Erik Karlsson Megathread (All Proposals, Discussion, Speculation, and Rumors) [MOD 3470]

[stempniaksen]

You guys are going about this wrong, imo. It's not about value (well it is, but that's secondary), it's about shedding as much money as humanly possible.

The reported Vegas offer was draft picks and prospects (ELC's). This should be the template teams should try and follow in regards to a Karlsson deal.

 

[TomasHertlsRooster]

You guys are going about this wrong, imo. It's not about value (well it is, but that's secondary), it's about shedding as much money as humanly possible.

The reported Vegas offer was draft picks and prospects (ELC's). This should be the template teams should try and follow in regards to a Karlsson deal.

One thing to consider; San Jose could always try and package pieces like Justin Braun, Chris Tierney, and their #21OV to try and move into the top-10 of this year’s draft. Perhaps instead of two of LaBanc/Meier, San Jose could offer one of those players, the #10OV which they acquire in my hypothetical, and Joshua Norris in exchange for Karlsson+Ryan. Just a thought. Not sure how Oilers fans or other fans in the top-10 would feel about my proposal for the #10OV.

 

[Boxscore]

I think the Senators trade Karlsson to the Colorado Avalanche this summer. Here's why:

The Sens are most likely keeping the 4th overall pick this year, which means the Avs will own their "unprotected" 1st overall in 2019, with Jack Hughes in play. Why is this important? This influences any deal the Sens can make for Karlsson, if he intends to move on and not re-sign.

If the Sens trade Karlsson for picks and prospects (which is what they apparently want) and also get a team to take Ryan's contract off their hands, they are heading into the season with less talent than they have today, including their best player and captain. And, let's say they select Tkachuk, Boqvist or Bouchard at 4 - there is a good chance none of them play in the NHL next season.

This means the Sens are in bad shape, and have potential to be a lottery team, heading into a year where they don't own their own pick... with "the next Patrick Kane" up for grabs. That is, unless they workout a trade with Ottawa to resolve both of these issues in one swoop. If they trade Karlsson to the Avs, and part of the return is their 1st rounder in 2019, they:

1. Can take their time and rebuild, and if they are really bad they have a legit crack at a franchise-changing player in Jack Hughes

2. Can trade Karlsson for picks / prospects without worrying how it will screw them in 2019 (the Hughes pick)

Then it comes down to why the Colorado Avalanche are a good fit for Karlsson:

1. Karlsson is good friends with Avs captain, Gabe Landeskog

2. The Avs are under the cap floor and could pay Karlsson the money he wants long-term

3. The Avs have enough cap space to absorb Bobby Ryan's contract (which the Sens would love to parlay into a Karlsson deal)

4. The Avs are a playoff team, and have a bright young future and core, which is an attractive sell

5. The Avs currently have the Sens 1st rounder in 2019 and could package that with a top young D in Girard, Makar or Timmons

6. The Avs have Peter Forsberg to call on to pitch Karlsson on Denver and how much he enjoyed his time with the Avs

7. The Avs have Joe Sakic, who is very respected by NHL players, which makes it likely that Karlsson would at least "listen"

8. The Avs are out West, so the Sens would not need to worry about a Karlsson trade hurting them, or have to face him 4 times a year

I think, if Karlsson could be sold on Denver, this is a deal that could be a huge win-win for both Ottawa and Colorado.

The Sens draft Tkachuk, Wahlstrom, Boqvist, Hughes or Bouchard at 4. Then add one of Girard, Makar, Timmins, plus their 1st rounder in 2019 which could very well be a crack at Jack Hughes. The 4th overall plus one of those D kids start a healthy rebuild process for Ottawa. If they happen to win the Jack Hughes lottery in 2019, their rebuild is expedited by A LOT. Moving Ryan's contract out gives them the money they need to comfortably re-sign Stone long-term. There could be another asset or two conditionally included IF / WHEN Karlsson signs long-term with the Avs.

From Colorado's perspective, they made the playoffs this season and currently feature one of the best lines in the NHL. They are an exciting team that is trending up, and with the addition of an elite player like Karlsson, they could rocket up in the West. If Karlsson isn't the best defenseman in the NHL, he's in the Top 3, and he's still in his prime at 27 years old. The Avs could potentially have an elite, Norris trophy winner for the next 7 years to play alongside MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Jost, etc.

The Avs are also suddenly loaded with 3 awesome, young D players in Girard, Makar and Timmins. Even if one is included in a Karlsson deal, they still have 2 others, as well as Tyson Barrie and Nikita Zadorov.

This also gives the Avs a ton of flexibility when it comes to Barrie and his role. If they feel Karlsson is a big upgrade over Barrie, they could move him, if they feel Girard can replace some of his minutes, or if Makar / Timmins is close to ready. There will be a healthy trade market for a RHD like Barrie. For arguments sake, could the Avs trade Barrie to Edmonton for Nugent-Hopkins or a top prospect like Puljujarvi+?

However, if the Avs want to keep Barrie with Karlsson on board, they now have 2 PP's that could inflict tons of punishment. And, let's consider the Preds D model of having 4 dynamic defensemen. Josi, Subban and Ellis are all very much offensive-minded, so there's no reason the Avs can't roll out Karlsson, Barrie, Johnson, Girard and Zadorov... and feature a very explosive back-end... especially with Makar / Timmins waiting in the wings.

I could see a deal like this...

TO COL
- Karlsson (w/ permission for the Avs to at least have preliminary discussions to gauge Karlsson's interest in Denver)
- Ryan
** IF KARLSSON DOES NOT SIGN WITH COLORADO
- 2020 2nd round pick

TO OTT
- The return of their 2019 1st rounder (could be lottery pick)
- Timmins
- Compher
** IF KARLSSON SIGNS WITH COLORADO
- 2020 1st round pick

And, while this deal might seem "underwhelming" for a player of Karlsson's caliber, we need to consider a couple of non-traditional components:

1. The Sens are also shedding Ryan's contract in the process, and freeing up a lot of cap dollars, which is a great asset in a cap NHL

2. The Sens now have the flexibility to rebuild "the right way" and will not need to make short-term decisions for 2018-19, so they don't gift the Avs a lottery pick. Now they can take their time, and if anything, increase their chances of landing Jack Hughes, or a top-3 pick in 2019.

 

[Goulet17]

Erik Karlsson
Bobby Ryan


Tyson Barrie
Cale Makar
2019 1st (OTT)

Thoughts?

Colorado would not be including Makar in any trade for Karlsson. The Sens could ask, but I don't believe that Karlsson would be a strong enough priority to ever consider it.

Not to mention that that Avs would not take on Ryan's contract IMO, few teams would at this point.

 

[Goulet17]

I think the Senators trade Karlsson to the Colorado Avalanche this summer. Here's why:

The Sens are most likely keeping the 4th overall pick this year, which means the Avs will own their "unprotected" 1st overall in 2019, with Jack Hughes in play. Why is this important? This influences any deal the Sens can make for Karlsson, if he intends to move on and not re-sign.

If the Sens trade Karlsson for picks and prospects (which is what they apparently want) and also get a team to take Ryan's contract off their hands, they are heading into the season with less talent than they have today, including their best player and captain. And, let's say they select Tkachuk, Boqvist or Bouchard at 4 - there is a good chance none of them play in the NHL next season.

This means the Sens are in bad shape, and have potential to be a lottery team, heading into a year where they don't own their own pick... with "the next Patrick Kane" up for grabs. That is, unless they workout a trade with Ottawa to resolve both of these issues in one swoop. If they trade Karlsson to the Avs, and part of the return is their 1st rounder in 2019, they:

1. Can take their time and rebuild, and if they are really bad they have a legit crack at a franchise-changing player in Jack Hughes

2. Can trade Karlsson for picks / prospects without worrying how it will screw them in 2019 (the Hughes pick)

Then it comes down to why the Colorado Avalanche are a good fit for Karlsson:

1. Karlsson is good friends with Avs captain, Gabe Landeskog

2. The Avs are under the cap floor and could pay Karlsson the money he wants long-term

3. The Avs have enough cap space to absorb Bobby Ryan's contract (which the Sens would love to parlay into a Karlsson deal)

4. The Avs are a playoff team, and have a bright young future and core, which is an attractive sell

5. The Avs currently have the Sens 1st rounder in 2019 and could package that with a top young D in Girard, Makar or Timmons

6. The Avs have Peter Forsberg to call on to pitch Karlsson on Denver and how much he enjoyed his time with the Avs

7. The Avs have Joe Sakic, who is very respected by NHL players, which makes it likely that Karlsson would at least "listen"

8. The Avs are out West, so the Sens would not need to worry about a Karlsson trade hurting them, or have to face him 4 times a year

I think, if Karlsson could be sold on Denver, this is a deal that could be a huge win-win for both Ottawa and Colorado.

The Sens draft Tkachuk, Wahlstrom, Boqvist, Hughes or Bouchard at 4. Then add one of Girard, Makar, Timmins, plus their 1st rounder in 2019 which could very well be a crack at Jack Hughes. The 4th overall plus one of those D kids start a healthy rebuild process for Ottawa. If they happen to win the Jack Hughes lottery in 2019, their rebuild is expedited by A LOT. Moving Ryan's contract out gives them the money they need to comfortably re-sign Stone long-term. There could be another asset or two conditionally included IF / WHEN Karlsson signs long-term with the Avs.

From Colorado's perspective, they made the playoffs this season and currently feature one of the best lines in the NHL. They are an exciting team that is trending up, and with the addition of an elite player like Karlsson, they could rocket up in the West. If Karlsson isn't the best defenseman in the NHL, he's in the Top 3, and he's still in his prime at 27 years old. The Avs could potentially have an elite, Norris trophy winner for the next 7 years to play alongside MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Jost, etc.

The Avs are also suddenly loaded with 3 awesome, young D players in Girard, Makar and Timmins. Even if one is included in a Karlsson deal, they still have 2 others, as well as Tyson Barrie and Nikita Zadorov.

This also gives the Avs a ton of flexibility when it comes to Barrie and his role. If they feel Karlsson is a big upgrade over Barrie, they could move him, if they feel Girard can replace some of his minutes, or if Makar / Timmins is close to ready. There will be a healthy trade market for a RHD like Barrie. For arguments sake, could the Avs trade Barrie to Edmonton for Nugent-Hopkins or a top prospect like Puljujarvi+?

However, if the Avs want to keep Barrie with Karlsson on board, they now have 2 PP's that could inflict tons of punishment. And, let's consider the Preds D model of having 4 dynamic defensemen. Josi, Subban and Ellis are all very much offensive-minded, so there's no reason the Avs can't roll out Karlsson, Barrie, Johnson, Girard and Zadorov... and feature a very explosive back-end... especially with Makar / Timmins waiting in the wings.

I could see a deal like this...

TO COL
- Karlsson (w/ permission for the Avs to at least have preliminary discussions to gauge Karlsson's interest in Denver)
- Ryan
** IF KARLSSON DOES NOT SIGN WITH COLORADO
- 2020 2nd round pick

TO OTT
- The return of their 2019 1st rounder (could be lottery pick)
- Timmins
- Compher
** IF KARLSSON SIGNS WITH COLORADO
- 2020 1st round pick

I don't think Colorado would ever consider a deal for Karlsson without feeling 99.99% sure that he will be signing long term with them.

The other issue that people overlook is that a deal for Karlsson would require Colorado to convert "exempt" assets for "non-exempt" assets, which likely would create a significant problem for Colorado in terms of the anticipated 2020 expansion draft.

Colorado will have to protect MacKinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog, Jost, Erik Johnson, Samuel Girard, Barrie (potentially) and Zadorov, likely leaving players like Kerfoot and Compher exposed. If the Avs added Karlsson and Ryan (depending on Ryan's NMC/NTC contract terms), it would leave the Avs having to expose some extremely valuable youngish players. It just doesn't work for the Avs.

 

[Freudian]

Avs aren't going to trade for Karlsson. Too expensive and there is a good chance Karlsson wouldn't sign any extension to start with. He's one year from picking his preferred destination.

Any team trading for him have to treat him as a rental is my guess.

 

[Boxscore]

Colorado would not be including Makar in any trade for Karlsson. The Sens could ask, but I don't believe that Karlsson would be a strong enough priority to ever consider it.

I happen to agree. I think the Sens would want Makar or Girard, but would ultimately settle for another great D prospect in Timmins as part of any Karlsson trade.

C
Not to mention that that Avs would not take on Ryan's contract IMO, few teams would at this point.

I actually disagree. If the Sens are willing to retain, say 20%, I think the Avs would concede to this part of the deal, if they feel Karlsson would commit to them long-term. The Avs are 6 mil under the cap floor, and can absorb 80% of Ryan's cap hit. Let's not forget - Ryan is still a good player, he's just overpaid. But it's not like the Avs would be trading for David Clarkson here. Ryan could play on the 2nd line and score 25 goals and 30 assists for sure with the Avs. He could legitimately help them... he's just expensive.

 

[Blue Goose]

Maybe another conditional pick or something, but it looks about right with Ryan in there. I still think Vegas can beat any other offer out there, just a matter of if they want to now, as they may just bring the whole team back after this season.

Ryan replaces Perron. Tatar replaces Neal. Karlsson replaces Sbisa. Rest of the team stays intact - with Hunt/Merrill filling the void left by Theodore if he's part of the package going to Ottawa. $12.35M in cap going out, with $13.75M in cap coming back.

The reported Vegas offer was draft picks and prospects (ELC's). This should be the template teams should try and follow in regards to a Karlsson deal.

If the deal happens after the draft, I could see it being Suzuki + Theodore + 2019 1st + 2020 2nd (VGK has three) for Karlsson and Ryan, with no salary retention from Ottawa.

The other issue that people overlook is that a deal for Karlsson would require Colorado to convert "exempt" assets for "non-exempt" assets, which likely would create a significant problem for Colorado in terms of the anticipated 2020 expansion draft.

And it's been reported that Vegas will be exempt from the 2020 expansion draft as well.

 

[Eltuna]

I think the Senators trade Karlsson to the Colorado Avalanche this summer. Here's why:

The Sens are most likely keeping the 4th overall pick this year, which means the Avs will own their "unprotected" 1st overall in 2019, with Jack Hughes in play. Why is this important? This influences any deal the Sens can make for Karlsson, if he intends to move on and not re-sign.

If the Sens trade Karlsson for picks and prospects (which is what they apparently want) and also get a team to take Ryan's contract off their hands, they are heading into the season with less talent than they have today, including their best player and captain. And, let's say they select Tkachuk, Boqvist or Bouchard at 4 - there is a good chance none of them play in the NHL next season.

This means the Sens are in bad shape, and have potential to be a lottery team, heading into a year where they don't own their own pick... with "the next Patrick Kane" up for grabs. That is, unless they workout a trade with Ottawa to resolve both of these issues in one swoop. If they trade Karlsson to the Avs, and part of the return is their 1st rounder in 2019, they:

1. Can take their time and rebuild, and if they are really bad they have a legit crack at a franchise-changing player in Jack Hughes

2. Can trade Karlsson for picks / prospects without worrying how it will screw them in 2019 (the Hughes pick)

Then it comes down to why the Colorado Avalanche are a good fit for Karlsson:

1. Karlsson is good friends with Avs captain, Gabe Landeskog

2. The Avs are under the cap floor and could pay Karlsson the money he wants long-term

3. The Avs have enough cap space to absorb Bobby Ryan's contract (which the Sens would love to parlay into a Karlsson deal)

4. The Avs are a playoff team, and have a bright young future and core, which is an attractive sell

5. The Avs currently have the Sens 1st rounder in 2019 and could package that with a top young D in Girard, Makar or Timmons

6. The Avs have Peter Forsberg to call on to pitch Karlsson on Denver and how much he enjoyed his time with the Avs

7. The Avs have Joe Sakic, who is very respected by NHL players, which makes it likely that Karlsson would at least "listen"

8. The Avs are out West, so the Sens would not need to worry about a Karlsson trade hurting them, or have to face him 4 times a year

I think, if Karlsson could be sold on Denver, this is a deal that could be a huge win-win for both Ottawa and Colorado.

The Sens draft Tkachuk, Wahlstrom, Boqvist, Hughes or Bouchard at 4. Then add one of Girard, Makar, Timmins, plus their 1st rounder in 2019 which could very well be a crack at Jack Hughes. The 4th overall plus one of those D kids start a healthy rebuild process for Ottawa. If they happen to win the Jack Hughes lottery in 2019, their rebuild is expedited by A LOT. Moving Ryan's contract out gives them the money they need to comfortably re-sign Stone long-term. There could be another asset or two conditionally included IF / WHEN Karlsson signs long-term with the Avs.

From Colorado's perspective, they made the playoffs this season and currently feature one of the best lines in the NHL. They are an exciting team that is trending up, and with the addition of an elite player like Karlsson, they could rocket up in the West. If Karlsson isn't the best defenseman in the NHL, he's in the Top 3, and he's still in his prime at 27 years old. The Avs could potentially have an elite, Norris trophy winner for the next 7 years to play alongside MacKinnon, Landeskog, Rantanen, Jost, etc.

The Avs are also suddenly loaded with 3 awesome, young D players in Girard, Makar and Timmins. Even if one is included in a Karlsson deal, they still have 2 others, as well as Tyson Barrie and Nikita Zadorov.

This also gives the Avs a ton of flexibility when it comes to Barrie and his role. If they feel Karlsson is a big upgrade over Barrie, they could move him, if they feel Girard can replace some of his minutes, or if Makar / Timmins is close to ready. There will be a healthy trade market for a RHD like Barrie. For arguments sake, could the Avs trade Barrie to Edmonton for Nugent-Hopkins or a top prospect like Puljujarvi+?

However, if the Avs want to keep Barrie with Karlsson on board, they now have 2 PP's that could inflict tons of punishment. And, let's consider the Preds D model of having 4 dynamic defensemen. Josi, Subban and Ellis are all very much offensive-minded, so there's no reason the Avs can't roll out Karlsson, Barrie, Johnson, Girard and Zadorov... and feature a very explosive back-end... especially with Makar / Timmins waiting in the wings.

I could see a deal like this...

TO COL
- Karlsson (w/ permission for the Avs to at least have preliminary discussions to gauge Karlsson's interest in Denver)
- Ryan
** IF KARLSSON DOES NOT SIGN WITH COLORADO
- 2020 2nd round pick

TO OTT
- The return of their 2019 1st rounder (could be lottery pick)
- Timmins
- Compher
** IF KARLSSON SIGNS WITH COLORADO
- 2020 1st round pick

And, while this deal might seem "underwhelming" for a player of Karlsson's caliber, we need to consider a couple of non-traditional components:

1. The Sens are also shedding Ryan's contract in the process, and freeing up a lot of cap dollars, which is a great asset in a cap NHL

2. The Sens now have the flexibility to rebuild "the right way" and will not need to make short-term decisions for 2018-19, so they don't gift the Avs a lottery pick. Now they can take their time, and if anything, increase their chances of landing Jack Hughes, or a top-3 pick in 2019.

I’m an Avs fan that has been beating this drum for awhile now who is surprisingly one of the only Avs fans to actually want to acquire Karlsson. Some think he’s too old which I think is crazy considering 28 is prime years for a dman and EK will still be effective 10 years from now. Sometimes people get caught up in youth I think, not everybody needs to be 22 years old. Mackinnon/Karlsson stacks up pretty well against the other elite 1C/1D duos of the last decade like Toews/Keith, Kopitar/Doughty, Bergeron/Chara, and Crosby/Letang. Having the two hardest positions to fill locked up at 6.3 for Mackinnon and around 11 for EK through both of their primes is such an obvious move to me if it’s at all possible.

Your value is fine but I think a better fit exists. I’d like to do a reverse Duchene trade where Karlsson is the Duchene and Barrie is the Turris. I think Barrie needs to be included because having Karlsson/Barrie/Makar/EJ all on the right side doesn’t make much sense for the Avs. Edmonton has been openly shopping for a dman just like Barrie and I think would easily trade their 10th overall in a package for him.

Edm:Barrie
Ott: Ott 2019 1st, 10th overall, Yamamoto, Russel, Nash 2nd
Avs: Ryan @ 5.5 + Ek

Is a proposal I’ve made many times and I really believe fits all teams needs. Ottawa would probably get additional pieces from the Avs but nothing major like Timmins/Girard, a b level prospect or another 2nd/3rd round pick could be added to Ottawa’s end but I think as a base this fits all teams needs. Colorado gets the star, Edmonton get a perfect fit puck moving RHD, and Ottawa gets two top 10 picks + other futures + a lot of salary off the books.

 

[Hockeyholic]

Thoughts?

 

[LeafChief]

Monahan back to Ottawa. Don't hate it.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Is Ottawa also sending the Flames back Stone?

 

[Potty John]

my thought is no.

 

[TSA0402]

Ottawa was looking at Braun or Theodore +++ in exchange for Karlsson.

Now you're saying we get Hamilton and Monahan signed long term. Not even a huge Hamilton fan based on the contract.. even Melnyk and his cheap philosophy couldn't say no to this one...

 

[Hockeyholic]

Is Ottawa also sending the Flames back Stone?

So are you being sarcastic and hinting this deal is bad for Ottawa? Or legitimately asking if the Sens are adding Stone because it's currently unfavorable for Calgary?

I can't tell...lol...

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Calgary isn’t trading Monahan, so just leave him out.

Hamilton for Karlsson straight up is probably as good of an offer the Sens would get.

 

[Studzle]

Calgary isn’t trading Monahan, so just leave him out.

Hamilton for Karlsson straight up is probably as good of an offer the Sens would get.

 

[SML2]

Do the reports of the massive level of dysfunction in the Sens locker room and front office make you think that Karlsson would agree to anything like signing a contract ahead of time so the Sens can get a greater return?

 

[pown]

Calgary isn’t trading Monahan, so just leave him out.

Hamilton for Karlsson straight up is probably as good of an offer the Sens would get.

And then you woke up.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

If the Sens deal Karlsson, they should target a young franchise player. That’s why I think Hamilton would be an ideal target for him. If Vegas wouldn’t even deal Glass, what kind of futures are they going to get back? A 1st rounder in the range of 5-15, + (B+) level prospect (ie. Suzuki) + roster player (ie. Tuch). None of those pieces are likely to become anything close to what Karlsson is to that franchise. Meaning that type of deal will set the franchise back 5-7 years of early 1st round picks and rebuilding. A team in Ottawa’s current situation might not be able to withstand that especially when you consider Colorado will get their pick next season.

 

[DownGoesMcDavid]

Calgary isn’t trading Monahan, so just leave him out.

Hamilton for Karlsson straight up is probably as good of an offer the Sens would get.

Hamilton doesnt even.get you Karlsson's jock.

Monahan + 1st 2019 and 1st 2020 is probably good value.

But i dont think.Ottawa would trade Karlsson having the main return as Monaham because of Monahans injuries.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

And then you woke up.

You are dreaming if you think Karlsson is going to return Hamilton and Monahan. Not a single GM in the NHL would pay that kind of price, nor should they. Karlsson also is not going to be extended before being dealt. History tells us you are not going to get an equivalent piece to Karlsson in return, so I’m not sure why you think I’m dreaming. If the Flames offered Hamilton, you should take that deal and run.

 

[Johnny Hoxville]

Hamilton doesnt even.get you Karlsson's jock.

Monahan + 1st 2019 and 1st 2020 is probably good value.

But i dont think.Ottawa would trade Karlsson having the main return as Monaham because of Monahans injuries.

Monahan wouldn’t be offered to start, so you do not have to worry.

 

[Owen Doty]

if you're getting brad treliving this drunk you might as well ask him to throw in gaudreau while you're at it too

 

[pown]

You are dreaming if you think Karlsson is going to return Hamilton and Monahan. Not a single GM in the NHL would pay that kind of price, nor should they. Karlsson also is not going to be extended before being dealt. History tells us you are not going to get an equivalent piece to Karlsson in return, so I’m not sure why you think I’m dreaming. If the Flames offered Hamilton, you should take that deal and run.

Karlsson is the number 1 dman in the league and will be the highest paid dman after his next contract, are you actually telling me that the best he would fetch would be Dougie Hamilton for a 1 on 1 D swap? Dougie doesnt even crack the top 15D man list . I hope you are kidding. Karl would fetch any other Dman in the league 1 for 1.

#NHLTopPlayers: Top 20 Defensemen