get excited playing in a youth movement on a competitive hard working squad. The guy has no pulse. What I CAN'T forgive, and Connor can't, is guys sleep walking that don't want to be here.

Granlund is all that. He should be cut already.
 

nexttothemoon

and again...
Jan 30, 2010
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Jurco has just 17 pts in his last 102 "real" NHL games... and -17 over that stretch as well.

If the Oilers had a 26 year old prospect like that having come up in their own system... we'd be saying that's a total bust and be wanting to send him to Siberia... but with Jurco... we are expecting that to be a top 6 talent on this team.
 

Drivesaitl

Time to Drive
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Jurco has just 17 pts in his last 102 "real" NHL games... and -17 over that stretch as well.

If the Oilers had a 26 year old prospect like that having come up in their own system... we'd be saying that's a total bust and be wanting to send him to Siberia... but with Jurco... we are expecting that to be a top 6 talent on this team.

Ascendency. Recency.

Jurco had 6G 4A 10pts in just 29 GP with Chicago last season being utilized around 12mins/night.

Those ALL being EV points.

Jurco has been on the whole the best Oilers forward, and arguably best player throughout the TC.

I want to believe, sure, and still have that in me, but Jurco is giving every fan the kind of performance that makes one want to believe.

I think he could fit. I watch the player, the confidence, the skill on display, the willingness to work to get into right areas and reading where those are. On one of the goals last night Jurco not only scores, he was the one that pressured the D mistake behind the net. He did both.

Jurco has been so good here in the games that literally every game thread people talking about his play. His constant play. His every shift play. I'll get behind that everytime.
 
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