Erik Karlsson Megathread (All Proposals, Discussion, Speculation, and Rumors) [MOD 3470]

[EdAVSfan]

If we arent resigning and or trading EK ,then what is difference???We will be totally gassing the team anyhow

Again, you’re talking specifically only about how it relates to EK.

Moving Hoffman was most likely seen as a requirement REGARDLESS of whether EK is there or not.

What organization wants to deal with that cloud over their head for multiple months.

 

[Michoulicious]

What was the rumoured Vegas deal again?

As of right now, I’d challenge you to find another team that will give the senators a 2019 1st round pick as valuable as the ones the Avs have (ottawa’s).

It’s a legitimate point of contention here.

Think of the teams rumoured to want EK, and the value of the picks they’d be sending. There’s likely a huge valley in between.

That 2019 Ottawa's first is the key, of course. But it is still not close to enough to land a guy like Karlsson. Even if Ottawa finishes dead last (which is far from guaranteed), it has more than 50% chance being #4 OA... and 18.5% of becoming Jack Hugues. Kakko, Turcotte, Newhook and Lavoie are nice prospects, but they are no sure fire franchise center like Matthews/Eichel/Tavares/etc.

I think a team like Vegas could go with their 2019 first, Suzuki, C. Miller, A. Tuch and maybe another piece... Not sure they would trade Hague or Glass, but nothing is impossible for E. Karlsson.

 

[Boxscore]

This is a bad idea unless they plan on giving up this years pick because if not Jack Huges goes to Colorado

Which is why some of us keep insisting a fair deal between Ottawa and Colorado is the best win-win option around.

 

[topshelf15]

Again, you’re talking specifically only about how it relates to EK.

Moving Hoffman was most likely seen as a requirement REGARDLESS of whether EK is there or not.

What organization wants to deal with that cloud over their head for multiple months.

He is the biggest reason for this move...He is the focal point of our team ,without him then the rebuild is on full power...And we likely move Hoffman later for picks

 

[Empoleon8771]

That 2019 Ottawa's first is the key, of course. But it is still not close to enough to land a guy like Karlsson. Even if Ottawa finishes dead last (which is far from guaranteed), it has more than 50% chance being #4 OA... and 18.5% of becoming Jack Hugues. Kakko, Turcotte, Newhook and Lavoie are nice prospects, but they are no sure fire franchise center like Matthews/Eichel/Tavares/etc.

I think a team like Vegas could go with their 2019 first, Suzuki, C. Miller, A. Tuch and maybe another piece... Not sure they would trade Hague or Glass, but nothing is impossible for E. Karlsson.

This seems like a ton for Karlsson at this point, to be honest. I don't think his value is this high, especially if the Senators are dead set on moving him. I think you could get Miller, Suzuki, a 2019 1st and another pick for Karlsson and Ryan, but I'm not sure you could get that much more at this point.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Alex Tuch or Shea Theodore
Suzuki or Brannstrom (OTT wanted Glass)
Two 1sts (obviously before VGK traded the 2018 first for Tatar)

I would assume that if Vegas gets back in to the running (most seem to think they are) they would have to acquire a 1st this season to turn around in a deal for EK65.

Vegas remains one of the few competitive teams with the cap space to absorb both Ryan and EK without blowing up the team....Vegas is missing the 2018 1st offered at TDL, but they also have the leeway to throw Neal and/or Perron into the mix, which they couldn't do when mounting up for a playoff run.

 

[pockets]

Which is why some of us keep insisting a fair deal between Ottawa and Colorado is the best win-win option around.

Not sure if NYI is willing but I think the Sens should try to acquire the 11th and 12th picks from the Islanders for EK, then give up the 4th OA this year to the Avs thus keeping their '19 1st...

 

[Michoulicious]

Vegas remains one of the few competitive teams with the cap space to absorb both Ryan and EK without blowing up the team....Vegas is missing the 2018 1st offered at TDL, but they also have the leeway to throw Neal and/or Perron into the mix, which they couldn't do when mounting up for a playoff run.

Perron and Neal are UFA, unfortunately.

 

[EdAVSfan]

He is the biggest reason for this move...He is the focal point of our team ,without him then the rebuild is on full power...And we likely move Hoffman later for picks

So in your opinion, it’s pretty much guaranteed that EK is re-signing?

 

[garyturner3]

Ryan is overpaid by 25%, no doubt. But he is still a decent player, capable of scoring 25 goals on a 2nd line - he's just paid too much. This would be an issue if the Avs weren't 6 mil (or something like that) under the cap floor! If any team has the ability to absorb Ryan's deal to land Karlsson at a discounted price, it's Colorado. Without Ryan's contract, an extended Karlsson is going to cost a lot more than 2 picks and a couple of non-roster players. This is the best (or at least top-3) defenseman on the planet at 27.

How many years in a row does he need to play like he's not capable of putting up those sort of numbers before people will be convinced that's who he is now? I know he's had finger injuries, but come on. Even when healthy he's looked like a shadow of that player other than the small 19 game sample size from the 2017 playoffs that everyone loves to bring up while at the same time ignoring the 200+ game sample size over the last 4+ years that screams he's just not the goal scorer he used to be anymore. If Ryan ever scores 25 goals again I would be shocked beyond belief.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Which is why some of us keep insisting a fair deal between Ottawa and Colorado is the best win-win option around.

But if I'm Colorado I am NOT giving up that pick Huges is a future franchise player and Karlsson can bolt in a year

 

[Boxscore]

I think we need to be realistic here, and some Sens fans need to look at this objectively. This current Sens team is not the same chummy, overachieving group that went on a miracle run two years ago under Karlsson, Turris, Methot, Anderson and the Hamburlar, etc. That team was riding an emotional high and were playing for Anderson's wife, Murray, etc. It was a magical run. But that is long gone.

This current sens team traded a haul to land Duchene (who the Avs did so much better without), moved a heart-and-soul leader like Turris, are saddled with Ryan's bad contract, just traded one of their better scorers (Hoffman) for pennies on the dollar due to his own drama, and are now on the verge of seeing their franchise player walk after next season for nothing.

Anyone who thinks the Sens don't need a full-on rebuild is in denial.

 

[IceNeophyte]

Perron and Neal are UFA, unfortunately.

Yes, you are correct. And they aren't going to sign n trade for Ottawa (no offense to Ottawa, but would you?)

 

[Boxscore]

But if I'm Colorado I am NOT giving up that pick Huges is a future franchise player and Karlsson can bolt in a year

Dude, the deal would only be done if the Avs and Karlsson have worked out a verbal agreement... we've mentioned this numerous times. No team is giving up great assets unless they have spoken to Karlsson and know if he's willing to re-sign with them.

 

[PensandCaps]

How many years in a row does he need to play like he's not capable of putting up those sort of numbers before people will be convinced that's who he is now? I know he's had finger injuries, but come on. Even when healthy he's looked like a shadow of that player other than the small 19 game sample size from the 2017 playoffs that everyone loves to bring up while at the same time ignoring the 200+ game sample size over the last 4+ years that screams he's just not the goal scorer he used to be anymore. If Ryan ever scores 25 goals again I would be shocked beyond belief.

I mean he looked like that player just last year where he had a great playoffs.

If Ryan stays healthy, he is more than capable of being a 25 goal or 50 point scorer. He is still a good hockey player. Problem is his contract.

 

[Michoulicious]

But if I'm Colorado I am NOT giving up that pick Huges is a future franchise player and Karlsson can bolt in a year

That pick has less than 1/5 chance of becoming Hugues, even if Ottawa finishes dead last.

 

[topshelf15]

So in your opinion, it’s pretty much guaranteed that EK is re-signing?

Yep,it makes the most sense...If Ottawa was totally gassing the team ,then why wouldnt you either wait for EK to be moved first.Or second take just draft picks for him,then take cap dumps from cap starved teams to gain the floor for even more picks....

Instead of trading away an issue, for a decent LW albeit slightly overpaid with some term..And giving up picks,this trade makes no sense otherwise....PD may come off as kinda inexperienced ,but nobody would do this deal if there wasnt more attached to it

 

[Echo Roku]

Yep,it makes the most sense...If Ottawa was totally gassing the team ,then why wouldnt you either wait for EK to be moved first.Or second take just draft picks for him,then take cap dumps from cap starved teams to gain the floor for even more picks....

Instead of trading away an issue, for a decent LW albeit slightly overpaid with some term..And giving up picks,this trade makes no sense otherwise....PD may come off as kinda inexperienced ,but nobody would do this deal if there wasnt more attached to it

The trade makes no sense in your rendition either.

And it’s been said that Ottawa never was offered what Florida gave for Hoffman

 

[topshelf15]

The trade makes no sense in your rendition either.

And it’s been said that Ottawa never was offered what Florida gave for Hoffman

It has been already said in Ottawa we didnt want picks for Hoffman we wanted an nhl player in addition to some picks......So again why on earth did we do this trade ,if EK is for sure out the door and we are blowtorching our team???

 

[Echo Roku]

It has been already said in Ottawa we didnt want picks for Hoffman we wanted an nhl player in addition to some picks......So again why on earth did we do this trade ,if EK is for sure out the door and we are blowtorching our team???

Okay, you’re knee deep in circular logic

I’m bowing out of that particular discussion. Not worth the hassle

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

That pick has less than 1/5 chance of becoming Hugues, even if Ottawa finishes dead last.

But at worst it would be #4 If I'm Colorado that pick is untouchable

 

[JoemAvs]

Which is why some of us keep insisting a fair deal between Ottawa and Colorado is the best win-win option around.

Its just no a very good idea for Colorado unless he comes really cheap. Which won't happen because after the Duchene deal, Dorion certainly can not afford to lose another trade with Colorado again.

Avs are 12 months removed from a season where they finished with 19 points less than the trainwreck that was last years Senators team was. Worst season in the last 10+ years in the whole NHL.

Avs went very young and with no expectations into the season, handed over the lockerroom to the young guys which worked out well, had a lot of things go right (MacKinnon having a Hart level season as the major one), surprised everyone and snuck into the playoffs on the last day of the season.

Avs are in the Central Division. People including Avs fans seem to conveniently overlook that. Winnipeg and Nashville are two of the best 3-5 teams in the league right now and are built to be all-in for a cup in the next 2-3 years.
Avs have to get past these two teams if they want to reach the Conference Finals. And the rest of the Central is not exactly weak either.

Does sacrificing a lot of the young assets you have painfully accumulated over the last 2 years for a 28 year old Karlsson ( who if you are lucky signs a 11-12M deal till he is 36 which in itself is a bit iffy given his injury history) make you a better team or atleast as good of a team as NSH and WPG are right now?

And I think the answer to that is No given the Avs lack of secondary scoring, heavy reliance on youth as well as a shaky future when it comes to their goaltending.

Avs are in the midst of a rebuild IMO and rushing that just because we did way better than everyone expected last year would be a mistake. Probably a very costly one. Avs should hold on to that pick and see what is out there in Free Agency. Avs can afford to overpay a bit in capspace.

I could live with Barrie + Sens 1st if the Avs foolishly decide they want to go all in now as long as Mac is on a bargain contract. Barrie has only two years left and I am not sure I want to give him OEL money so I am not opposed to moving him. Anything more than that would IMO a pretty bad move.

Hopefully they just sit this one out and wait and see what happens. The 2019 draft seems to have exactly what the Avs need at the top.

 

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

It has been already said in Ottawa we didnt want picks for Hoffman we wanted an nhl player in addition to some picks......So again why on earth did we do this trade ,if EK is for sure out the door and we are blowtorching our team???

It’s pretty odd to see a fan of the sharpest declining team in the league going so hard in the paint.

You haven’t been humiliated enough? Do you really want to hear the I Told You So’s again?

 

[topshelf15]

Okay, you’re knee deep in circular logic

I’m bowing out of that particular discussion. Not worth the hassle

What hassle???My opinion does have merit,my facts all follow a realistic course ....But hey might as well keep on with the Ottawa is a mess , and nothing is going to go right for us ever theme...... Everybody here has hoped on board with

 

[Vegan Knight]

That 2019 Ottawa's first is the key, of course. But it is still not close to enough to land a guy like Karlsson. Even if Ottawa finishes dead last (which is far from guaranteed), it has more than 50% chance being #4 OA... and 18.5% of becoming Jack Hugues. Kakko, Turcotte, Newhook and Lavoie are nice prospects, but they are no sure fire franchise center like Matthews/Eichel/Tavares/etc.

I think a team like Vegas could go with their 2019 first, Suzuki, C. Miller, A. Tuch and maybe another piece... Not sure they would trade Hague or Glass, but nothing is impossible for E. Karlsson.

I could definitely see Glass being included if Dorion were a good GM. But he isn't really so Suzuki is maybe what the price would be.

I also wouldn't discount the idea Vegas gives up both 2019 and 2020 1sts in the deal rather than an extra prospect or other piece.

Vegas also has 2 2nds and 3 3rds in 2019 and 3 2nds in 2020.

I think Vegas would feel confident that they could possibly jump back into the late 1st round in both 2019 and 2020 if they desired or at the very least one of them.