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TexSen

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This wasn't a "well thought out" hypothetical league.....this was long-a$$ time waster by John Buccigross to justify his wet dream to have a team back in Hartford now that he follows the NHL.....
 

Cawz

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Steve L said:
No but the biggest competition on the world, The World Cup of football is decided by penalties.
Nice point.

I don’t see why its that bad of an idea to have your superstars, the players fans pay to see, the players that make up most of your payroll, decide 15% of the games that are still tied after OT.

Everyone complains about the clutching and grabbing by marginal players, then others complain because they are excluded from the deciding factor in a small number of games over the season that would have been anti-climactic anyways.

4 on 4 overtime is a bastardized version of real hockey that is used to decide games. How many people have a problem with that?

Its not perfect, but its more exciting than ending in a tie. Isnt excitement what everyone wants? Shootouts are already used in hockey, so its not like its some fandangled new idea like a 10th inning HR derby.

This topics always good for debate. Oh, in response to the thread, I cant believe ESPN has 2 teams in Alberta and only 1 in Ontario. Ha.
 

NJD Jester

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ScottyBowman said:
Their is nothing worse than investing 3 hours of your evening and the game results in a tie.

Ever hear of a loss?

Those are really disappointing.

Maybe ESPNHL can legislate losses out of hockey. You know, make it so there no losers.

We can call those games "ties."

<JESTER>
 

Crosbyfan

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gonzopher said:
Addendum 6: Reflective (i.e. one-way-opaque) visors mandated for ugly players ...

.

Didn't they make someone do that at the recent WJC's?
:D
 

NJD Jester

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Cawz said:
4 on 4 overtime is a bastardized version of real hockey that is used to decide games. How many people have a problem with that?

I don't. I think it's a fine way to end a regular season game, because you're increasing the chances that the game won't go another 60 minutes by taking off two players, opening up the ice and helping both teams offensively. If you played 4-on-4 for 20 minutes, you're going to see a goal more often than not.

As far as it being "a bastardized version of real hockey," I'd take it 100 times before I took a shootout. Because at least 4-on-4 has defensemen playing defense, and passing -- two things that are as much a part of hockey as frozen water, but are absent in a shootout.

You know, the shootout is actually a perfect fit for Bettman's NHL -- he hasn't marketed defense for 12 years, and now he's found a way to eliminate it all together!

<JESTER>
 

Sinurgy

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But again the NHL seems focused on catering to 'casual fans'. For once, it would be nice if the league listened to the longtime fans.

Here, here!!
 

Beukeboom Fan

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Go Flames Go said:
This idea is truly a gimmick league, they Americans are taking our game and making it into there own little circus.

Could you please stop with "Americans are killing the game." I'm a HUGE hockey fan, and I happen to be from the United States. I am NOT for the more extreme measure that ESPN is talking about (specifically the shoot-out & ban on fighting). It's not American's trying to bastardize the sport, it's a TV network trying to make the sport more casual fan friendly.
 

two out of three*

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If at the end of regulation there is a tie.. They should have a 5 min 3-on-3 OT. I know thats not the way hockey is supposed to be, but that would be highly entertaining.

I posted a suggestion for a new points system, which I think would help to eliminate the trap. (Which would help hockey IMO greatly.)

2 points for a win, and 1 point for every period that you win. So, basically ever period is a new game, and there are 5 points total. Now teams that are getting beat won't give up, and teams that are leading wont sit back.
 

Sinurgy

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they Americans are taking our game and making it into there own little circus.
Yes it's all American's. Once again the poor helpless little Canadiens are being pushed around by those big mean American's!

C'mon man, your post was for the most part infomative and full of good points there is no need for the American comment.
 

The Kingslayer

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Over the last few years I have watched alot of exciting games, but I do welcome the tag-up offside rule and of course the non touch icing rule to be implemented. Its funny though the rules were better in the first place before they started changing it. i think almost everyone wants the nets to be moved back, alot of people like the tag-up offside rule to come back, im sure people want the 2-line pass rule to be gone, see the game was better before they made the changes.
 

John Flyers Fan

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TexSen said:
This wasn't a "well thought out" hypothetical league.....this was long-a$$ time waster by John Buccigross to justify his wet dream to have a team back in Hartford now that he follows the NHL.....

Buccigross just did the voiceovers.
 

ti-vite

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Beauty said:
This ESPNHL business sounds like the equivalent of the "XFL" on ice. They can keep their stupid ass gimicks. We don't need 'em!

No fighting in hockey? LOL.....suuure.

Well, ESPNHL would have only 400 pro players, 340 active (20X17). You would think GMs would load up on offensive talents and scrap thugs leaving only really good cat fights between high end talents if any...
 

Cawz

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NJD Jester said:
You know, the shootout is actually a perfect fit for Bettman's NHL -- he hasn't marketed defense for 12 years, and now he's found a way to eliminate it all together!
Well, first off, blame Shanahan, as it was his hockey summit that suggested shoot-outs, and ESPN that suggested it to start this thread. God, some people will pin anything on Bettman. Cant we have a thread without mentioning Bob or Gary?

Second, how do you market defense? Defense is necessary of course, but I pay to watch goals, not poke-checks.
 

Victory Ali*

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Why is this thing talking at me? Why can't I just read this...?

What kind of euro communistic hockey is this ****ing website advocating... I'd hate the NHL if ESPNHL got it's way.

No fighting and a team in Las Vegas... are you ****ing kidding me? Take fighting out of the game and I'm no longer a NHL fan. Don't get me wrong I'm much deeper into the game than just for fighting but it's a principal. Imagine breakaways being outlawed, that's how it is for me.

Has the person who put this together been a hockey fan for longer than a couple of months?

I feel dumber for watching that.

I think this was just a big play for ESPNHL 2K6 and ESPN video games in general.

Side note: The animated John Buccigross is tripping me out, if you move your mouse around his head it looks like he's on MDMA.
 
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GKJ

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Chili said:
Las Vegas gets a team and Ottawa doesn't?...riiiight.

They lost me with adding shootouts as well.


Tampa Bay won the Stanley Cup and they aren't even in the mix.



You also have to remember that most people at ESPN, including Chris Berman, were all Hartford Whaler fans.
 

Sinurgy

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This all good debate and I'm happy to see ESPN atleast acknowledging the game. However, I disagree with probably %90 of their proposal. Only thing I'm really for is tag up rules, no touch icing, get rid of 2 line pass, go back to normal size goalie pads and last but certainly not least...ENFORCE THE RULES YOU ALREDAY HAVE IN PLACE!!!! I don't care if you have to call 20 penalties a game, you do it until the players realize you're serious! :banghead:

As for the shutout talk, I'm not really against it but some people have made some very good points as to why it's a bad idea. I think I like the idea of removing points for a tie better. It won't eliminate ties but it certainly eliminates the motivation to purposely go for the tie.

As for marketing, I agree completely that something needs to be done. NOTHING DRASTIC but the NHL needs to get some exposure. Remember the old black and white ESPN hockey commercials?! Or the goalie commercials "I couldn't stop him!!". That's what I'm talking about. :yo:

sigh...what it comes down to for me is this....I love the game of hockey, I love the NHL and I really just want it back. :(
 
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NJD Jester

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Cawz said:
Well, first off, blame Shanahan, as it was his hockey summit that suggested shoot-outs, and ESPN that suggested it to start this thread. God, some people will pin anything on Bettman. Cant we have a thread without mentioning Bob or Gary?

Check your facts: Stan Fishler's been reporting since the start of the lockout that as part of Bettman's plan to "restart" the NHL -- with a new logo, new slogan, yadda yadda -- the shootout would be a part of the league, following a 4-on-4 OT.

Second, how do you market defense? Defense is necessary of course, but I pay to watch goals, not poke-checks.

If you pay to watch goals, then you aren't paying to watch hockey. You must be one of those people who fast forwards through Raiders of the Lost Ark just to get to the guy's face melting off.

Defense isn't just poke-checks. It's hitting. It's sacrificing your body to stop a shot. And above all else, it's goaltending. There's a way to market that, but the NHL would rather find a way to get people to tune in for Joe Sakic.

The fact is that over the last 12 years, Bettman's NHL has sought to push offense over defense when defense has ruled the league for the better part of a decade. Hockey would have been better off if the NHL had tried to find a way to sell guys like Brodeur, Pronger, Lidstrom, Hasek, and other guys who keep the puck out of the net. Imagine if the NFL's marketing ignored Warren Sapp, Ray Lewis, Brian Urlacher, and Jevon Kearse, and before them players like L.T., Derrick Thomas and Reggie White? It's just idiotic to cut your marketing options in half because some of those players don't score goals.

So to answer your question: Yeah, Bettman's name had to come up.

<JESTER>
 

Sinurgy

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Defense isn't just poke-checks. It's hitting. It's sacrificing your body to stop a shot. And above all else, it's goaltending. There's a way to market that, but the NHL would rather find a way to get people to tune in for Joe Sakic.

I appreciate defense but it's no secret that offense sells tickets and it's that way in all sports. Baseball, basketball, football, it always has and always will be about offense. That is what's exciting that is what puts people in the seats. So it's not just the NHL trying to promote this idea, that is the reality in all sports.
 

NJD Jester

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Sinurgy said:
I appreciate defense but it's no secret that offense sells tickets and it's that way in all sports. Baseball, basketball, football, it always has and always will be about offense. That is what's exciting that is what puts people in the seats. So it's not just the NHL trying to promote this idea, that is the reality in all sports.

Thanks.

Does baseball market pitchers?

Does football market linebackers?

Now...does the NHL market goaltenders?

<JESTER>
 

Sinurgy

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NJD Jester said:
Thanks.

Does baseball market pitchers?

Does football market linebackers?

Now...does the NHL market goaltenders?

<JESTER>
You're welcome.

To a certain degree yes baseball does market pitchers but nothing compared to hitters.

Football markets a couple of linebackers but mostly it's QB, WR and RB.

The NHL doesn't really market anyone and that is the problem.

I don't have a problem with the NHL marketing goalies, I think it would be cool! It still doesn't change the fact that people pay to see offense over defense though.
 

mackdogs*

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I'd like to add why some of us 'poor helpless little Canadiens' as was put are saying the game is being Americanized, or that America is ruining the game. We say this because G. Bettman and his expansion and rule changes (including cracking down on or even excluding fighting) are changing a game we don't want to see changed for the purpose of gaining a lucrative American TV deal. We've read and been told repeatedly on programs like HNIC that these things are happening to appease the American fan and potential investors (TV contract). Seeing our game change, as well as losing both Quebec and Winnipeg to American cities, has bred animosity in Canadian fans such as myself toward our counterparts to the south. I hope you appreciate where I am coming from.
 

Tricolore#20

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SeattleCloutierFan said:
Why is this thing talking at me? Why can't I just read this...?

What kind of euro communistic hockey is this ****ing website advocating... I'd hate the NHL if ESPNHL got it's way.

No fighting and a team in Las Vegas... are you ****ing kidding me? Take fighting out of the game and I'm no longer a NHL fan. Don't get me wrong I'm much deeper into the game than just for fighting but it's a principal. Imagine breakaways being outlawed, that's how it is for me.

Has the person who put this together been a hockey fan for longer than a couple of months?

I feel dumber for watching that.

I think this was just a big play for ESPNHL 2K6 and ESPN video games in general.

Side note: The animated John Buccigross is tripping me out, if you move your mouse around his head it looks like he's on MDMA.

This whole proposal would make the NHL a gimmick league I think. How anyone can dismiss nearly 90 years of history is beyond me.
 

two out of three*

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Sinurgy said:
You're welcome.

To a certain degree yes baseball does market pitchers but nothing compared to hitters.

Football markets a couple of linebackers but mostly it's QB, WR and RB.

The NHL doesn't really market anyone and that is the problem.

I don't have a problem with the NHL marketing goalies, I think it would be cool! It still doesn't change the fact that people pay to see offense over defense though.

Even the NBA markets Ben Wallace.

Hell, hes on the cover of ESPN's Video Game.
 

Cawz

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TiesRLikeWins4Us said:
Even the NBA markets Ben Wallace.

Hell, hes on the cover of ESPN's Video Game.
Pronger was too, a couple years ago.

No-body is marketed well in the NHL. Its not easy to market with the way the game is played now, plus the fact that its too fast for the casual fan and you cant see their faces.

You cant recognize the players like in baseball and basketball, and there isnt 2 minutes of commentary for every play, like in NA football.

Who wants to market with the NHL, with such a small fan base. How can a non-fan get into the NHL with no marketing. How can you market the NHL with the boring trap-style play and constant bickering about the CBA over the last few years.
 

I in the Eye

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Cawz said:
Who wants to market with the NHL, with such a small fan base. How can a non-fan get into the NHL with no marketing. How can you market the NHL with the boring trap-style play and constant bickering about the CBA over the last few years.

The NHL could go for guerrilla marketing... 'Internally pursuading' the players to do stupid and dangerous stunts to get inexpensive, yet very effective, publicity... a la, the Bertuzzi and Danton incidents... Even bad publicity is good publicity... These two incidents have reached the average US household more than a hockey game ever did... The NHL needs to reach the non-fan on a more consistent basis... and controversy is a great way to do it...

Pretty soon the US teenagers who want to rebel against 'the man', will buy and sport Bertuzzi or Danton jerseys while engaging in their mischievous teenager activities...

The 'nerdy' kids (the ones who one day will have money and be able to afford NHL tickets) will see the 'cool' kids in the jerseys, and soon want to also buy a 'Bertuzzi'... Pretty soon, the term used to suckerpunch a peer will be called 'a Bertuzzi' (breaking into urban vocabulary)... Perhaps any screw up will be called 'a Bertuzzi'... "**** man, I Bertuzzied it" will be the phrase... Out with "I'm Rick James, *****"... in with the new...

Viral marketing at it's best...

Sex also sells... and it can be done very inexpensively... Surely someone can get a tape of a hockey player in a compromising, drunken sexual encounter... Post it on the Internet... and there you go... "Oops... it was leaked"... Free tabloid tv and magazine publicity... It's done wonders for Paris Hilton and her TV show...

The NHL needs to be more creative...
 
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