Erik Karlsson (Part 6)

[Karl Prime]

Hopefully Karl will come back from this minor injury successfully no worse for wear. In my opinion I think his skating has been decent this season for everything his leg/legs have been through. I've even seen him account for his decrease in explosiveness by turning earlier to prevent guys from getting in on him from the outside. His production is far more bothersome, but that can be rectified with getting the puck on net more often and getting a little more luck with forwards scoring off his passes. A better PP would help matters too (I think he and Burns should be split since BB splits the two units pretty regularly).

I truly don't think it's impossible for Karlsson to get back to the guy production-wise that hits 55-65 points over 82 games. With some changes that are fully within his control (like shooting more) it wouldn't surprise me to see him put up 20-25 points in his final 30 games or something like that. I don't know if he can dominate hockey games for 25-28 minutes a game anymore because that requires greatness shift after shift, but .3 PPG is certainly not the norm and the points will come.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

Except you were just guessing off nothing more than stuff you read. A broken clock is right twice a day. Actual doctors looked at everything and with that information the Sharks thought it was worth the risk. It doesn't mean it doesn't suck it turned out this way but you weren't right thru some unique insight and analysis, you were right thru sheer luck.

And you'd be wrong per usual just like you are with Dr. Ting. I've read tens of thousands of medical reports and I do analysis on medical reports and assess the medical actions taken by doctors vis a vis the current medical protocols to assess if the current "accepted practices" are accurate and/or too limited in scope.

Dr. Ting's reputation is terrible within the medical community.

 

[one2gamble]

And you'd be wrong per usual just like you are with Dr. Ting. I've read tens of thousands of medical reports and I do analysis on medical reports and assess the medical actions taken by doctors vis a vis the current medical protocols to assess if the current "accepted practices" are accurate and/or too limited in scope.

Dr. Ting's reputation is terrible within the medical community.

so why do pro sports teams keep sending people to him? I mean its a serious question. I get his reputation, we have been talking shit about Ting for what seems like forever but he keeps getting business from businesses that rely on his success

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

And you'd be wrong per usual just like you are with Dr. Ting. I've read tens of thousands of medical reports and I do analysis on medical reports and assess the medical actions taken by doctors vis a vis the current medical protocols to assess if the current "accepted practices" are accurate and/or too limited in scope.

Dr. Ting's reputation is terrible within the medical community.

I see you failed to respond to the people who dismantled your line of thinking already so you can come take a pot shot at me. I would bet you are as clueless as the others about Ting. You have no more credibility in the discussion about him than anyone else here. And as far as what I'm right or wrong about, his reputation in the "medical community" wasn't a point of discussion. MD's are no different than any other profession, some are workers and some are jealous douche bags who are better at envy and talking shit than they are at excelling at their work. It's human nature.

so why do pro sports teams keep sending people to him? I mean its a serious question. I get his reputation, we have been talking shit about Ting for what seems like forever but he keeps getting business from businesses that rely on his success

Exactly. If the financial success of a multi million dollar business is tied up in having healthy players I'm not sending them to some crack pot who "is bad at his job" and "has a terrible reputation in the medical community". A pro team has access to a lot of doctors so I'm sure that reputation would have been shared especially among the sports teams. So far there's been a lot of talk about him here by people who have probably never even met him. It's dumb AF.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Hopefully Karl will come back from this minor injury successfully no worse for wear. In my opinion I think his skating has been decent this season for everything his leg/legs have been through. I've even seen him account for his decrease in explosiveness by turning earlier to prevent guys from getting in on him from the outside. His production is far more bothersome, but that can be rectified with getting the puck on net more often and getting a little more luck with forwards scoring off his passes. A better PP would help matters too (I think he and Burns should be split since BB splits the two units pretty regularly).

I truly don't think it's impossible for Karlsson to get back to the guy production-wise that hits 55-65 points over 82 games. With some changes that are fully within his control (like shooting more) it wouldn't surprise me to see him put up 20-25 points in his final 30 games or something like that. I don't know if he can dominate hockey games for 25-28 minutes a game anymore because that requires greatness shift after shift, but .3 PPG is certainly not the norm and the points will come.

What is that, optimism? You must be new here... EK65 is going to have both legs amputated by Dr Ting tomorrow or didn't you hear?

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Hopefully Karl will come back from this minor injury successfully no worse for wear. In my opinion I think his skating has been decent this season for everything his leg/legs have been through. I've even seen him account for his decrease in explosiveness by turning earlier to prevent guys from getting in on him from the outside. His production is far more bothersome, but that can be rectified with getting the puck on net more often and getting a little more luck with forwards scoring off his passes. A better PP would help matters too (I think he and Burns should be split since BB splits the two units pretty regularly).

I truly don't think it's impossible for Karlsson to get back to the guy production-wise that hits 55-65 points over 82 games. With some changes that are fully within his control (like shooting more) it wouldn't surprise me to see him put up 20-25 points in his final 30 games or something like that. I don't know if he can dominate hockey games for 25-28 minutes a game anymore because that requires greatness shift after shift, but .3 PPG is certainly not the norm and the points will come.

I think 55-65 points is entirely in the realm of possibility. Sounds like a broken record but I think Karlsson is not being utilized and supported correctly on the Sharks.

With all his string of injuries I do not think he will ever be worth of the contract he got. But he can still be a very useful player.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

so why do pro sports teams keep sending people to him? I mean its a serious question. I get his reputation, we have been talking shit about Ting for what seems like forever but he keeps getting business from businesses that rely on his success

Why does anyone who acts badly get business? They cajole market, host functions they get known for their good period of work and medical information isn't exactly readily available.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

I see you failed to respond to the people who dismantled your line of thinking already so you can come take a pot shot at me. I would bet you are as clueless as the others about Ting. You have no more credibility in the discussion about him than anyone else here. And as far as what I'm right or wrong about, his reputation in the "medical community" wasn't a point of discussion. MD's are no different than any other profession, some are workers and some are jealous douche bags who are better at envy and talking shit than they are at excelling at their work. It's human nature.

Exactly. If the financial success of a multi million dollar business is tied up in having healthy players I'm not sending them to some crack pot who "is bad at his job" and "has a terrible reputation in the medical community". A pro team has access to a lot of doctors so I'm sure that reputation would have been shared especially among the sports teams. So far there's been a lot of talk about him here by people who have probably never even met him. It's dumb AF.

I'm taking a pot shot at you? How many reports of his have you read and how many of his patients have you dealt with exactly? Because I've dealt with him and his patients quite a number of times and I've had to deal with the fall out over bad surgeries. I've also had to fight with his pharmacy mill. Stop acting like some naif. As I mentioned it's not like medical information is readily available. Or do you believe every thing you see on informercials as well?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

I'm taking a pot shot at you? How many reports of his have you read and how many of his patients have you dealt with exactly? Because I've dealt with him and his patients quite a number of times and I've had to deal with the fall out over bad surgeries. I've also had to fight with his pharmacy mill. Stop acting like some naif. As I mentioned it's not like medical information is readily available. Or do you believe every thing you see on informercials as well?

I am his patient dude. For like 6 or 7 years. He performed 5 surgeries on me. I know him pretty well. A hell of a lot better than anyone posting here to date. I have a couple other friends who also went to him and were happy their result too. doesn't mean he's perfect. But the evidence speaks to him NOT being "bad at his job". I've already detailed my extensive history with him and the people involved in the situation he was put on probation for. Don't show up late to class without doing the reading.

 

[tealzamboni]

Hopefully Karl will come back from this minor injury successfully no worse for wear. In my opinion I think his skating has been decent this season for everything his leg/legs have been through. I've even seen him account for his decrease in explosiveness by turning earlier to prevent guys from getting in on him from the outside. His production is far more bothersome, but that can be rectified with getting the puck on net more often and getting a little more luck with forwards scoring off his passes. A better PP would help matters too (I think he and Burns should be split since BB splits the two units pretty regularly).

I truly don't think it's impossible for Karlsson to get back to the guy production-wise that hits 55-65 points over 82 games. With some changes that are fully within his control (like shooting more) it wouldn't surprise me to see him put up 20-25 points in his final 30 games or something like that. I don't know if he can dominate hockey games for 25-28 minutes a game anymore because that requires greatness shift after shift, but .3 PPG is certainly not the norm and the points will come.

What I've noticed is that whenever Karlsson is out (2019-2020 and last 3 games), Boughner reverts to a quicker pace (quick clear, quick entry, quick shot) and more of a 4-1 looking breakout. And any of those 4 (defense included) can be the ones that attack the zone. But, when Karlsson is in, Boughner slows it down, employs something closer to a 1-4 breakout, and tries to run a 5v5 PP style of offense.

I'm guessing Boughner is running that set offense as a way to dominate possession time and to make their defensive investment worth it. But, I feel like it's been a detriment to all aspects of the Sharks' game. The defense is better suited to quick clears, but they seem to be aligned so that they can shield the puck and try to initiate the offense. Also, there aren't any danglers, so the breakout is dependent on risky stretch passes or dump n chase -- where they can't overpower many teams like they used to. And the mired dump and chase leads to lower quality shots.

I feel that playing the up and down style would suit Karlsson better (and the whole defense - and whole team for that matter). Though, the question might be if simply letting Karlsson/Burns rove is all they need to be competitive. Or if some sort of set 5v5 offense is still needed against the top teams.

 

[Herschel]

What I've noticed is that whenever Karlsson is out (2019-2020 and last 3 games), Boughner reverts to a quicker pace (quick clear, quick entry, quick shot) and more of a 4-1 looking breakout. And any of those 4 (defense included) can be the ones that attack the zone. But, when Karlsson is in, Boughner slows it down, employs something closer to a 1-4 breakout, and tries to run a 5v5 PP style of offense.

I'm guessing Boughner is running that set offense as a way to dominate possession time and to make their defensive investment worth it. But, I feel like it's been a detriment to all aspects of the Sharks' game. The defense is better suited to quick clears, but they seem to be aligned so that they can shield the puck and try to initiate the offense. Also, there aren't any danglers, so the breakout is dependent on risky stretch passes or dump n chase -- where they can't overpower many teams like they used to. And the mired dump and chase leads to lower quality shots.

I feel that playing the up and down style would suit Karlsson better (and the whole defense - and whole team for that matter). Though, the question might be if simply letting Karlsson/Burns rove is all they need to be competitive. Or if some sort of set 5v5 offense is still needed against the top teams.

I think playing that style leads to trading chances with teams and that Sharks are not suited for that style

They have weak goaltending.
Their forwards scoring ability doesn't significantly outmatch any of the teams in the West.
They are a poor backchecking team

 

[Levie]

I am his patient dude. For like 6 or 7 years. He performed 5 surgeries on me. I know him pretty well. A hell of a lot better than anyone posting here to date. I have a couple other friends who also went to him and were happy their result too. doesn't mean he's perfect. But the evidence speaks to him NOT being "bad at his job". I've already detailed my extensive history with him and the people involved in the situation he was put on probation for. Don't show up late to class without doing the reading.

No offense but a former patient is the last person I would trust when deciding whether a doctor is good or bad at their job. Oftentimes when you're a patient your view on a Dr. will either be outstanding or terrible depending on your results. It's an incredibly biased source. Also, even someone terrible at there job is capable of doing some things right and vice versa people who are great at their jobs can have bad days.

I don't know anything about Ting but just speaking in generalities.

 

[one2gamble]

I am his patient dude. For like 6 or 7 years. He performed 5 surgeries on me. I know him pretty well. A hell of a lot better than anyone posting here to date. I have a couple other friends who also went to him and were happy their result too. doesn't mean he's perfect. But the evidence speaks to him NOT being "bad at his job". I've already detailed my extensive history with him and the people involved in the situation he was put on probation for. Don't show up late to class without doing the reading.

Maybe if you went somewhere else you wouldnt have needed 5 surgeries /s

 

[Mattb124]

That’s the problem. Someone clearly ignored multiple aspects of his medical history as well as his long term outlook because there’s no way he should been offered the 7 year deal for 11.5 million.


And before you say no one could have known my posting history indicates otherwise. I strongly intimated that the long term contract was a disaster in making and Wilson was making a colossal mistake.

What aspects of Karlsson's medical history are you privy to that someone in the Sharks organization ignored?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

No offense but a former patient is the last person I would trust when deciding whether a doctor is good or bad at their job. Oftentimes when you're a patient your view on a Dr. will either be outstanding or terrible depending on your results. It's an incredibly biased source. Also, even someone terrible at there job is capable of doing some things right and vice versa people who are great at their jobs can have bad days.

I don't know anything about Ting but just speaking in generalities.

That's great and all but at least I actually know the guy and had dealings with him for almost a decade. It's a ton more than anyone here making proclamations with no actual experience other than click bait articles.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

Maybe if you went somewhere else you wouldnt have needed 5 surgeries /s

This was already explained. He's the only one who actually fixed it. Nice try though.

 

[PattyLafontaine]

What aspects of Karlsson's medical history are you privy to that someone in the Sharks organization ignored?

I am not privy to any special details. I look at a lot of medical reports (thousands a year) and have to assess how injuries affect an individual and how pre-existing conditions have the propensity to lead to injuries due to compensation. I also have a Masters in Sports Management and Sports Analytics.

Achilles Tendon Rupture: Risk Assessment for Aerial and Ground Athletes
Overuse injuries in sport: a comprehensive overview | Journal of Orthopaedic Surgery and Research | Full Text
Functional deficits may be explained by plantarflexor remodeling following Achilles tendon rupture repair: Preliminary findings - ScienceDirect (abstract)

Those are just a few articles that delve into Achilles injuries.

When you sustain an Achilles tendon tear there are compensation related issues. When you take in consideration the torque of the action of skating for a professional athlete and the mechanical deviation that occurs as a result of an Achilles injury it's not really a shock that ongoing groin, quad and calf, problems will occur.

You then take into consideration that the player had already played 9 years of professional hockey (19-27) and had begun to demonstrate bio-mechanical issues prior to the trade.

Erik Karlsson will continue to struggle with lower body injuries for the rest of his career. He can mitigate some of the issues through flexibility-based routines and changing his skating, but he will always be at a severely higher risk for groin, quad, and calf injuries because of his Achilles injury and that has to to do with the biomechanics of skating and rigorous requirements of being a NHL hockey player.

While the trade itself can be questioned. The bigger issue was signing a 8 year contract at 11.5 mil per.

The failure occurred in that the long term signing was predicated on:
1. Signing a player at the end of his prime. Hockey players hit their peak between the ages 23-26. While there are outliers to this figure. This has been the most widely accepted timeframe based on research.
2. Signing a player at the end of his prime with an injury that increases the chances of incurring multiple repetitive injuries
3. Signing said player to a massive cap hit for 8 years at 11.5 million
4. Signing said player to a massive cap hit for 8 years at 11.5 million while holding several questionable to atrocious locked in contracts
5. Signing said player to a contract while still failing to address the lack of a #1 center and top 6 issues meaning that taking a massive risk was not predicated on the Sharks being a player away from the cup.

I will not argue in bad faith vis a vis Stutzle as that outcome of the Sharks pick ending at #3 was one where an extremely unlikely statistical event occurred.

Where I will emphatically argue is that from a medical and risk management perspective the Erik Karlsson long term signing was a complete and utter disaster. It has nothing to do of what I think of Erik Karlsson (I actually like him a lot) .

Now, if you want to argue that the trade and signing were intertwined and that the trade came with the unspoken understood deal of signing a long term deal then I will argue that the trade itself was atrocious.

 

[TheBeard]

Now, if you want to argue that the trade and signing were intertwined and that the trade came with the unspoken understood deal of signing a long term deal then I will argue that the trade itself was atrocious.

It’s where I’m at. I didn’t hate the trade, but I absolutely hated the extension.

 

[Kegsey]

A large part of me believes that Karlsson will try his absolute hardest to play in the Olympics and then maybe look at the rest of his career. There’s zero chance he expects to play for this entire contract.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

A large part of me believes that Karlsson will try his absolute hardest to play in the Olympics and then maybe look at the rest of his career. There’s zero chance he expects to play for this entire contract.

Maybe but we’re talking about the last year of his contract at most.

 

[Eklund72]

This was already explained. He's the only one who actually fixed it. Nice try though.

And what exactly was your injury?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

And what exactly was your injury?

I've detailed it before. I'm done with this subject.

 

[Crazy Joe Divola]

EK made some slick moves in last nights game atleast. Skated/stick handled out of pressure a few times with some nice moves

 

[Karl Prime]

EK made some slick moves in last nights game atleast. Skated/stick handled out of pressure a few times with some nice moves

The past three games have been the best he's looked since January '19. It's been great to see.

 

[matt trick]

The past three games have been the best he's looked since January '19. It's been great to see.

Just so ya know, I really appreciate the fact you've stuck around. It's good to gut check the- looked good, but is he original Karlsson?