ESPN Article: Top 10 Centers in the NHL, as Ranked by Players and Team Officials

Chaos2k7

Believe!
Aug 10, 2003
9,674
6,039
Costa Rica
Love how I provided a stat from this season and you ignored the entire post to nitpick random things from 5+ years ago. I’m done here.
And you were provided more stats with more context that go against everything you said. You are done here for sure, but not for the reasons you believe.

You claim nitpicking but it was your own example that was proven incorrect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: FLpanthers16

TomppaKoo

Registered User
Jan 27, 2021
1,576
1,835
Who is he better than in that top 5? Would love to hear an explanation.
Number 4 and 5 positions are debatable. Barkov is not the only one in the debate to take those spots. There are a couple of more - based an opinion and enthusiasm for the team they are playing for...
 

FLpanthers16

#CatsAreComing
Jan 30, 2014
7,045
1,385
Love how I provided a stat from this season and you ignored the entire post to nitpick random things from 5+ years ago. I’m done here.


I mean still even if he avg 2 minutes more so what? He is a key player offensively ofc you are going to try and keep him away from the pk with the ice time he has already. He carries a big enough load defensively 5v5 playing with duclair and Carter V.


Like im all ears here and have said multiple times couts is a good player, but to this point you have given me nothing but 5v5 stats to make a argument to why hes up there with Barkov on the offensive side when theres so much more to offense then that.



And once again Barkov has better offensive numbers this year, career wise etc.
 

Alexandrov

Registered User
Dec 5, 2011
1,204
105
Who is he better than in that top 5? Would love to hear an explanation.

He is #2. Pair Barkov with any two players and you get the best play driving results in the league. Like yeah McDavid and Drai match the numbers when they play together (last 5 mins of the game trying to tie it while other team plays turtle defence). The with/without analytics for Barkov are ridiculous, there is no player in the league as impactful as Barkov this year. He's showing he is indeed a 100p guy instead of ppg (which was probably in doubt after last season) and is the best all-around forward in the league. He'll certainly take the Selke home this year.
 

HotPie

Registered User
Dec 3, 2007
4,134
948
As usual, what players think has not much bearing. They don’t notice and pay attention all players. They vote based on either reputation, friendship, being homers, small samples of facing the peers. What writers think should even more be ignored since they value players based on everything else but what one shall value.

I'm just curious as to how you think your opinion matters more than any of theirs?
 

flyersfan018

Registered User
Mar 2, 2011
6,661
1,877
NJ
And you were provided more stats with more context that go against everything you said. You are done here for sure, but not for the reasons you believe.

You claim nitpicking but it was your own example that was proven incorrect.

Right. More context. That’s why multiple posters are concerned about Couturier’s stats from 10 years ago. Spare me.
 

Canadian Finn

Oskee Wee Wee
Feb 21, 2014
4,957
4,334
The Hammer
Matthews isn't a top 100 centre (on HF).

In reality he's right behind McDavid.

Mackinnon has a ways to go before he would be more valuable than Matthews.

But this is HF after all.

So put Matthews around #98 in the league. That's about right.
 

Sidney the Kidney

One last time
Jun 29, 2009
55,519
46,242
Matthews isn't a top 100 centre (on HF).

In reality he's right behind McDavid.

Mackinnon has a ways to go before he would be more valuable than Matthews.

But this is HF after all.

So put Matthews around #98 in the league. That's about right.

The Wizard of Oz is calling. They want their straw man back.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lateralous

FLpanthers16

#CatsAreComing
Jan 30, 2014
7,045
1,385
Right. More context. That’s why multiple posters are concerned about Couturier’s stats from 10 years ago. Spare me.


Yeah lets leave out his whole career and take his career high of 76 as the only thing to look at so it suits your narrative.

We can play that game this year? Barkov, last year Barkov, 3 years ago wanna take a guess? Yeah Barkov, 4 Barkov and so on.

No matter 1 or 5 years ago Barkov produces more and thats a fact
 

Canadian Finn

Oskee Wee Wee
Feb 21, 2014
4,957
4,334
The Hammer
  • Like
Reactions: Hawkman

Kcb12345

Registered User
Jun 6, 2017
28,979
22,203
Id love to know who voted for Pettersson over Schiefele in the honorable mentions. Pettersson has never had a point per game season and Scheifele has been a ppg player for the last 4 seasons. He may have the potential to be a better player in the future but he is not a better player right now.

Elias Pettersson. Now there's a name I haven't heard at all this season surprisingly
 

Zybalto

Registered User
Dec 28, 2012
9,490
8,767
I'm fine with your use of the regular CA/60, HDCA/60 etc. I don't think any of them truly isolate a players defensive game but they're at least useful. Where I disagree is that showing, and then ranking, relative stats has any value when comparing two players on different teams. The point of relative stats, to me, is to show how a player compares to his teammates. When you then take that number and compare it across teams I think you get some disingenuous results.

It's not just that one players relative relative stats compares to one player on a team, it's that they compare a player to an entire team as a whole and the specific players role on that team. There are things like quality of wingers and offensive D, etc. to worry about here but 1st line centers go up against the best on every team. (perhaps we should be looking at xGF% as a whole for straight 2 way play I guess)

What if your on a team with a crap D that gives up a ton of shots/scoring chances? Regular /60 metrics are not going to look good at all whatever you do as a center to try and mitigate them. When you look at REL numbers in concert with /60 numbers, and then compare the player to other players in identical roles around the league (1st line centers QoC are not going to be all that different), you'll get as close a comparison as is possible IMO.

Just going straight /60 biases things so badly towards players on good teams, it's hard to take them seriously on their own. However, if you your team averages far fewer shots and scoring chances against the moment you step on the ice, I think it should be acknowledged and taken into account.

I've already been told here that takeaways and blocked shots shouldn't be used when looking at defensive play. At least give me REL stats here.
 

Conspiracy Theorist

Registered User
Jan 30, 2016
5,636
1,882
"Produces the same" is debatable at best and "or more" is just factually incorrect.

There are 0 arguments for barkov in the top 5. I'm sorry to everyone, but it's just not a thing yet.
I don't understand how you have Matthews in top 5 but not Barkov. He has never gotten more than 80 points.
 

Not My Tempo

Registered User
Feb 22, 2015
3,663
3,701
Toronto
I don't understand how you have Matthews in top 5 but not Barkov. He has never gotten more than 80 points.
There’s this cool trick you can do. If you divide the total points by the number of games you can get the average number of points someone scores in a game. You can use to this number to compare with other players. It helps to standardize results and remove some variance that players might not have control over!

There’s some other cool stuff you can do with math as well, let me know if you want to know anything else :)
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->