Erik Karlsson - 23 games, 2 goals, 15pts. -6

[Bizz]

Jones has been left out to dry on so many goals this season.

Not true at all. Pretty much every goal he gave up in his first 3 starts were 100% on him. Luckily he seems to have turned it around the last few games.

 

[Masked]

So he will win another Norris this season?

No, but he might get robbed of another one to complete the trifecta of Norris Trophies he should have won but didn't.

 

[Masked]

If you're results-oriented. But when it comes to advanced stats, for instance:

When did silly stats become more important than reality?

 

[6 Karlsson 5]

When did silly stats become more important than reality?

This is a typical response from someone who doesn't understand why people use statics.

 

[swiftwin]

Sharks are a possession team and Karlsson is a counter-attacking transition player.

Karlsson is still going to be effective, but just not as effective as he was in Ottawa.

 

[swiftwin]

• 9 games into the season
• +/- is an absurd stat. He was -2 in one game because Jones could stop a beach ball, and the other goal was an empty netter.
• He has put up 5 assists.
• He has a strong corsi rating.
• He is still learning to play in the Sharks systems, and the other players are still getting used to playing with him.

Happy with Karlsson so far.

corsi is equally as absurd as +/-

corsi is just the +/- of shots

 

[BruinsBtn]

To early to say...

But is there something wrong in his movement?
I remember Erik way more flashy and fast mover.

Ottawa fans, what do you think?

He looks better when the CBC announcers fawn over every play he makes.

 

[Masked]

This is a typical response from someone who doesn't understand why people use statics.

Statics? You can't even spell the word and you're telling me I don't understand them?

For what it's worth I understand statistics really well. That's why I call these ones silly stats. They're created by people who want to be the Bill James of hockey but they just aren't smart enough to really understand how useless they are.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Has anyone here besides Sharks fans actually watched all 9 games? He is off to a slow start, in a new city, on a new team, in a new system after being THE GUY in Ottawa for his entire career. Of course he is going to be off to a slow start.

Please stop this "he's not happy" "he hates the bay area" "he is xyz". Are you his bff or wife? You just sound like a moron because by all indications he has fit in well and he and Burns already look like best friends.

My biggest fear when trading for Karlsson as a Sharks fan was that I was going to have to read 214234 threads about Karlsson and the Sharks from people who have 1. never been to CA let alone the Bay Area and 2. Don't even watch the damn games because they are in bed when the puck drops.

Seriously...hardly anyone in Northern California surfs...our beaches (outside of Santa Cruz) are freaking gloomy and cold. How many more times am I going to have to read these generalizations about a state that takes 12 hours to drive from the top to the bottom as though we all live in Hollywood

 

[Mick Riddleton]

Always thought he was overrated, = good for sure but not great

 

[tom_servo]

Amusing thread. FWIW I was ready to trade Phil Kessel back after ~40 games in '16. Needless to say, adjustments were made.

 

[SabresSharks]

The amount of people talking out of their ass in this thread is relatively high, and some of them happen to have thousands of posts in less than a year. Is it one of those situations where you say a lot without actually ever saying anything of substance?

Russian bots confirmed.

 

[Spirit of 67]

When did silly stats become more important than reality?

When reality doesn't make your point.

 

[SjMilhouse]

Don't think he wanted to be in SJ, doesn't look like he is happy there or fits into the system. He's been bad defensively for them. I seriously doubt he re-signs with SJ in the off season. Most likely go back to Ottawa. He's been average thus far, SJ doesn't look dangerous either.

"Me and [Karlsson] have been together almost as much as me and my wife over the last two weeks," Burns said with a chuckle. "He's been an awesome guy. He's been really easy to get along with."

stop baseless speculation. You are trolling

 

[Bonzo111]

 

[iCanada]

I'm just curious, since you seem to advocate corsi, at what point does +/- become relevant? I'm no fan of +/-, but it's essentially the same stat as corsi. The difference is you get a much bigger sample size from corsi. But if you like corsi at some point the +/- must reach a big enough sample size to draw your attention, no?

I mean, if a player plays 1000 games in the NHL with a negative corsi but positive +/-, don't you then say "ok, maybe this player really didn't harm the teams he played for".

Using the Oilers as an example, corsi folks talk about Kris Russell as the worst defenseman in the league but in 150+ games and three seasons with the Oilers he's just a -1. Also, comparing Larsson and Klefbom who's corsi stats are nearly identical over the last three years (Klefbom has the slight edge), Klefbom is a -6 and Larsson is a +33 in that time span.

Again, I'm no advocate for +/-, but it boggles me how often I see the same people act as if corsi is the best stat ever and +/- the worst when in fact, at some level, they are related.

The other thing about this that drives me nuts... its bizarre to me that corsi is hailed as a stronger stat then plus minus.

One measures goals which actually wins games and the other measures shots which maybe win games.

We moved from measuring outcomes to measuring opportunities for outcomes.

Its wacky when you look at other sports advanced stats; in baseball for example they moved from measuring batting% (chance for an outcome) to measuring onbase% (the actual outcome). Seems backwards to me. I'd argue that a better player would score more on the same shot / give up less dangerous chances from the same opposition plays; id rather have a guy who consistently scores 30 goals on 250 shots than a guy who consistently scores 25 goals on 300 shots and think most would as well, but most of these same people champion corsi as this ultra stat.

I don't get it.

 

[Bonzo111]

The other thing about this that drives me nuts... its bizarre to me that corsi is hailed as a stronger stat then plus minus.

One measures goals which actually wins games and the other measures shots which maybe win games.

We moved from measuring outcomes to measuring opportunities for outcomes.

Its wacky when you look at other sports advanced stats; in baseball for example they moved from measuring batting% (chance for an outcome) to measuring onbase% (the actual outcome). Seems backwards to me. I'd argue that a better player would score more on the same shot / give up less dangerous chances from the same opposition plays; id rather have a guy who consistently scores 30 goals on 250 shots than a guy who consistently scores 25 goals on 300 shots and think most would as well, but most of these same people champion corsi as this ultra stat.

I don't get it.

I'm with you on that.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The Sharks are the best Corsi team in the league after nine games. They're the best scoring chance differential team in the league. They're the second best high-danger scoring chance differential team in the league to the Devils. They have one of the worst PDO's in the league. They're not getting the goaltending they should overall in this stretch and they're not burying as many pucks as they should in this stretch. But from goal line to goal line, they're the best team in the league right now at even strength and they are dominating all three zones without getting the results yet on the scoreboard. Their power play has been improving the east coast trip. Their PK is looking good. This team's going to get better when Karlsson finds his groove and Thornton gets healthy again.

 

[PatrikBerglund]

Can someone explain why Vlasic suddenly decided he was going to run the offence, while being paired with #65?

How does that make any sense?

 

[SabresSharks]

Has anyone here besides Sharks fans actually watched all 9 games? He is off to a slow start, in a new city, on a new team, in a new system after being THE GUY in Ottawa for his entire career. Of course he is going to be off to a slow start.

Please stop this "he's not happy" "he hates the bay area" "he is xyz". Are you his bff or wife? You just sound like a moron because by all indications he has fit in well and he and Burns already look like best friends.

My biggest fear when trading for Karlsson as a Sharks fan was that I was going to have to read 214234 threads about Karlsson and the Sharks from people who have 1. never been to CA let alone the Bay Area and 2. Don't even watch the damn games because they are in bed when the puck drops.

Seriously...hardly anyone in Northern California surfs...our beaches (outside of Santa Cruz) are freaking gloomy and cold. How many more times am I going to have to read these generalizations about a state that takes 12 hours to drive from the top to the bottom as though we all live in Hollywood

The Bay Area lifestyle is top-quality for those who can afford it. Don't know where he's living, but setting up house in Los Gatos or some equally pleasant burg, and I can't imagine him and the wife being unhappy. Southern Ontario boys like Thornton, Burns, and Couture will show him the way. He's got Sorenson and Melker for a Swedish perspective. There's no reason at all why he wouldn't fit in, personally and culturally, with the Sharks and in the Bay Area.

As far as his play is concerned, I admit to being a bit disappointed, but also know that problem will correct itself. He's not just another d-man to plug into a system. He's a special player, whose talents need to be properly exploited and whose tendencies need to be understood by his teammates. The coaching staff is making progress there. While he's not racking up points, I'm enjoying the subtle aspects of his game that distinguish him as a unique talent - consistently hitting the right player with a crisp on-the-tape pass, the quick stick that strips a puck off a much stronger opponent, knowing when to make the safe chip off the boards and when to rocket up the ice with the puck.

So happy we have him. Great things to come. The doubters can get stuffed.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

The other thing about this that drives me nuts... its bizarre to me that corsi is hailed as a stronger stat then plus minus.

One measures goals which actually wins games and the other measures shots which maybe win games.

We moved from measuring outcomes to measuring opportunities for outcomes.

Its wacky when you look at other sports advanced stats; in baseball for example they moved from measuring batting% (chance for an outcome) to measuring onbase% (the actual outcome). Seems backwards to me. I'd argue that a better player would score more on the same shot / give up less dangerous chances from the same opposition plays; id rather have a guy who consistently scores 30 goals on 250 shots than a guy who consistently scores 25 goals on 300 shots and think most would as well, but most of these same people champion corsi as this ultra stat.

I don't get it.

It's rightfully hailed as a stronger stat because there's more to sample from than goals. Not that it's some perfect stat but it is definitely better than goals. But you can look further than Corsi to measure how well the Sharks are doing right now. 5 on 5, they ought to be leading the conversation for best in the league right now. Karlsson, for all the criticism he is going to get from outsiders not keeping up, is very much a large contributor to that. But his +/- is a mix of a couple defensive mistakes on his part and poor goaltending behind him as well. That looks to be resolving itself though. I'll be happy with a 45 point Karlsson when the team is playing the way it is overall.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Can someone explain why Vlasic suddenly decided he was going to run the offence, while being paired with #65?

How does that make any sense?

He has to adjust too. I don't know why people are saying all of a sudden he's running the offense. He has been running the offense when he's on the ice the past six seasons playing with Braun.

 

[Samsquanch]

The other thing about this that drives me nuts... its bizarre to me that corsi is hailed as a stronger stat then plus minus.

One measures goals which actually wins games and the other measures shots which maybe win games.

We moved from measuring outcomes to measuring opportunities for outcomes.

Its wacky when you look at other sports advanced stats; in baseball for example they moved from measuring batting% (chance for an outcome) to measuring onbase% (the actual outcome). Seems backwards to me. I'd argue that a better player would score more on the same shot / give up less dangerous chances from the same opposition plays; id rather have a guy who consistently scores 30 goals on 250 shots than a guy who consistently scores 25 goals on 300 shots and think most would as well, but most of these same people champion corsi as this ultra stat.

I don't get it.

To take it one step further, we've actually seen people recently using corsi to trump actual production (ie player A with half the points was better than player B through the first 9 games because of, you guessed it, Corsi).

Wacky times we're living in I tell ya.

 

[Skolman]

don't be ridiculous, of course that trade still hurts you.

I'm a Capitals fan and that Forsberg trade still hurts us, and we won a ****ing cup!

You see those trades as similar?

 

[iCanada]

It's rightfully hailed as a stronger stat because there's more to sample from than goals. Not that it's some perfect stat but it is definitely better than goals. But you can look further than Corsi to measure how well the Sharks are doing right now. 5 on 5, they ought to be leading the conversation for best in the league right now. Karlsson, for all the criticism he is going to get from outsiders not keeping up, is very much a large contributor to that. But his +/- is a mix of a couple defensive mistakes on his part and poor goaltending behind him as well. That looks to be resolving itself though. I'll be happy with a 45 point Karlsson when the team is playing the way it is overall.

Obviously I'm simplifying for the sake of simplicity, i just thunk often corsi is over cited as this be all end all, but i don't think it is the be all end all. Its a descriptive stat that gives you an idea to the context of a players play, but it ignores winning outcomes.

The thing about it that's nice is that it has a much higher sample size than simply goals / goals against.

It is certainly a good tool to have in my opinion, i just think often its cited as "the only tool." Imo, +/- is a better "the only tool" than corsi. But... we have all the tools so we should use all of them. We have a set of fixed wrenches, a ratchet, and a few adjustable spanners... no need to just use one of these tools.