Erik Karlsson (Part 6)

[Lebanezer]

Listening to John Scott’s podcast really makes it seem like Karlsson has underwhelmed his teammates. JS doesn’t think he is a good fit there or that he is gonna last.

Karlsson was basically a deity in Ottawa. Then he lost a child, was pushed out by a cheap owner, had a very public spat with a teammate, and was traded. In San Jose he joined a team with a 1st ballot hall of famer, an oddball dman who was a Norris candidate repeatedly, Captain America, a clutch playoff performer, a smiling turtle and all sorts of other personalities. Everything Karlsson has experienced as an NHL player up to the trade was totally abnormal. Now he’s on a team and he’s not the center of anything, he’s not the focal point, he’s not a big deal off the ice with the fans. He’s just a Swedish hockey player in San Jose. This was always going to be a huge adjustment for him. He has to prove himself again to a new team, and if he’s not up to it, then that’s on him. He has to take over the team and dominate if he wants any semblance of what he was used to in Ottawa.

 

[Sysreq]

Got a link/timestamp or anything?

ASG Preview + Hawks Stories on Kane, Toews, Keith

Starts at 25:40.

 

[Pistol Pete]

ASG Preview + Hawks Stories on Kane, Toews, Keith

Starts at 25:40.

That is tough. It appears that John Scott is close with Thornton and some others on the Sharks. I’ve thought of him as a sincere guy but I’ve not listened to his show before or really followed him since he retired. Is he a reliable source?

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

To be honest, I think he looks fine physically and the narrative of him not being able to skate, etc. is incredibly lazy.

What I see in Karlsson's play is second guessing and doubt - which is more of a mental thing. He used to be extremely good at preventing zone entries at the blueline, but now he seems tentative or indecisive - which is leading to him getting caught flat footed and being beat quite easily at times. He neither makes the decision to step up or allow the entry and use a gap control to keep the offense to the outside.

I don't know if this is because he is feeling like he can't physically do it, or because he doesn't want to step up and miss the play, then needing to rely on the goaltending to make the stop. It is something he needs to sort out if we want to see him dominate play again.

Yup. It's not physical at this point. His edge work and stride look great and in the moments he does jump into the play he's still one of the fastest players out there. He's clearly playing tentative other than a few games right after the coaching change when he was regularly deep in the offensive zone. At this point I don't really blame him if he plays not to get hurt the rest of the season. I wouldn't blame a number of players if they did considering how hard this team has been hit with injuries the last few years. This season is lost.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

That is tough. It appears that John Scott is close with Thornton and some others on the Sharks. I’ve thought of him as a sincere guy but I’ve not listened to his show before or really followed him since he retired. Is he a reliable source?

I didn't get that he was close with Jumbo, his stuff sounded like observations. Sounds like a locker room Jumbo fanboy. Clearly he doesn't like EK65. I like JS but this was just some dumb shit. Talking out his ass and ignoring all the other reasons that the Sharks suck. JS says "I thinks", "I believe"... its all speculation, just like here.

 

[Pavelski2112]

I didn't get that he was close with Jumbo, his stuff sounded like observations. Sounds like a locker room Jumbo fanboy. Clearly he doesn't like EK65. I like JS but this was just some dumb ****. Talking out his ass and ignoring all the other reasons that the Sharks suck. JS says "I thinks", "I believe"... its all speculation, just like here.

Yea I love Scott too, but he looks at everything from a purely emotional view.

If he's underwhelming his teammates, they'd better be trying to step up themselves, because he's been one of the only guys on the team that's doing anything.

 

[NWSharkie]

That is tough. It appears that John Scott is close with Thornton and some others on the Sharks. I’ve thought of him as a sincere guy but I’ve not listened to his show before or really followed him since he retired. Is he a reliable source?

Not really. From following the podcast, he's a guy who keeps up with a couple of friends from his time in the league, but isn't trying to be an "insider." His takes on EK9 have been HF-worrhy, and I wouldn't put any more stock in his EK65 takes. He seems like if he had any real "dirt," he'd be too close with the source to talk about it in public.

 

[one2gamble]

Karl would be top 3 in dmen points if the forwards were not terrible

 

[hohosaregood]

Karl would be top 3 in dmen points if the forwards were not terrible

In terms of finesse, he's got nobody to work with up front. Ever forward is too North-South

 

[Anomie2029]

I didn't get that he was close with Jumbo, his stuff sounded like observations. Sounds like a locker room Jumbo fanboy. Clearly he doesn't like EK65. I like JS but this was just some dumb ****. Talking out his ass and ignoring all the other reasons that the Sharks suck. JS says "I thinks", "I believe"... its all speculation, just like here.

John Scott had Pavs on the phone right after the info about him signing with Dallas was broken. He also has a decent relationship with Marleau, Vlasic, and regularly texts with Jumbo and Burns.

It's clear he has a pretty good relationship with that group. He is like a lot of Sharks fans in that he sees both the EKs as the reason that Pavs isn't at the Sharks anymore.

 

[Doctor Soraluce]

John Scott had Pavs on the phone right after the info about him signing with Dallas was broken. He also has a decent relationship with Marleau, Vlasic, and regularly texts with Jumbo and Burns.

It's clear he has a pretty good relationship with that group. He is like a lot of Sharks fans in that he sees both the EKs as the reason that Pavs isn't at the Sharks anymore.

So he's just a bittermen like the people here who hate EK because Pavs had to leave... Emotional and nostalgic to the detriment of the team.

 

[Dicdonya]

John Scott had Pavs on the phone right after the info about him signing with Dallas was broken. He also has a decent relationship with Marleau, Vlasic, and regularly texts with Jumbo and Burns.

It's clear he has a pretty good relationship with that group. He is like a lot of Sharks fans in that he sees both the EKs as the reason that Pavs isn't at the Sharks anymore.

I mean clearly Karlsson's contract forced Pavs out to some extent, but who honestly thinks that Pavs getting 21 mil over three years at his age was a good idea, regardless of whether we had the cap space for it? Heck Marleau wasn't even worth his three contract that paid him less, and Marleau physically outclassed Pavs by a large margin, even now at 40.

Pavs is already not earning his contract in year one, it could be really horrific by year 3.

Kane's contract has nothing to do with Pavs, no idea how anyone could conflate the two.

 

[Anomie2029]

I mean clearly Karlsson's contract forced Pavs out to some extent, but who honestly thinks that Pavs getting 21 mil over three years at his age was a good idea, regardless of whether we had the cap space for it? Heck Marleau wasn't even worth his three contract that paid him less, and Marleau physically outclassed Pavs by a large margin, even now at 40.

Pavs is already not earning his contract in year one, it could be really horrific by year 3.

Kane's contract has nothing to do with Pavs, no idea how anyone could conflate the two.

John Scott has made a comment on multiple occasion about seeing players come into the Sharks and get big contracts "without earning them". That was specifically at Kane and then Karlsson. The reason it relates to Pavs was because it was seen as "you give big contracts to players who have only just got here, but not one to the guy who has been with the club".

Scott doesn't know Karlsson or Kane, so he only speculates on what they are like. That being said, I don't doubt some of the information he gets from those few people he still knows are the Sharks. The level of it can be debated though.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

I don’t think Karlsson’s contract is the reason Pavelski wasn’t signed. I think Karlsson’s contract and the assets used to acquire him are a big reason we have no depth this year, but I think Pavs was gone with or without Karlsson’s big cap hit.

Maybe it’s because I don’t like Karlsson, but it’s easy for me to believe he doesn’t get along with his teammates.

 

[hockeyfan55]

If you're paying a guy 11.5m he better f***ing produce regardless of how your foward core is. I can't think of any other player making the money EK makes, with the poor performance and not getting blamed for it.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I don’t think Karlsson’s contract is the reason Pavelski wasn’t signed. I think Karlsson’s contract and the assets used to acquire him are a big reason we have no depth this year, but I think Pavs was gone with or without Karlsson’s big cap hit.

Maybe it’s because I don’t like Karlsson, but it’s easy for me to believe he doesn’t get along with his teammates.

You really think so? That makes no sense to me because he had the option to sign in a lot of different places but he chose San Jose after spending a full season here.

I do think there is some dissent in that locker room though and I do not know if it can be easily fixed but its something that needs to be fixed sooner than later.

 

[Sysreq]

I didn't get that he was close with Jumbo, his stuff sounded like observations. Sounds like a locker room Jumbo fanboy. Clearly he doesn't like EK65. I like JS but this was just some dumb ****. Talking out his ass and ignoring all the other reasons that the Sharks suck. JS says "I thinks", "I believe"... its all speculation, just like here.

If you listen to other episodes, JS was actually in favor of letting Pavelski walk. He thought Karlsson and Thornton was the right choice. Predicted Pavelski to Dallas even when thinking of landing spots. It genuinely seems like John Scott maintains a pretty good relationship with a number of those guys. Interviewed Pavelski, Couture, Marleau, Goodrow and Stalock. He speaks very highly of Karlsson in the off season as a player. I don’t think he’s hurt over Pavs leaving at all.

 

[Dicdonya]

John Scott has made a comment on multiple occasion about seeing players come into the Sharks and get big contracts "without earning them". That was specifically at Kane and then Karlsson. The reason it relates to Pavs was because it was seen as "you give big contracts to players who have only just got here, but not one to the guy who has been with the club".

Scott doesn't know Karlsson or Kane, so he only speculates on what they are like. That being said, I don't doubt some of the information he gets from those few people he still knows are the Sharks. The level of it can be debated though.

I do not know how exactly I want to word this, but if that is really how the Sharks dressing room feels, its time to gut this team, or the group that thinks this way at least.

The idea that Kane, or Karlsson, after years of playing in this league should somehow have to specifically prove themselves on the Sharks before getting a big contract is insane. There are several reasons I don't like the Karlsson contract, but the last thing I would use as a reason is that he shouldn't have gotten it because he was new to the team.

It isn't shocking though, with how much loyalty DW shows to his players that this sort of attitude would manifest himself among the roster. These sort of comments honestly make me wonder if part of the reason we have never signed a major FA has something to do with this sort of asinine point of view.

Once again, I have no idea how anyone can logically argue that keeping Pavs at 7mil for 3 years would have been a good idea outside of emotional attachment. Even so, Pavs leaving still has nothing to do with Kane's contract, as we had plenty of cap this year to sign Pavs if he wanted, just like Marleau could have a few years ago if he didnt want that third year. Blaming a guy like Kane or Karlsson for getting a contract they earned in this league, just because they didnt earn it specifically playing with the Sharks is just nutty.

 

[CupfortheSharks]

That makes no sense to me because he had the option to sign in a lot of different places but he chose San Jose after spending a full season here.

Good point. Maybe the rift in the locker room didn’t start until after he got that huge contract. I don’t know. Like I said earlier, I don’t like him so maybe that’s clouding my judgment.

 

[Anomie2029]

If you're paying a guy 11.5m he better ****ing produce regardless of how your foward core is. I can't think of any other player making the money EK makes, with the poor performance and not getting blamed for it.

I mean he is leading the team in points, and is one of the highest ranked Dmen in the NHL for 5v5 points...

No one is under the impression he is playing his best hockey, or that he is getting the value of his contract.

 

[sharks_dynasty]

EK’s contract is worth it. Seems high right now, but as the cap goes up, it will get better over time. Just like Kane’s, Hertl’s and Burn’s contracts all seemed high when they were signed. They all seem very reasonable right now.

 

[hockeyfan55]

I mean he is leading the team in points, and is one of the highest ranked Dmen in the NHL for 5v5 points...

No one is under the impression he is playing his best hockey, or that he is getting the value of his contract.

I mean with Hertl and Couture out thats not that impressive. Not to mention the -18. And the top 10 pick he cost...

 

[Pavelski2112]

I mean with Hertl and Couture out thats not that impressive. Not to mention the -18. And the top 10 pick he cost...

-18 on a team where no one is even, plus +/- is a garbage stat. Not to mention that basically no one thought this first would be a lottery pick, and no one could've foreseen that both our top centers would be out at any point long-term. He was still neck and neck with Couture for the points lead when Logan was still in.

No one here is saying that EK is playing up to his contract, but is anyone? Maybe Kane?

 

[Anomie2029]

I mean with Hertl and Couture out thats not that impressive. Not to mention the -18. And the top 10 pick he cost...

He was leading points before Hertl was injured. He was one point behind Couture when he was injured.

I shouldn't have to explain why +/- is an awful stat but here we go - Sharks have had 12 empty net goals against them this season. Want to know who was on the ice for pretty much all of them? On top of that, he was a -2 against Tampa. One was an empty net, and one was Kucherov's backhander where Burns got spun around and there was no real back checking pressure on the 2 on 3.

Oh and the top 10 pick was because of last season, and not re-signing.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I mean with Hertl and Couture out thats not that impressive. Not to mention the -18. And the top 10 pick he cost...

This is my 2nd biggest issue with people who complain about Erik Karlsson. He didn't cost us that pick. The team sucking cost us that pick.