Yeah I just worry that he won't waive his NMC or that for respect of his tenure the front office doesn't even ask. Right now he is barely passable as top 4 defenseman, more likely a bottom pair at this point and has lost some of his offensive spark even though some he is still a leader on the team. I don't think he deserves to be bought out by any stretch but as soon as next year he could hamper the best roster choices for the team and I was just curious what everyone's thoughts were on the possibility. Retirement would be the most ideal if he continues to slide and can't even provide NHL level contribution.
Salary Cap: Erik Johnson
- Thread starter Andrew Wiggin
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I agree but how long do you accommodate that if it starts hurting the team?
This is what I worry about. I get he deserves some measure of respect from the front office, team and the fans but I think those considerations should only go so far. My concern is the front office will let that play out to the detriment of the team.
The underlying numbers and the eye test show the slide is not just about points, but I agree he still does ok in some areas. Yes we would still have money on the books but an additional $4M could be the difference between adding an average player and an actual good player on either the D corps or the F group.
TheRarestDangles
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MaKarter
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I ask myself if EJ will ever hoist the Cup. I believe the AVS will win at least one Cup with the core players, but I am not sure it will be when EJ is still playing.
rmthomson21
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TheRarestDangles
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Foppa2118
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Fortunately EJ isn't a bottom pairing defender. He's still the Avs #2 and best defensive/all around defenseman, and will continue to be so until Timmins gets comfortable in the NHL.
EJ led the Avs in ice time in 4 of the last 6 games, and they won all of them. They also only gave up 4 total goals in all four games. Giving up 1, 1, 2, and 0.
Avs are also the 6th best team in the league right now, and only 2 points behind the Blues for best in the West playing EJ as their go to shutdown guy.
larueskee
Player/Member USA Hockey or affilates 1972-2006
Ej is not a true shut down guy and his plus minus his second to Girard's who is the worst on the team. Ej doesn't really play a shut down defense as he is always or frequently dicking around in the o zone looking for self gratification. EJ is one of the most guilty of extending their shifts which usually lead to bad goals or increased workloads in the Avs own end. Coach has got to get control of the many defense shift extenders if this team is going to go any where in the playoffs. It starts with EJ.
Not even close.
But his cap hit is less of a problem than it was looking to be last year.
When the time comes to make a decision. Joe needs to be ruthless and not let emotions get in the way. It's crucial to building a good team long term.
Foppa2118
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I don't understand why you keep trying to convince people that +/- is at all a relevant stat. Everyone knows it isn't. It's incredibly misleading.
Everything else you mention here is just made up problems. Dicking around in the O zone? What does that even mean? He barely plays in the O zone anymore. All he does is hold pucks in, and drive the net off the rush which is what he's supposed to do.
The extended shift thing is a non issue. He's their workhouse, of course he's the last to change. It's not something that causes the team problems.
Foppa2118
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Who's better defensively or all around? Ryan "I've played with Makar/Girard and the top line all season so my +/- is insanely inflated" Graves? Or Ian "I'm just gonna play this 1 on 1 by letting my man skate in all alone, and then take out my own goaltender" Cole?
Both guys make way more mistakes every game than EJ, and do so playing less minutes most nights. EJ is 2nd in both total and 5 on 5 ice time, and has led the team in minutes during a lot of their win streak lately.
I feel like when I watch EJ this season he has a lot more jump early in games than late. I just feel like he's way overworked and the big mistakes he's making are late in games. Had a horrible, almost lazy-looking turnover last night that nearly led to a goal against and was completely lost on Toffoli's game-winner. Colorado really needs to find that top-four guy, and soon.
He was hardly the biggest problem on the Avs' blueline last night though. Cole was a absolute disaster, Zadorov may have been worse (his turnover really WAS lazy), and Graves was overhandling the puck and making bad passes all night. Makar looked kinda meh, but I didn't think he was bad. Girard was about the only guy for the Avs on defense I thought was pretty solid throughout.
He was hardly the biggest problem on the Avs' blueline last night though. Cole was a absolute disaster, Zadorov may have been worse (his turnover really WAS lazy), and Graves was overhandling the puck and making bad passes all night. Makar looked kinda meh, but I didn't think he was bad. Girard was about the only guy for the Avs on defense I thought was pretty solid throughout.
hooverdam
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EJ's decision-making is just atrocious this season. That's the biggest thing for me; has it always been this bad and he was just able to cover for it with his physical talents (which aren't there anymore)? Or has he legitimately gotten dumber? You watch him take long, long seconds to make a choice and it's inevitably the wrong one, every time. Then he watches as those wrong choices lead to chances against. It doesn't always cost the Avs but it's incredibly frustrating when it does, and it happens more and more as games go on.
Foppa2118
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He wasn't the problem on those plays either though.
On the goal, Compher lost the face-off clean (which has led to at least 4 or 5 goals against this year), then Donskoi got bumped by Iafollo and got in EJ's way while he was trying to get to Toffoli who was his man, because that's who he was lined up with off the face-off.
Then it became a broken play because Toffoli whiffed on his first shot but it went right to where he could get it in the slot and score.
Do you remember when the bad turnover was? I just skimmed through his shifts in the 3rd and didn't see one but I might have missed it.
This is the only thing close, but he played it like he was supposed to. Compher just couldn't get the puck out.
I think we have a great six at the back when everyone is healthy. Including EJ. But I wouldn't say he stands out against the rest of them in any aspect of his game. It's not that he has regressed very much. It's just that his competition isn't Holden, Guenin, Stuart and Hejda anymore. We're in a good place. But your 6M d-man shouldn't just be "one of the six". But as long as we can afford to re-sign the rest, things are ok, for now.
Funny how you didnt include Zadorov, Girard, or Makar when making snarky sarcastic remarks about guys that are supposedly worse defensively than EJ.
The only guy on this team worse than Erik Johnson at this point is Ian Cole. Even Zadorov is playing better than EJ(Though that's probably because or the minutes Zadorov is getting).
I thought it was late in the game, he was trying to move the puck up the boards or something and then it looked like he veered off. It was a terrible play, but I can't remember when it happened.
But I'll just very respectfully disagree with you on EJ's defensive prowess. I don't think he's anywhere near the level you're claiming. And frankly he never really has been. His defense has never been a central tenet of his game, it's his offense that really made him stand out.
Foppa2118
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Fair enough. Though I have to disagree with the last statement. For the bulk of his career, and his entire tenure in Colorado, I think defense has been a bigger part of his role than offense.
He was better offensively a few years ago than he is now, but a lot of that is his role changing now. He's mostly been paired with Girard the last couple years, and he defers to him with the puck most of the time because he's much better with it. This has led him to settling into a more defensive role.
That said, I think his passing has been better this season than I've seen from him in a long time. This used to be a real weak point from him, and although it's not necessarily a strong point now, he's been distributing the puck well and accurately to his D partners and forwards for the most part.
Foppa2118
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I don't know why you can't figure out how to disagree with someone without making it personal. You literally do this every time and you've taken up this strategy of projecting your own issues onto others constantly. Like accusing others of being snarky when that's pretty much all you do here.
I didn't include Zadorov, Girard, or Makar because it should be obvious they aren't as good as EJ defensively. Only bias would lead you to think otherwise.
Makar will be solid defensively in his career, but is still learning as a rookie. Graves helps him out a lot right now, and when Makar has to go back to get pucks with forecheckers on him, he gets into trouble sometimes.
G had a terrible start to the year defensively, and showed what I was saying in another thread. That he has to play near perfect, because the margin for error with him is much smaller than bigger defenseman. His season didn't turn around until he was paired with EJ full time to help cover for him below the goal line and in front of the net where he struggles with strength battles. He also has issues with 1 on 1 battles sometimes if the forward makes a good move to put G in a bad body position where he can't get his stick on the puck.
I like Zadorov (a lot more than you based on your commentary about him) but he's in no way shape or form, better than EJ defensively. He's much more inconsistent and plays a smaller role against weaker competition than EJ. Z's been playing on the 3rd pair with Cole for a while now, and he's 5th in total ice time, and 4th at even strength. EJ is 2nd in both. EJ also leads the team in PK minutes per game. Z is 4th.
It’s all Monopoly money until the team gets against the cap which might not be until his contract ends and the year after that I want EJ’s $6million going to MacKinnon anyway.
Him and Cole both burn out quick and go full stupid at times. I don't mind either of them when we're able to manage their minutes. Problem is we can't always because of the youth mistakes from our top three, or injuries. But I won't keep pounding my fatigue drum.
You and CGF are the only two that seem to take it seriously. I just don't get any satisfaction from constantly trashing EJ or Cole really. They are warriors that are getting older on a skating team.
Well, the slightly re-jiggered defensive pairings made a lot more sense. Zadorov and EJ essentially traded places. I think Sammy still has some issues playing on the right side but for the most part it looked like it worked. And EJ with Cole made a ton more sense as there was simply NO puck skill on that third pairing previously.
Anyway, I'd have to see what the TOI totals were but I do hope this is a move toward more "load management" for both EJ and Cole. I know not everyone will agree with it but I just don't think either guy can handle major minutes anymore.
Anyway, I'd have to see what the TOI totals were but I do hope this is a move toward more "load management" for both EJ and Cole. I know not everyone will agree with it but I just don't think either guy can handle major minutes anymore.
Northern Avs Fan
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They pretty much played the pairings evenly last night.
I worry about the mobility of Cole-EJ together, but it could be very effective bottom pair. I thought they were solid against NY.
