ESPN's Burnside: Hulsizer submitted new deal; COG city manager dragging it out

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
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Who is going to own the team in Hamilton? There is absolutely no way that it would be Jim Balsillie. Not this team and not anytime soon.
Honestly, maybe the league should talk the the rest of Rim. There are also people from the GTA that would own a team, if the NHL pulled a Seattle and pestered them.
 

Confucius

There is no try, Just do
Feb 8, 2009
21,890
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Toronto
Is there anyone here who really, honestly thinks this situation is going to work out and the team will stay in Arizona long-term?

...or are we all expecting this thing to drag on to next spring with no resolution, followed by either a vote for wasting another $25m or a relocation?

As long as Glendale kicks in 25 million per year. The team stays.

Final Answer
:laugh:
 

berklon

Registered User
Dec 24, 2008
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Who is going to own the team in Hamilton? There is absolutely no way that it would be Jim Balsillie. Not this team and not anytime soon.

I'm not saying that a team is coming to Hamilton (or even has a chance now), but if/when the NHL decides to put a team in Hamilton (or anywhere in Southern Ontario really) - it won't be too hard to find someone who will want to own the team.
 

Pinkfloyd

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Oct 29, 2006
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I'm not saying that a team is coming to Hamilton (or even has a chance now), but if/when the NHL decides to put a team in Hamilton (or anywhere in Southern Ontario really) - it won't be too hard to find someone who will want to own the team.

I beg to differ. It's going to require a lot of money to not only buy a team but also renovate Copps or get a new one built. While the franchise should operate very well in Hamilton, it's going to cost a lot of money to make it happen and I don't think anyone is going to front that much money since it will also include paying off the Leafs, paying off the Sabres, and doing a lot of work to have the NHL's support on it. Hamilton is much too difficult to make happen due to the politics surrounding it.
 

GKJ

Global Moderator
Feb 27, 2002
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If Hulsizer finally decides he wants in on the Blues, watch Glendale and Bettman scramble like bees after their nest gets knocked down
 

goyotes

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May 4, 2007
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Arizona
This is like trying to squeeze the last ounce of toothpaste out of the tube. The fans who did care about the Coyotes have been put through the wringer with this nonsense for over 2 years. I think the fight has been kicked out of most of them. Glendale doesn't have a clue if they think another year of a team without ownership is going to leave any asset that anyone would be willing to buy for more than a bag of pucks. They have contributed to making a deal even less feasible with the delays they have caused for 2 years.

Fans just don't abide this well, even in the best of markets. There is just too many other teams to follow and things to do in Arizona. We have the four major sports, two major college programs, NASCAR, the PGA, and all kinds of outdoor offerings from hiking and mountain biking, to boating and fishing. In the winter we can snow ski in the morning, and be home to sit by the pool before dinner. In markets like this, sports (of all kinds) need to compete for attention. For even truly die-hards fans like me that are transplants from traditional markets, my level of interest in the Coyotes is at an all-time low.

I know the team is here for next year. I will enjoy NHL hockey here while I can, and then take in a Sharks game when I travel to San Francisco, a Hawks game when in Chicago, and a Rangers game when in New York.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
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The fans who did care about the Coyotes have been put through the wringer with this nonsense for over 2 years. I think the fight has been kicked out of most of them........ take in a Sharks game when I travel to San Francisco, a Hawks game when in Chicago, and a Rangers game when in New York.

Does Glendale just not understand this?. If indeed Hulsizer has a new offer on the table deal with it, deal with it NOW & get it over with. What the Hell part of your post, a common refrain amongst virtually every single Yotes fan, dont they understand?. Sheer madness...... as for the rest, you wont find NHL hockey in San Francisco, you wont fond a Stan Makita Donut Shop in Chicago, and you wont find a Saloon in Manhattan, so dont bother lookin.
 

berklon

Registered User
Dec 24, 2008
1,542
359
I beg to differ. It's going to require a lot of money to not only buy a team but also renovate Copps or get a new one built.

The renovation money for Copps won't come from any potential owner (unless they're feeling generous). The city owns the arena and if they're interested in seeing a team play in this city - the taxpayers will be footing the bill.
 

Dado

Guest
If indeed Hulsizer has a new offer on the table deal with it, deal with it NOW & get it over with.

I guess the flip side is they aren't really paying anymore than they would be under the failed Hulsizer deal anyway, so why do more than they've already done?

The arena has a major tenant with no threat to leave, from CoGs perspective, maybe this really is about as good as it gets for hockey near Phoenix.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,238
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Folsom
The renovation money for Copps won't come from any potential owner (unless they're feeling generous). The city owns the arena and if they're interested in seeing a team play in this city - the taxpayers will be footing the bill.

And the owner will still be footing bills to pay the city to play there. Either way, it's part of a big sum of money that not a lot of people have let alone be willing to pony it up. Outside of Balsillie, who has even suggested that they would do it for Hamilton?
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
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PF has you there Berklon. Aside James who else. Everyone says there has been three groups for Hamilton, but outside the James no other group has come forward.
 

Melrose Munch

Registered User
Mar 18, 2007
23,546
2,006
This is like trying to squeeze the last ounce of toothpaste out of the tube. The fans who did care about the Coyotes have been put through the wringer with this nonsense for over 2 years. I think the fight has been kicked out of most of them. Glendale doesn't have a clue if they think another year of a team without ownership is going to leave any asset that anyone would be willing to buy for more than a bag of pucks. They have contributed to making a deal even less feasible with the delays they have caused for 2 years.

Fans just don't abide this well, even in the best of markets. There is just too many other teams to follow and things to do in Arizona. We have the four major sports, two major college programs, NASCAR, the PGA, and all kinds of outdoor offerings from hiking and mountain biking, to boating and fishing. In the winter we can snow ski in the morning, and be home to sit by the pool before dinner. In markets like this, sports (of all kinds) need to compete for attention. For even truly die-hards fans like me that are transplants from traditional markets, my level of interest in the Coyotes is at an all-time low.

I know the team is here for next year. I will enjoy NHL hockey here while I can, and then take in a Sharks game when I travel to San Francisco, a Hawks game when in Chicago, and a Rangers game when in New York.
Good luck to you. The NHL and NBA are starting to resemble circuses.
 

berklon

Registered User
Dec 24, 2008
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359
PF has you there Berklon. Aside James who else. Everyone says there has been three groups for Hamilton, but outside the James no other group has come forward.

I stated:

"... if/when the NHL decides to put a team in Hamilton (or anywhere in Southern Ontario really) - it won't be too hard to find someone who will want to own the team."

Has the NHL shown any intention of accepting another team in Hamilton/Southern Ontario? No. Then no-one will come out and waste their time and effort (other than JB trying the backdoor method) because they know the obstacles involved.

Anyways, we're off-topic. The discussion should be centered around the fairy-tale of Hulsizer (or anyone) buying the team and keeping it in Phoenix.
 

Pinkfloyd

Registered User
Oct 29, 2006
70,238
13,610
Folsom
I stated:

"... if/when the NHL decides to put a team in Hamilton (or anywhere in Southern Ontario really) - it won't be too hard to find someone who will want to own the team."

Has the NHL shown any intention of accepting another team in Hamilton/Southern Ontario? No. Then no-one will come out and waste their time and effort (other than JB trying the backdoor method) because they know the obstacles involved.

Anyways, we're off-topic. The discussion should be centered around the fairy-tale of Hulsizer (or anyone) buying the team and keeping it in Phoenix.

From what I've seen, there hasn't been anyone willing to do what the NHL has asked to even make progress towards that end. It's not going to happen overnight and it didn't happen overnight for Winnipeg but they waited patiently and did right by the NHL. If someone's true goal was the NHL in Hamilton, they can do it but they won't be able to make it happen overnight. If your best bet is a guy that did not have the patience to make it right for the league, then it's never going to happen because you don't have the right ownership group.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
....this really is about as good as it gets for hockey near Phoenix.

If this is As Good as it Gets, then this team is definitely headed for a road trip from which it wont ever return.
Maybe Melvin Udall can play goal.....
 

davemac1313

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
524
0
Keewatin, Ontario
Appears Scruggs is all put out by the negativity around here......

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/westsideinsider/130885

“I want a presentation of the facts and let the seven members of the City Council decide how to use it,†Scruggs said. “Let's think of a way to restore the public's confidence.â€

Shouldn't the facts have all been presented....prior to the 50 million investment.....just my opinion....they all VOTED on it.....

Damn...not that I have a reason to care about the outcome anymore....but sounds like another council meeting is on my horizon...beats the crap outta other reality TV
 

Bob1321

Registered User
Feb 13, 2008
517
39
I expect it to continue to drag on as long as the city continues to give the NHL 25 million. Or at least until someone comes forward with a solution in terms of relocation. I don't think QC is a viable alternative until their arena is done in 2015, right? From what I know, the Colisee is not a viable stopgap arena. So then where do you go? There's nobody around with interest and an arena ready to go.

sorry, but the colisée need 10M $ of reparation to be NHL viable during the construction of the new one ;)

So if we can have a team for 2012-2013 season, we will be ready !
 

Koss

Registered User
Appears Scruggs is all put out by the negativity around here......

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/westsideinsider/130885

“I want a presentation of the facts and let the seven members of the City Council decide how to use it,†Scruggs said. “Let's think of a way to restore the public's confidence.â€

Shouldn't the facts have all been presented....prior to the 50 million investment.....just my opinion....they all VOTED on it.....

Damn...not that I have a reason to care about the outcome anymore....but sounds like another council meeting is on my horizon...beats the crap outta other reality TV

SO the $25M to NHL is not to cover loses, it is to manage the arena and book entertainment. Ummm , is a professional sports league ran out of New York the best people to hire to book the Sheryl Crow concert for a 250,000 city in Arizona?
 

Mungman

It's you not me.
Mar 27, 2011
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0
Outside the Asylum
SO the $25M to NHL is not to cover loses, it is to manage the arena and book entertainment. Ummm , is a professional sports league ran out of New York the best people to hire to book the Sheryl Crow concert for a 250,000 city in Arizona?

Based on past experience, assuming that this decision was made logically, the answer is a definite yes.
 

davemac1313

Registered User
Jan 20, 2011
524
0
Keewatin, Ontario
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/westsideinsider/130889

A new deal to be discussed, perhaps in Executive session (not open to the public)...does that not just fly in the face of what Scruggs was advocating yesterday?? I think Beasley has finally done a little fact checking on the 500 million claim and realized that he can't support it with real facts, only optimistic projections. Realistically at a minimum, COG needs to find a formula that saves the annual arena interest payment and the 25 million management fee...right now in reality they are investing 30+ million to keep hockey. Sell the arena to the NHL for 100 million, and retain the parking rights, so they can pay the interest on the remaining debt, under an agreement that the NHL guarantees to ice an NHL team for 10 years. Between tax income and parking income the city realizes its goals, and is relieved of 100 million in debt. The NHL has a facility/team they can bundle and sell for 300 million, recovering their investment, and a new owner has the only feasible business model for this market, complete control of the income streams to support hockey. If a team couldn't make it under those conditions it never will.
 

RandR

Registered User
May 15, 2011
1,901
411
Sell the arena to the NHL for 100 million, and retain the parking rights, so they can pay the interest on the remaining debt, under an agreement that the NHL guarantees to ice an NHL team for 10 years. Between tax income and parking income the city realizes its goals, and is relieved of 100 million in debt. The NHL has a facility/team they can bundle and sell for 300 million, recovering their investment...
I agree with much of the rest of your post; however the NHL is not in the business of buying and reselling arenas -- the BoG would never go for that.

If an NHL franchise is financially viable in Phoenix (questionable), and if Glendale was willing to sell the arena (quite possible), and if someone was interested in buying the bundle (also questionable), then the league would gladly work with the city to package the NHL's team along with Glendale's building.
 

kdb209

Registered User
Jan 26, 2005
14,870
6
http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/westsideinsider/130889

A new deal to be discussed, perhaps in Executive session (not open to the public)...does that not just fly in the face of what Scruggs was advocating yesterday?? I think Beasley has finally done a little fact checking on the 500 million claim and realized that he can't support it with real facts, only optimistic projections. Realistically at a minimum, COG needs to find a formula that saves the annual arena interest payment and the 25 million management fee...right now in reality they are investing 30+ million to keep hockey. Sell the arena to the NHL for 100 million, and retain the parking rights, so they can pay the interest on the remaining debt, under an agreement that the NHL guarantees to ice an NHL team for 10 years. Between tax income and parking income the city realizes its goals, and is relieved of 100 million in debt. The NHL has a facility/team they can bundle and sell for 300 million, recovering their investment, and a new owner has the only feasible business model for this market, complete control of the income streams to support hockey. If a team couldn't make it under those conditions it never will.

There is nothing 'Yotes related on the Agenda for Tues' (6/14) Council Meeting - there is not even an executive session scheduled.

The next meeting is a Council Workshop on 6/21.

edit: It looks like it may be discussed in executive session at the Workshop.

Councilman Phil Lieberman hopes to get an update on Hulsizer or other potential buyers during a closed-door session on June 21.
 

Killion

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
36,763
3,211
SO the $25M to NHL is not to cover loses, it is to manage the arena and book entertainment. Ummm , is a professional sports league ran out of New York the best people to hire to book the Sheryl Crow concert for a 250,000 city in Arizona?

Apparently not. You would think with all of the expertise available from almost any one of the other 29 clubs that the NHL would bring in a consultant to assist with non-HR event bookings for the job as an interim measure to mitigate losses. Instead, they appear to be doing little to nothing. Woefully inadequate. No doubt there excuse is that a "deal is imminent so we dont want to make any commitments that may complicate a closing". B&#**s+it. I would also like to remind you that Glendale sits on the edge of a far larger market than 260,000+ as your well aware. If that was all they had to rely upon then ya, BIG problem.
 

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