Espo on Tretiak

[Kaizer]

Yes, he has. Espo hates Soviets (Russians) with passion. But he got a real punishment for that. If I remember his daughter married Russian player in Florida

Does this player have some relationship with Tretiak ?

 

[Kaizer]

Yeah ...
Kaizer, that was the answer that I knew in advance Of course, a lot of people think differently.

Yep, they kept inviting them just because it's fun to lose at home arena and fans to AHL-level scrubs. I bet only team they fought hard was against Dynamo Riga .. the only series they won. just kidding

The USSR teams vs. NHL team games lost relevance after the first few years. They were really cool at first - the game between Montreal and the Red Army in 1975 is going to be viewed as a classic as long as hockey is played - but to cite exhibition games as an example of dominance is foolishness.

Do you know another method to compare leagues without calling russian league "Joke" or "Scraps" because of "lol..told ya so" ? I don't and didt't even try before. Like it or not but it's stil better than comparision based on "told ya so".

 

[Hunter Gathers]

LOL.

I don't think Esposito cares about or even remembers those games.

The World Championships is still considered unimporant by Canadian players. We have NEVER sent our best team and many players choose not to go simply because they don't care.

Maybe you should've brought better players and the Russians wouldn't have as much to brag about. Frankly, they won and they deserve to brag about it. Who cares what team you guys brought? If you don't care about it, why bother defending the level of players that were brought?

 

[Hank19]

Anyone else hear Espo's mini-rant on Tretriak on xm today?

They were talking about the Hall of Fame and what criteria should be considered, and Espo railed against Tretiak for a few minutes.

Paraphrasing:

"Why is Tretiak in the Hall? What did he ever do"
Asked if he thought Tretiak was a good goalie: "No. I'd play him 80 times a year if I could."

And he said a few more things I can't remember completely. Pretty strong opinions of a guy who's viewed as one of the best ever by many people.

I heard that too and I completely agree. Many of the players from that Team Canada squad said that once they figured out the Russians they lit Tretiak up. The dude had a 3.87 GAA and was abysmal in the last 3 games.
And what did Tretiak do before that series? He was apart of a team that beat on amatuers for a handful of Olympic games. The fact that a group of college kids from the US got to him tells you all you need to know.
I'm not saying Tretiak is a bad goalie but I think he's the most overrated of them all.

Espo also mentioned how Tretiak loved to play in the back of his net. Snipers in the NHL like Espo, Hull and others would have eaten him alive in the NHL if he had come over.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I think Tretiak belongs in the HHOF, and I think he's one of the top 10 goalies ever. In the biggest event in hockey history - the 1972 Summit Series - he was spectacular. In the game that many consider to be the best ever played - the 1975 New Year's Eve game - he was the difference-maker.

Tretiak was excellent during the four games in Canada, but during the final 3 games of the series he was far from spectacular, he was below average to be kind (.843 sv%).

Not to mention getting yanked, for giving up two brtual goals to the US in 1980

 

[espo*]

Maybe you should've brought better players and the Russians wouldn't have as much to brag about. Frankly, they won and they deserve to brag about it. Who cares what team you guys brought? If you don't care about it, why bother defending the level of players that were brought?

Are'nt the playoffs on at that time Presrip?

The worlds at that time are a joke,they had their best teams there against B teams from here sent together at the last moment. whats to brag about beating up on inferior competition each and every year? I'd be impressed if Russian teams dominated the way they did then today but they can't even win the damn thing these days because they are in the boat as everyone else with sending players.Shows you how uneven that competition was in those days.Unless it's the economy argument anyone wants to buy,lol

Brag..................about what?.It was close to taking candy from a baby when their top competitior sends an inferior team under such haphazard conditions.



Big f'in deal.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Maybe you should've brought better players and the Russians wouldn't have as much to brag about. Frankly, they won and they deserve to brag about it. Who cares what team you guys brought? If you don't care about it, why bother defending the level of players that were brought?

I guess I should brag about the four goals I scored on my son when we played road hockey on the weekend?!?!?!?

The point is, when the Soviet Union existed, (this applies to all Communist countries) it was very important to them to prove that their system was the best way. They liked to prove this by winning sporting events of a global scope.

That is fine but, pointing to tournments where many of the world's best players do not participate and making that your case for being considered great, is pretty weak.

In the biggest series of his life - one of the few he played against the best competition in the world - he had a GAA of 3.88.

Tretiak was a good goalie but, if he was in the NHL, he would definitely have been behind Parent, Dryden, Esposito and maybe one or two others, such as Vachon.

 

[Kaizer]

I heard that too and I completely agree. Many of the players from that Team Canada squad said that once they figured out the Russians they lit Tretiak up. The dude had a 3.87 GAA and was abysmal in the last 3 games.

Ken Dryden.. one of the greatest.. Vezina winner ... legend ... had 6.00 GAA. I don't understand one thing. All games USSR lost, according this thread, it's because of Tretiak. Everything they won, it's because of team in front of him .. strange but still year later at Canada Cup he had 1.33GAA and only game he sit USSR lost 3-7.

And what did Tretiak do before that series?

He maried and finished school year ago

The fact that a group of college kids from the US got to him tells you all you need to know.

In 1982 team with Gretzky, Gainey, Lowe, Hawerchuk, Smit, Clarke, Sittler, Gartner, Millen in the net and others played 3:3 game against Italy. The fact that a group of ECHL-level or even lower players from Italy got to Team Canada with Gretzky, Hawerchuk and Clarke tells you all you need to know.

 

[Paxton Fettel]

Italian mafia ...

 

[Kaizer]

I guess I should brag about the four goals I scored on my son when we played road hockey on the weekend?!?!?!?

You should sent your CV before Olympic Games to hockeycanada.ca in case they will play with Switzerland next time

In the biggest series of his life - one of the few he played against the best competition in the world - he had a GAA of 3.88.

In the biggest series of his life when he was in his prime he had 1.33 GAA. He had 3.88, you mentioned, when he was 19 only.

 

[bones21212]

tretiak wouldnt need to worry about schedule length.....remember gang, his rights were owned by montreal, so he would have split time with that other guy.....what was his name....dryden or something like that?

i always thought the hall was for NHL players only ( ive never been there so i havent seen any of the displays ), if thats the case, espo is right, seeing as how tretiak never played in the NHL. if its open to all players, then espo is dead wrong. help me out here, who is elegible for the hall?

 

[Ogopogo*]

Ken Dryden.. one of the greatest.. Vezina winner ... legend ... had 6.00 GAA. .

Yes, Dryden played horrible during that series. As a Canadian, he was embarrassing.

But, Dryden also proved his worth with a decade of play against the world's best in the NHL. Tretiak did not.

 

[mcphee]

Yep, they kept inviting them just because it's fun to lose at home arena and fans to AHL-level scrubs. I bet only team they fought hard was against Dynamo Riga .. the only series they won. just kidding


Do you know another method to compare leagues without calling russian league "Joke" or "Scraps" because of "lol..told ya so" ? I don't and didt't even try before. Like it or not but it's stil better than comparision based on "told ya so".

In discussing Soviet hockey and I'm not particularly knowledgeable, I've always assumed that the league was top loaded. Whether it was Dynamo, Red Army, the league was structured so that the majority of players who would play on the national team, would play together on a club team. Was this not the case ?

It doesn't discredit the Soviet players,but it makes league results less meaningful.imo.

 

[mcphee]

Yes, Dryden played horrible during that series. As a Canadian, he was embarrassing.

But, Dryden also proved his worth with a decade of play against the world's best in the NHL. Tretiak did not.

I remember in one of the videos about the 72 series, Serge Savard saying that Dryden never played a great 'Dryden' style game against the Soviets, for whatever reason. He didn't excel New Year's Eve 75 either.

 

[John Flyers Fan]

I remember in one of the videos about the 72 series, Serge Savard saying that Dryden never played a great 'Dryden' style game against the Soviets, for whatever reason. He didn't excel New Year's Eve 75 either.

His style wasn't a great fit for the Soviets. Using his size and angles to come out and challenge shooters. Soviets didn't play the game that way, it was much more about staying in your net, lateral movement, etc ... things that weren't Dryden's strenghts.

 

[Kaizer]

In discussing Soviet hockey and I'm not particularly knowledgeable, I've always assumed that the league was top loaded. Whether it was Dynamo, Red Army, the league was structured so that the majority of players who would play on the national team, would play together on a club team. Was this not the case ?

It was. "National team always at first place at every level" menatlity. Of course the way CSKA formed was absurd but this also shows how deep level of talent was when teams like Spartak or Krylia Sovetov even after this always were a danger for CSKA..

 

[mcphee]

He maried and finished school year ago


.

Legend has it that the one game the Canadian scouts were allowed to see, was Tretiak and co. the day after his 'bachelor party'.

 

[Kaizer]

Yes, Dryden played horrible during that series. As a Canadian, he was embarrassing.

But, Dryden also proved his worth with a decade of play against the world's best in the NHL. Tretiak did not.

Tretiak proved it in USSR at World Championships against Italy and he survived against all-mighty college kids. Dryden did not.

 

[Kaizer]

Legend has it that the one game the Canadian scouts were allowed to see, was Tretiak and co. the day after his 'bachelor party'.

It's not a legend and scout was from Toronto

 

[Hank19]

Ken Dryden.. one of the greatest.. Vezina winner ... legend ... had 6.00 GAA. I don't understand one thing. All games USSR lost, according this thread, it's because of Tretiak. Everything they won, it's because of team in front of him .. strange but still year later at Canada Cup he had 1.33GAA and only game he sit USSR lost 3-7.


He maried and finished school year ago


In 1982 team with Gretzky, Gainey, Lowe, Hawerchuk, Smit, Clarke, Sittler, Gartner, Millen in the net and others played 3:3 game against Italy. The fact that a group of ECHL-level or even lower players from Italy got to Team Canada with Gretzky, Hawerchuk and Clarke tells you all you need to know.

And how old were those kids? In their early, early 20's? I know that's still pathetic but when you consider that the team the US college kids beat was full of 30 something vets who've played together for over 10 years, that says something.

Like many mentioned here already, Team Canada in 1972 was thrown together in a whime. Those players had spent the summer drinking beer and fishing. They also had never played together. Meanwhile, you've got a Soviet team that played together for years and year round. Add in the horrendous officiating and the horrible treatment of our players while they were over there and it's a minor miracle we escaped with 3 wins.
If team Canada had been given a few more months to train together that series would have been incredibly lopsided. Tretiak was and is still overrated to an extreme degree. He did nothing in his career except tend goal for a Professional allstar team against other countries B and C squads.

 

[Ogopogo*]

You should sent your CV before Olympic Games to hockeycanada.ca in case they will play with Switzerland next time



In the biggest series of his life when he was in his prime he had 1.33 GAA. He had 3.88, you mentioned, when he was 19 only.

What series did he have the 1.33?

In the 1976 Canada Cup, the Soviets had a team GAA of 2.80 and in the 1981 Canada Cup they had a team GAA of 2.60.

Tretiak was the best goaltender in 1981 but he was behind Esposito in 1972 and Vachon in 1976.

Good goalie but not the greatest goalie.

 

[mcphee]

It was. "National team always at first place at every level" menatlity. Of course the way CSKA formed was absurd but this also shows how deep level of talent was when teams like Spartak or Krylia Sovetov even after this always were a danger for CSKA..

Middle of the pack teams would tour NA, often play Junior teams, sometimes bolstered Jr. teams. I remember, an old Jacques Plante winning one for the Jr. Canadiens against a touring Soviet team. Plante stood on his head and pretty well won on his own.

In 73, I think, the Mtl Jr's were joined by Larry Robinson, [then in the AHL] for a game. I guess the Soviets didn't realize it was full contact because Robinson caught 2 players at center with their heads down. Classic open ice hip checks. The game was delayed about 10 minutes while they discussed this big gangly,curly haired kid knocking their forwards into the next week. It was Robinson though, both clean hits.

 

[Ogopogo*]

Tretiak proved it in USSR at World Championships against Italy and he survived against all-mighty college kids. Dryden did not.

At least you have a sense of humor.

 

[Kaizer]

And how old were those kids? In their early, early 20's? I know that's still pathetic but when you consider that the team the US college kids beat was full of 30 something vets who've played together for over 10 years, that says something..

1982. Italy. Gretzky and Clark. 3:3.

Like many mentioned here already, Team Canada in 1972 was thrown together in a whime. Those players had spent the summer drinking beer and fishing. They also had never played together. Meanwhile, you've got a Soviet team that played together for years and year round ... If team Canada had been given a few more months to train together that series would have been incredibly lopsided.

Excuse sounds like russian nucler missiles were targeted to Montreal and were ready to start in case Team Canada gathered earlier than 1 week before 1st game of the series.

Tretiak was and is still overrated to an extreme degree. He did nothing in his career except tend goal for a Professional allstar team against other countries B and C squads

B squad is Team Canada at Challenge Cup and C squad is Team Canada at Canada Cup in 1981 ?

 

[Kaizer]

What series did he have the 1.33?

Canada Cup 1981.

1981 Canada Cup they had a team GAA of 2.60.

The key word is a team. Only game he didn't play USSR lost 3-7.

Tretiak was the best goaltender in 1981 but he was behind Esposito in 1972 and Vachon in 1976.

Yep, he was the best in 1981 and was ahead of Dryden in 1972. He was only 19 in 1972.