Esa Tikkanen HOF bound?

Discussion in 'The History of Hockey' started by Merya, Aug 4, 2017.

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  1. Merya

    Merya Jokerit & Finland; anti-theist

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    Esa Tikkanen has 5 rings from 2 famous teams. He had good playoff numbers and he is perhaps best known for being the only shadow to have ever succesfully dampened prime Gretzky. His play has been described selke worthy by many, but just like Jari Kurri, he never got any nods.
    He is not Hall of Very Good bound, ever. He makes the big hall on his legend or does not, simply as that. I think he is more deserving than Claude Lemieux.
     
  2. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    Claude Lemieux will never, ever get into the HHOF.


    As for Esa: I don't see it.

    As effective as he was in his checking/pest roles and as good as he could be in the playoffs, I simply don't think he was a HHOF calibre player.

    Inducting him would lower the standard again.

    Let's compare him to some other names that have been thrown around in HHOF discussions: Is he really more worthy than guys like Palffy or Alfredsson?

    Is he even more deserving than a Nolan or a Tkachuk? I just don't see how Tikkanen can make it in any time soon.
     
  3. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    I can't tell if this is a worse premise for a thread than the Owen Nolan one, or merely just as bad.

    Anyway, Tikkanen was a very useful player, but let's wait for Kevin Lowe to be enshrined before talking about Tikkanen.
     
  4. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    Good grief! Tikkanen was a far better player than Kevin Slow.

    Neither should be allowed anywhere near the Hall of Fame, however.
     
    Crosbyfan, Eisen and Sentinel like this.
  5. TheDevilMadeMe

    TheDevilMadeMe Registered User

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    It's been leaked that Lowe's name has come up in discussions by the HHOF committee, especially after Anderson was inducted.
     
  6. The Panther

    The Panther Registered User

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    Lowe's name came up... Porky Pig's name came up... it's all good.

    Just, please hockey gods, do not let Kevin Slow into the Hall....!
     
  7. Sadekuuro

    Sadekuuro Registered User

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    I'd take him (Tikkanen, not Lowe) over a handful of guys who are already in the Hall... but you could say that about lots of other players whose induction I wouldn't support either. Maybe if they're opening an agitator wing :laugh: Or perhaps if you take the "Fame" part really seriously, I could see TikiTalk alone being worth some serious consideration.

    He was so great at times though, in all seriousness. Would you say he's the best 'pest' ever?
     
  8. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    What members would you take him over?

    Just curious.
     
  9. Sadekuuro

    Sadekuuro Registered User

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    The weaker inductions (your Housleys, Andreychuks, etc). I'd have to think about how many of them that would actually be.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2017
  10. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    to name only wingers that you could call tikkanen's contemporaries, gartner and andreychuk without blinking. gillies i would think very hard about, ciccarelli i would think about. even kariya i would entertain.
     
  11. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    This thread needs some all-time draft board bio info.
     
  12. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    Tikkanen was probably the best LW in the NHL over 2/3 years.

    He is also maybe the best "pest" in NHL history.

    He is far above Kevin Lowe in my opinion on those Oilers/Rangers teams.

    Tikkanen should be considered for the HHOF seriously. He was a very superb player that had a unique set of skills. The thing against him is longevity and counting numbers. Still I would have no problem with him getting in.

    I don't have a problem with Leclair getting in either. Leclair was the best at his position for several years and peaked as an elite best on best player helping lead the US to the World Cup.
     
  13. vadim sharifijanov

    vadim sharifijanov ugh

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    i was thinking about this randomly in the shower this morning: it's going to sound crazy but can you make an argument that tikkanen and neely are equals?

    they both were excellent players with a niche skillset: goal scoring power winger and shutdown defensive pest. both were historically good, and arguably paradigmatic, at those roles.

    neely has four all-star offensive regular seasons to his name, and you can probably say there's a five year period where he's the second best RW in the league, behind peak brett hull. tikkanen has four selke nominations, and you can probably say there's a five year period where he's the second best defensive forward in the league. then both guys had some injury/worn out down years before having one last big year ('94 for neely, '95 in STL for tik).

    in their primes, both had wonderful team-carrying playoff runs, to go with good contributions to other deep runs. neely was huge in '90 and '91 and very likely isn't in the HHOF without those years; in those exact same years, tikkanen has two very historically underrated playoff runs and comes a mere four points shy of neely (over 40 games for both), while taking on and killing enormous defensive responsibilities. neely also has '88 while tikkanen has a better '88, and of course a bunch of other deep runs that neely can't match (though when we get into tikkanen's 4th, 5th, and 6th deep runs we can start to talk about the advantage he had playing with the oilers/new york neo-oilers).

    neely confounded patrick roy three times and we love him to death for it. well in 1990 tikkanen outscored gretzky 4 goals to 1 (no assists for either guy that series) while of course shadowing him and being the primary reason gretzky had such a quiet series offensively. in the rematch, tikkanen outscored gretzky 6 points to 5 (all assists for gretzky), en route to a six game victory. after LA won game one, off a gretzky-assisted OT goal, tikkanen assisted on the 2OT game two winner and then scored the OT winner in game three to take control of the series. in the deciding game six, tikkanen scored the late third period goal that sent the game to OT, where mactavish eventually won it. in their third straight meeting, gretzky outscored tikkanen 7 points to 4, but again tikkanen had the upper hand, taking the series in six. gretzky brutalized tikkanen for four assists in game 2, but tik held gretzky scoreless in three other games; in gretzky's other noteworthy game (2 goals, the only ones he scored all series), tikkanen bested him with a hat trick. neely vs. roy and tikkanen vs. gretzky... those should be comparable accomplishments right?

    they were born in the same year, their careers almost exactly overlapped, and tikkanen in fact played 150 more regular season games than neely (managing 64 fewer career regular season points). and of course tikkanen's role was primarily defensive, while neely's main job was to score points.

    14th all-time in playoff goals, 41st all-time in playoff points, 24th all-time playoff games played (era-specific accomplishments, yes, but still). a very versatile player who check, agitate, score, make plays, anything you needed. i'll leave it for someone else to corroborate but i feel like he even played some center in the '91 playoffs.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2017
  14. Changeiscoming

    Changeiscoming Rebooting myself Sponsor

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    Stats say no
     
  15. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    We can discuss this in the Gartner thread if you'd like to...


    There's no way Clark Gillies is more deserving of being in the Hall than Mike Gartner.
     
  16. mrhockey193195

    mrhockey193195 Registered User

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    I'll say something perhaps controversial: I'd put Tikkanen and Lemieux in the HOF ahead of Andreychuk, Housley, and Nolan (from the other thread). That being said, if I had it my way, none of them would be in.
     
  17. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Let's face it. The guy knew a thing or two about winning...:sarcasm:
     
  18. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    I do think that Neely comparision is a good one.

    Both are the prototype and maybe best ever (or close) of a type of player.

    Neely power forward. Tikkanen pest and shadow defensive forward.

    Both were able to take over entire playoff series and be the straw that stirs the drink.
     
  19. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Near identical playoff goal numbers (52, 53) over an 8-year playoff stretch, trailing NHL playoff goal leaders Mario and Mess by only two and three goals. Yeah, that speaks volumes.
     
  20. Hobnobs

    Hobnobs Pinko

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    It all depends on what HoF should really be. Should it just or mostly acknowledge the offensive greats or should it start acknowledging other important roles on teams?

    Tikkanen is lock as pioneer in language and agitating :laugh:
     
  21. VanIslander

    VanIslander Don't waste my time

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    Great point.

    Which should hockey history enshrine and remember 50 years from now...

    Turgeon or Tikkanen?

    Housley or Foote?
     
  22. Sens Rule

    Sens Rule Registered User

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    How great do you have to be to get into the Hall if you are "special" at a certain aspect of the game?

    Gainey, Langway, Gilles and Neely are in.

    Is Carboneau HHOF worthy? Bergeron? Tikkanen? And seriously Bob Probert. The most well known and overall best enforcer ever if you take into account peak and longevity and him also being a very adept player at his best.
     
  23. Hobnobs

    Hobnobs Pinko

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    Probert should be in HoF in case of enforcers. He was rather a special case for that particular group though.

    How about guys like Lehtinen, Foote, Craig Ramsay, Draper and Sid Smith?
     
  24. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    Gillies is an atrocious inductee.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2017
  25. GlitchMarner

    GlitchMarner Formerly 29GoalHoglund

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    It's a matter of context, too, mate.

    Would a team that had Esa Tikkanen as its best or second best player make much noise in the playoffs?

    Yeah, doubtful.

    Okay, he could do the pest thing and be an effective shadow still. Is he scoring enough to get his team the Cup if HE is the primary checking target of the opposition?

    I'm not so sure about that.


    He had a role on some deep teams and he played it to perfection, so kudos to him. I think you have to separate the individual from the team in discussions about HHOF worthiness.

    I mean, a team with "Wendel" Clark Gillies as its best or second best player would never make it the SCF let along win multiple Stanley Cups. Yet he's a HHOF'er.
     

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