Confirmed with Link: Erne and Vrana file for Arbitration

[Revenge of Gru]

Because Vrana isn't a UFA next year. He's a 2 year RFA still. Even if he takes a one year deal like Bertuzzi did last year. He's still going to get at least a 2 year deal next year as Yzerman isn't going to straight to free agency without at least eating one UFA year.

It is Erne that is one year from UFA then? I was thinking it was Vrana.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

It is Erne that is one year from UFA then? I was thinking it was Vrana.

Yeah Erne is a UFA next year, Vrana has a couple more years left. he's only played 5 seasons so far.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

Yeah Erne is a UFA next year, Vrana has a couple more years left. he's only played 5 seasons so far.

Yeah then I'm not worried about this at all. Good deal.

 

[Winger98]

As a general observation, I think there are several fans on this board that value things like gritty play a LOT more than I do. And that's ok. But it's a big factor in how I view certain players versus how others do.

I'm not saying I want a roster filled with figure skaters. But I probably think that element is easier to find (or replace) on the open market than other fans do.

What did Brisebois deal to bring in Coleman and Goodrow? What did they just sign for in UFA (under a flat cap no less)?

I'm a pretty big BPA guy as far as drafting goes, as opposed to trying to guide the draft to fill org needs, but I'm not opposed to spending some 2nd and 3rd rounders on guys who maybe lack a bit in the hands or whatever but make up for it by being nasty SOBs.

 

[jkutswings]

What did Brisebois deal to bring in Coleman and Goodrow? What did they just sign for in UFA (under a flat cap no less)?

I'm a pretty big BPA guy as far as drafting goes, as opposed to trying to guide the draft to fill org needs, but I'm not opposed to spending some 2nd and 3rd rounders on guys who maybe lack a bit in the hands or whatever but make up for it by being nasty SOBs.

That's fair. I just mean, for example, that if Bertuzzi ends up not being in the long term plans, that won't bother me as much as it might others, because I think it wouldn't be all that hard to find "another Bertuzzi" (or a different kind of boost that helps the roster to a similar degree, whether via draft, trade, or free agency). Not saying I don't want him here; just that if I'm making a list of my favorite players, he's middle of the pack at best.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

That's fair. I just mean, for example, that if Bertuzzi ends up not being in the long term plans, that won't bother me as much as it might others, because I think it wouldn't be all that hard to find "another Bertuzzi" (or a different kind of boost that helps the roster to a similar degree, whether via draft, trade, or free agency). Not saying I don't want him here; just that if I'm making a list of my favorite players, he's middle of the pack at best.

I think that player is becoming more rare than some of the skill chance players that didn't used to make the league. Finding a player that is heavy and has skill is becoming a little harder. I think these things happen in swings. As the analytic swing hit full force and smaller skill guys became more in-vogue, there was a devaluation of the lunch pail with skill hockey guy. Now it might be swinging back in the other directions.

Being in on areas where others aren't is always a part of this, you want to be ahead of the next trend. But I do think it is a blend, Stevie's team in Tampa took off even more with a little more grime in it. Now most of those guys have a good amount of skill too when you look at their now gone third line, guys like Killorn and Palat. But there is an element of that I believe in and it might just with the evolution of the game become a little more expensive than you think. It also could just as soon swing back a little more. Clearly Yzerman wants to cover the back-end with the right physical mix, but we are going to need some jam up front, part of why I keep begging to see Ras become meaner this off-season. There is an element especially come playoff time that is still a steep price to get done what you need to. I love skill, but it doesn't always win, the Wings in the 90s, Tampa recently, those teams started winning when they got meaner in my opinion.

Erne is a guy Yzerman likes because I think he believes he can pull this out of him. Ultimately you need a lot of different parts covered to win in this league. I am curious where they land on both of these guys. Yzerman is really good with contracts, so I am kind of fascinated to see what happens with Vrana because I have no idea.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[Ishad]

Not much time to get vrana done. Not optimistic.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Not much time to get vrana done. Not optimistic.

No reason for being pessimistic. He's got two years of RFA control. Just because he goes to a hearing doesn't mean anything. Bertuzzi went to a hearing last year and he re-signed for two years this year. And it's only a two year deal for him because his back has been straight f***ed up. I think 100% healthy Bertuzzi signs LT and he went to and was awarded a contract at a hearing.

Vrana has a case for maybe the mid 5s based on comparables. Can't see the arbitrator going any higher than 5.5 and that's upper upper upper end.

 

[jkutswings]

Here's the list of everybody:

NHLPA releases 2021 arbitration dates - TSN.ca

 

[Revenge of Gru]

No reason for being pessimistic. He's got two years of RFA control. Just because he goes to a hearing doesn't mean anything. Bertuzzi went to a hearing last year and he re-signed for two years this year. And it's only a two year deal for him because his back has been straight f***ed up. I think 100% healthy Bertuzzi signs LT and he went to and was awarded a contract at a hearing.

Vrana has a case for maybe the mid 5s based on comparables. Can't see the arbitrator going any higher than 5.5 and that's upper upper upper end.

I think if they gave him $9 million they have a pretty good idea about his back. Bert is almost certainly gone.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

No reason for being pessimistic. He's got two years of RFA control. Just because he goes to a hearing doesn't mean anything. Bertuzzi went to a hearing last year and he re-signed for two years this year. And it's only a two year deal for him because his back has been straight f***ed up. I think 100% healthy Bertuzzi signs LT and he went to and was awarded a contract at a hearing.

Vrana has a case for maybe the mid 5s based on comparables. Can't see the arbitrator going any higher than 5.5 and that's upper upper upper end.

I was very concerned initially because I thought he had one year of RFA left. Now I think he's here a couple years before Yzerman trades him.

 

[Gniwder]

No reason for being pessimistic. He's got two years of RFA control. Just because he goes to a hearing doesn't mean anything. Bertuzzi went to a hearing last year and he re-signed for two years this year. And it's only a two year deal for him because his back has been straight f***ed up. I think 100% healthy Bertuzzi signs LT and he went to and was awarded a contract at a hearing.

Vrana has a case for maybe the mid 5s based on comparables. Can't see the arbitrator going any higher than 5.5 and that's upper upper upper end.

• Bert got $3.5M for 48 pts in 72 games, Vrana paced for 52 pts if he had played 72. The previous season he scored 52 in 69 games.
• The flip side of that is Reinhart got $5.2M/1 yr for similar production, but that was negotiated and did not go through an arbitrator.
• Salary cap did not increase.
• Vrana was healthy scratched by the Caps

If the Wings get lucky and get the same arbitrator (lol), then we're looking at $3.75M - $4.25M range for 1 year. If Vrana is asking for too much, then it makes sense to just go through arbitration, and try to lock him up next offseason when the team has a better idea of if they're going to keep him long term.

 

[Bench]

No reason for being pessimistic.

There's a little reason to be pessimistic. There's good data that shows the players that actually follow through with arbitration and have a hearing often don't end up returning beyond their requirements.

Bert is a weird case with his back surgery.

 

[Henkka]

• Bert got $3.5M for 48 pts in 72 games, Vrana paced for 52 pts if he had played 72. The previous season he scored 52 in 69 games.
• The flip side of that is Reinhart got $5.2M/1 yr for similar production, but that was negotiated and did not go through an arbitrator.
• Salary cap did not increase.
• Vrana was healthy scratched by the Caps

If the Wings get lucky and get the same arbitrator (lol), then we're looking at $3.75M - $4.25M range for 1 year. If Vrana is asking for too much, then it makes sense to just go through arbitration, and try to lock him up next offseason when the team has a better idea of if they're going to keep him long term.

Career games have also weight in these arbitration cases. Bertuzzi was cheaper, because he had less games.

Vrana minimum is 4.5M, don't see him anyhow getting less than that.

Would be nice to see that 5-6 year extension with slightly smaller caphit than Larkin has.

6 years, 5.9M I hope.

 

[BinCookin]

I think if they gave him $9 million they have a pretty good idea about his back. Bert is almost certainly gone.

"Almost Certainly Gone".

I mean nothing like trying to make your GUESS into a fact.

You know what is the biggest factor here with Bertuzzi//Vrana//Larkin//Hronek?

-Do they enjoy playing for our team?

Factors that effect the above question:
-Do they compete?
-Do they win often?
-Do Teammates suck?
-Is the team improving?

Our ability to re-sign any of these guys where UFA status is in view depends on Yzerman's ability to create a vision an improvement in the team. For those who think we need to tank until we get Shane Wright... (IF we miss) then you are right.. most of these guys will leave the team. Because it sucks playing for a horrible team.
Buffalo basically traded everyone in this age range and I do not think its by choice. I bet every one of those players demanded to be moved. (Eichel publicly).

Under those circumstances... Detroits rebuild could go on indefinitely.

Yzerman is required to create a work place that inspires hope. That is what all players want. They will stay if that hope is there.

So again "Almost certainly gone?" Sounds to me like YOUR point of view is that Detroit is garbage, will never get better, and all those players should leave now. Your pessimism is noted.
I am much more confident of improvements. However it will take years, that is true.

 

[Revenge of Gru]

"Almost Certainly Gone".

I mean nothing like trying to make your GUESS into a fact.

You know what is the biggest factor here with Bertuzzi//Vrana//Larkin//Hronek?

-Do they enjoy playing for our team?

Factors that effect the above question:
-Do they compete?
-Do they win often?
-Do Teammates suck?
-Is the team improving?

Our ability to re-sign any of these guys where UFA status is in view depends on Yzerman's ability to create a vision an improvement in the team. For those who think we need to tank until we get Shane Wright... (IF we miss) then you are right.. most of these guys will leave the team. Because it sucks playing for a horrible team.
Buffalo basically traded everyone in this age range and I do not think its by choice. I bet every one of those players demanded to be moved. (Eichel publicly).

Under those circumstances... Detroits rebuild could go on indefinitely.

Yzerman is required to create a work place that inspires hope. That is what all players want. They will stay if that hope is there.

So again "Almost certainly gone?" Sounds to me like YOUR point of view is that Detroit is garbage, will never get better, and all those players should leave now. Your pessimism is noted.
I am much more confident of improvements. However it will take years, that is true.

Bert is getting married. He's gonna want some stability. Security. Yzerman isn't going to give him that.

 

[Gniwder]

Career games have also weight in these arbitration cases. Bertuzzi was cheaper, because he had less games.

Vrana minimum is 4.5M, don't see him anyhow getting less than that.

Would be nice to see that 5-6 year extension with slightly smaller caphit than Larkin has.

6 years, 5.9M I hope.

I like Vrana, I really do...

But he's basically a 50 pts winger that misses a few games each season. He's not worth $6M on an RFA contract for that. He's a slightly bigger and faster version of Tatar. Plus on a good team he's a second line winger, not top line.

Jaden Schwartz would be a good comparable in terms of points, he just got a $5.5M UFA contract. I think $5Mx4 would be a fair contract for both sides. Slightly more than Bert.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

I like Vrana, I really do...

But he's basically a 50 pts winger that misses a few games each season. He's not worth $6M on an RFA contract for that. He's a slightly bigger and faster version of Tatar. Plus on a good team he's a second line winger, not top line.

Jaden Schwartz would be a good comparable in terms of points, he just got a $5.5M UFA contract. I think $5Mx4 would be a fair contract for both sides. Slightly more than Bert.

Correction.

Vrana was a 50 point winger in Washington playing 3rd line minutes with almost no powerplay time.

In Detroit he'll be getting around 18 minutes a game and 1st PP duties. I would be disappointed if he didn't score 30 goals and 60 points for us. He has the kind of talent that Filip Forsberg has.

 

[GreatGordie9]

Vrana I 'm thinking 5.50 AAV per yr 4-5 year contract.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Vrana I 'm thinking 5.50 AAV per yr 4-5 year contract.

Arbitration can only be 1 and 2 year contracts. He'd have to sign prior to arbitration. Personally I think he would want a shorter term to get some big bucks coming out as an unrestricted free agent as the flat cap ends.

 

[GreatGordie9]

Arbitration can only be 1 and 2 year contracts. He'd have to sign prior to arbitration. Personally I think he would want a shorter term to get some big bucks coming out as an unrestricted free agent as the flat cap ends.

I was basing this before the arbitration date. If he waits until August 11th we will see.

 

[Konnan511]

You'd think people would eventually just stop choosing to be wrong over and over and over again. But man, I guess not

Lucas Raymond could go on and be in the HHOF and win multiple cups...but I'm still gunna be an Alexander Holtz fanboy. SO leave me alone!

 

[Gniwder]

Correction.

Vrana was a 50 point winger in Washington playing 3rd line minutes with almost no powerplay time.

In Detroit he'll be getting around 18 minutes a game and 1st PP duties. I would be disappointed if he didn't score 30 goals and 60 points for us. He has the kind of talent that Filip Forsberg has.

He was second line until Lav dropped him to bottom 6 this past season. No PP because their entire strategy is to set up Ovy. Plus Vrana is not the best at utilizing teammates, though he is accurate on passes when he does make them.

Obviously he gets more minutes and PP time on a garbage team. But Bert is a top line winger on this garbage team, doesn't mean you want to pay him first line money. Likewise Vrana is not a top line player on a playoff team, it would be a mistake to pay him that kind of money. The teams that have cap issues tend to be the ones with overpaid second lines or second pair.

 

[ManwithNoIdentity]

I guess we’re about to find out