Sportsnet: Erik Karlsson opens up about leaving Ottawa (Video)

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
15,657
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I think you are confusing market value with contract structure. $11M per year is in the ballpark for market value. Not including a NTC or any bonus money is a tough starting point in terms of contract structure but that is why they're called negotiations.
I think people are misunderstanding the NTC. Even if it included a full NMC, the terms of his current contract would still be in force this season, which is a limited NTC. EK had no reason to trust that he wouldn’t be dealt before The new contract kicked in.

As for bonus money, there numerous teams that have a policy of no bonuses as per Dregger. .
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,737
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I think people are misunderstanding the NTC. Even if it included a full NMC, the terms of his current contract would still be in force this season, which is a limited NTC. EK had no reason to trust that he wouldn’t be dealt before The new contract kicked in.

As for bonus money, there numerous teams that have a policy of no bonuses as per Dregger. .

Not entirely correct, A NMC can be applied retroactively to the current contract when a new deal is signed, see the Cary Prices deal as an example.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
53,737
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I think you are confusing market value with contract structure. $11M per year is in the ballpark for market value. Not including a NTC or any bonus money is a tough starting point in terms of contract structure but that is why they're called negotiations.

I don't think you can separate the two; bonus money and no trade clauses are used as chips to bring down dollar values, so they are inherently part of the value of the contract offer. You wouldn't say you paid market value for a new car if you paid the same price as the average buyer, but your car unlike his came with a voided warranty and your financing rate was triple his despite having identical credit scores.
 

Samsquanch

Raging Bull Squatch
Nov 28, 2008
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Sorry, but cheering for the Leafs as your second team is simply not a thing. It's not. You can "care less" about what we think of you, but you need to accept that no one will value any of your opinions and will likely just skip all your posts.

It's not thing. You can't cheer for the Leafs and Sens. You can't be hot AND cold. You can't be hungry and full.

Byeee

Says the guy with 60 posts lolol :laugh:
 
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Samsquanch

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Nov 28, 2008
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How do people have second teams? I can never do that lol. It's Sens or nothing regardless of bad they are.

Because its nice to be able to watch hockey on any night that Im home. I have 3rd and 4th teams too..Doesnt mean that I dont love the Sens dearly, I just like having hockey on in the background at all times.

Ask me if Im a bigger fan of hockey itself or the Senators, and the answer is hockey 10/10 times.

I was a fan of hockey before the Sens came into the league, and played throughout most of my life. My love of hockey goes well beyond the Senators franchise.

I dont give a shit about how bad they are on the ice, but Melnyk's antics off the ice are something that troubles me very, very deeply as a fan.
 

GCK

Registered User
Oct 15, 2018
15,657
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Not entirely correct, A NMC can be applied retroactively to the current contract when a new deal is signed, see the Cary Prices deal as an example.
Thanks. Didn’t realize that was permitted.
 

Goodbahd

Registered User
Dec 17, 2017
652
554
I think people are misunderstanding the NTC. Even if it included a full NMC, the terms of his current contract would still be in force this season, which is a limited NTC. EK had no reason to trust that he wouldn’t be dealt before The new contract kicked in.

As for bonus money, there numerous teams that have a policy of no bonuses as per Dregger. .

NTC’s shouldn’t exist anyway, they handcuff teams, solely to please a player. Who cares about NTC, take your money and shut up. In the end he was dealt, because he never even considered their offer nor was willing to negotiate it.
 

Dino Tkachuk

Ottawa Senators
Jan 6, 2009
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I don't think you can separate the two; bonus money and no trade clauses are used as chips to bring down dollar values, so they are inherently part of the value of the contract offer. You wouldn't say you paid market value for a new car if you paid the same price as the average buyer, but your car unlike his came with a voided warranty and your financing rate was triple his despite having identical credit scores.
I agree to a point. Money and control are always two important points in any negotiation and people/corps will give up some of one for more of the other. That said, that is why it's a negotiation.

My opinion (and I believe it's shared by many) is that neither side had any intention of making this work.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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I agree to a point. Money and control are always two important points in any negotiation and people/corps will give up some of one for more of the other. That said, that is why it's a negotiation.

My opinion (and I believe it's shared by many) is that neither side had any intention of making this work.
Yeah, the damage was probably already done well before 1 Jul. We know Dorion admitted to deciding on the rebuild in Feb. We have a poster who privately shared (and later publicly shared) inside info back in Feb that a decision was made to move on from Karlsson. We don't know whether that decision was made because Karlsson had no intent on re-signing, or if it was made for other considerations, but it seems likely that the Jul 1st offer was never expected to be accepted, and Karlsson himself shared that he didn't feel as though he was in the teams long term plans back then which is a pretty crazy position to start from when negotiated a long term deal.
 
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Multigrain

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Sep 9, 2018
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Yeah, the damage was probably already done well before 1 Jul. We know Dorion admitted to deciding on the rebuild in Feb. We have a poster who privately shared (and later publicly shared) inside info back in Feb that a decision was made to move on from Karlsson. We don't know whether that decision was made because Karlsson had no intent on re-signing, or if it was made for other considerations, but it seems likely that the Jul 1st offer was never expected to be accepted, and Karlsson himself shared that he didn't feel as though he was in the teams long term plans back then which is a pretty crazy position to start from when negotiated a long term deal.
The whole way the Sens and their GM handled the Karlsson situation was awkward. It really made him look like a rookie GM. Not a fan of the Senators front office. I am willing to give the coaching staff 20 games. Comparing PD to other GMs just makes me laugh. He seems very ill equipped to handle the job.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,346
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Yes, because teams you perceive to "play for each other" is the most important factor in winning a Stanley Cup.

It's hilarious. "We fixed the room" has been used by management multiple times in the last 15 years and you are just swallowing it. Guess what, elite players have elite egos. Not everyone likes them, but they win.

You think all of Mark Messier's teammates loved him?

You think Mike Keenan's Rangers all loved him?

You think everyone at Apple loved Steve Jobs?

The fact that you are willing to so happily move on from one of the best defenceman to ever play hockey (FACT) because of something "Chris Wideman" may have implied is incredulous.

Haha, look at you go! My favourite so far over your various posts are your "FACTS", too funny.

Maybe what you need to do is give that visor a wipe, might clear up your vision issues. ;)
 

Samsquanch

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Nov 28, 2008
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My second team is almost always whoever is playing the Leafs. A Senators fan who regularly cheers for the Leafs? That's almost as bad as cheering for Paul Bernardo's legal team in my books.

That's the habs for me. Always have and will be public enemy #1 in my eyes.

I grew up in a leafs family and in a leafs town, and with no good reason not to be a leafs man. My Grandpa grew up with Eddie Shack and played hockey with him in juniors. The fact that I don't bleed blue right now is a testament to my love for the Sens, and I probably got a lot more flack for being a Sens fan irl than most people on this board.

So while some of you still harbor an irrational level of hate (and/or have an inferiority complex) for Toronto and the Leafs, I just cant share that with you.

Beating the leafs feels freaking great, of course. But I'm at the point where I want to see a Canadian club win the cup, and if Toronto are the guys to do it, then come playoff time they're gonna have my full support (assuming we miss).
 
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Ice-Tray

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Strawman...when the same thing happens every single time from the same group of posters? Smith was amazing...until management waived him, now he's nothing. Burrows was the bestest thing since sliced bread...until management decided to buy him out, now he's nothing. Brassard was a great 1B center...until he was traded to Pittsburgh, and the trinkets were received were sooooo awesome. Turris was The Man, until he was traded and now he's barely a 2C.

Over and over and over.

Nac, Smith was 'amazing' in his contract year, and then he wasn't. No one would be complaining if he was still scoring 20ish goals. His play dropped off, and fan opinions followed.

Burrows was a good bottom six guy down the stretch and into the playoffs but underwhelming when compared to expectations, then he fell off a cliff the next year. I think the only issue surrounding him was his extra year, and Dahlen. No one thought Burrows 'was the best thing since sliced bread' (another example of useless hyperbole).

Brassard was never regarded as a great centre, though there was hope at first. He was regarded as a great 2C, or on our team was a 1a/b guy withe Turris. The return for him was solid, as he was viewed as a solid player. I don't think anyone has argued that the return was bad. I'm not sure what the issue here is.

Turris was never 'the man' here. He was a good player for us who had some pretty clutch moments. Not many were willing to have him signed for the contract he got at the time, and even less so right now given his last season. He could look good as a complimentary piece at a cheaper shorter term deal though, which was a popular sentiment at the time of the trade.

In the end, why spread vitriol about the potential board view of Stone and Duchene if they aren't signed. It serves no purpose beyond heaping more hypothetical crap on top of some of the real crap that already exists in here.
 
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Pierre from Orleans

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May 9, 2007
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Sure I watch other teams too but I never make another my 2nd team. Feels instantly weird. I don't even hate the Leafs like other Sens fans do and find them wildly entertaining to watch but I only have 1 team.
 

Ice-Tray

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Jan 31, 2006
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Sure I watch other teams too but I never make another my 2nd team. Feels instantly weird. I don't even hate the Leafs like other Sens fans do and find them wildly entertaining to watch but I only have 1 team.

I know what you mean, I have a hard time even getting into Canucks games here when everyone else is a fan and they have next to zero effect on the success of my favourite team.

There is something wrong with me... I small fan syndrome......
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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I think people are misunderstanding the NTC. Even if it included a full NMC, the terms of his current contract would still be in force this season, which is a limited NTC. EK had no reason to trust that he wouldn’t be dealt before The new contract kicked in.

As for bonus money, there numerous teams that have a policy of no bonuses as per Dregger. .

EK65 could have asked for a retroactive NMC, to cover this season, the last one on his contract, just like Carey Price did when he negotiated his extension with Montreal.

But, EK65 walked away from the reportedly $88 million offer Ottawa made to, and pretty much never got back to them, making it clear he did not want to resign with Ottawa ..... and was asked to contact teams he was willing to be traded to, and try and work out some sort of an extension with them.... to facilitate an acceptable sign (with Ottawa) and trade to that team ............ and there was either no takers, or no team that EK65 wanted to deal with, at this time ...... and that clearly meant there was one thing left for Ottawa to do, and it was a matter of when, and they did it on the first day of training camp.


Lets just if he can command more than the reportedly $88 million he left on the table, in Ottawa, next July after he's an UFA.
 

Karl Prime

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Feb 13, 2017
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Nac, Smith was 'amazing' in his contract year, and then he wasn't. No one would be complaining if he was still scoring 20ish goals. His play dropped off, and fan opinions followed.

If they signed Smith to the deal they did hoping he'd be a top six left winger to score 20 goals just based off that one season, then that's foolish, since he wasn't going to repeat that unless he was glued to Stone and shot 20% again.
 

Tnuoc Alucard

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Sep 23, 2015
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My second team is almost always whoever is playing the Leafs. A Senators fan who regularly cheers for the Leafs? That's almost as bad as cheering for Paul Bernardo's legal team in my books.

Back in the 70's, Montreal was one the teams I did not like very much ........ and when the Canadiens played the Soviet Red Army, on Dec. 31st, 1975 I was cheering for the Russians.

 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
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If they signed Smith to the deal they did hoping he'd be a top six left winger to score 20 goals just based off that one season, then that's foolish, since he wasn't going to repeat that unless he was glued to Stone and shot 20% again.

Certainly there were lots of red flags when that deal was signed. Many people questioned the signing at the time, though it was at a low enough cap hit that if he did pan out as a top 6 20 goal guy, it would have been very team friendly.
 

DueDiligence

Registered User
Nov 16, 2013
8,499
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Nac, Smith was 'amazing' in his contract year, and then he wasn't. No one would be complaining if he was still scoring 20ish goals. His play dropped off, and fan opinions followed.

Burrows was a good bottom six guy down the stretch and into the playoffs but underwhelming when compared to expectations, then he fell off a cliff the next year. I think the only issue surrounding him was his extra year, and Dahlen. No one thought Burrows 'was the best thing since sliced bread' (another example of useless hyperbole).

Brassard was never regarded as a great centre, though there was hope at first. He was regarded as a great 2C, or on our team was a 1a/b guy withe Turris. The return for him was solid, as he was viewed as a solid player. I don't think anyone has argued that the return was bad. I'm not sure what the issue here is.

Turris was never 'the man' here. He was a good player for us who had some pretty clutch moments. Not many were willing to have him signed for the contract he got at the time, and even less so right now given his last season. He could look good as a complimentary piece at a cheaper shorter term deal though, which was a popular sentiment at the time of the trade.

In the end, why spread vitriol about the potential board view of Stone and Duchene if they aren't signed. It serves no purpose beyond heaping more hypothetical crap on top of some of the real crap that already exists in here.


I agree with your points. It's interesting how some posters exaggerate the capability, or lack thereof,, of certain players to justify their argument. Turris the "Man" ; seriously? Right now the Sens have no elite players; Stone and Duchene are very good but still have flaws. Maybe the stay maybe they go but guaranteed if they go the Sens will say they lost more elite players.
Bottom line, even with the reduction in talent the team does seem to be more cohesive than last year.
 
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Samsquanch

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Nov 28, 2008
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Sure I watch other teams too but I never make another my 2nd team. Feels instantly weird. I don't even hate the Leafs like other Sens fans do and find them wildly entertaining to watch but I only have 1 team.

Well I mean its not like I have a special ceremony for another team to officially dub them as "my second", or have divided loyalties.

My second team = the team I tend to watch most AFTER the Sens. This year that happens to be the Leafs. Its not some official spot that I have reserved in my heart...
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
15,319
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Has it been disproved, by anyone?
What the offer was and their bs dance, not that the offer in itself wasn't made, we know it was.

You don't offer McDavid a contract without an ntc and without a competitive bonus structure on a mythical deadlne date after spending months trying to trade him and get to say you made a fair offer he should have taken, you walk out there and own up to not being able to offer the contract it takes to keep a player of his ilk and move on. They tried to put this on him by doing this whole show of the "July 1 contract offer."

Would be no different for Crosby, McDavid, etc.

It's a Senators issue not a Karlsson issue and theor pr mind games didn't work, they should try out honesty instead.
 
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JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,112
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Strawman...when the same thing happens every single time from the same group of posters? Smith was amazing...until management waived him, now he's nothing. Burrows was the bestest thing since sliced bread...until management decided to buy him out, now he's nothing. Brassard was a great 1B center...until he was traded to Pittsburgh, and the trinkets were received were sooooo awesome. Turris was The Man, until he was traded and now he's barely a 2C.

Over and over and over.

you know I do think there is a degree of truth to your point. unfortunately you take a point, exaggerate the hell out of it for whatever reason I do not know and then your point just becomes silly.

quite similar to you're either an EK fan or you want a team of Boros.
 

JD1

Registered User
Sep 12, 2005
16,112
9,686
I think you are confusing market value with contract structure. $11M per year is in the ballpark for market value. Not including a NTC or any bonus money is a tough starting point in terms of contract structure but that is why they're called negotiations.

yup. I agree. but to my question earlier in the thread....I don't understand why there wasn't any negotiation on the EK end. an offer was made. they said no and apparently that was that. the whole thing was odd.

some days I think it's like this

EK wanted out but wanted it to appear he was traded

Mgmt wanted to trade him but wanted it to appear he wanted out.

I wonder to what extent they both got what they wanted and neither side wants to admit it
 
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