Erik Johnson Discussion

[Pokecheque]

So, a couple questions. How do you think he’s playing? And what does his future look like with the Avs?

I've been a big fan of the Condor for years. He's had to endure a team that sat on its hands and then, of course, the Season of Doom. It's gotta be no end of frustrating for him to be breaking down physically just as this team is finally turning the corner.

My opinion is that he has not been adequate, certainly not in the quasi-top four role that Bednar has him in, And I'm not even sure they can wait to make a decision on him until 2021, which would have been the Day of Reckoning. Not sure what you do here. I'm guessing if a move is made, it'll be in the offseason.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

I've been a big fan of the Condor for years. He's had to endure a team that sat on its hands and then, of course, the Season of Doom. It's gotta be no end of frustrating for him to be breaking down physically just as this team is finally turning the corner.

My opinion is that he has not been adequate, certainly not in the quasi-top four role that Bednar has him in, And I'm not even sure they can wait to make a decision on him until 2021, which would have been the Day of Reckoning. Not sure what you do here. I'm guessing if a move is made, it'll be in the offseason.

You either have to buy him out, or make a deal for a better player, and then play EJ as a #5/6 Dman. That's pretty much the only options.... that or pray he decides to retire early or his back forces him to go on LTIR.

IMO, he's not going to waive and agree to be dealt, and Seattle isn't taking him in the XD unless you pay them handsomely to do so.

 

[Pokecheque]

You either have to buy him out, or make a deal for a better player, and then play EJ as a #5/6 Dman. That's pretty much the only options.... that or pray he decides to retire early or his back forces him to go on LTIR.

IMO, he's not going to waive and agree to be dealt, and Seattle isn't taking him in the XD unless you pay them handsomely to do so.

I just don't think anyone is trading for that contract. Then again, I didn't think anyone would be dumb enough to take on Erik Notgudbranson and yet these dumb GMs keep finding even dumber GMs to take him.

It's probably a buyout, which is pretty unpalatable right now but it's not bad. If they wait until 2021 it shaves off two years.

Sure hope they don't LTIRetire him.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

He should be used strictly as a bottom pairing and second unit pk guy moving forward. ~15 minutes a night.

Even in that role he'll be struggling to keep up within a year.


Avs need to consider dumping that contract or buying him out in the summer of 2021. We can get by with it on the books for next year but not when Makars big raise kicks in.

 

[larueskee]

3 more years after this one at 6 million per year is awful for the Avs the way he is playing right now. His responsibilities need to be cut along with his ice time until he improves. What I see is a one time good player not accepting that he has lost something. It happens all the time in sports and coaches too many times fail to understand that guys get old. EJ can still be effective but I think he would be better suited for a non contending team.

 

[cgf]

He was doing pretty well until he got hurt, since coming back he's been notably worse despite having his role shrunk. Kinda exactly like last season...

Dunno if starting him off in a lesser role would've helped keep him healthy for longer or made it easier for him to come back from his injury, still in form; but moving forward we need to hope that it will. That contract will be a problem either way, given that Joe's not going to dump someone who has been as loyal as EJ; Joe's simply not that cut-throat.

 

[Pokecheque]

Dunno if starting him off in a lesser role would've helped keep him healthy for longer or made it easier for him to come back from his injury, still in form; but moving forward we need to hope that it will. That contract will be a problem either way, given that Joe's not going to dump someone who has been as loyal as EJ; Joe's simply not that cut-throat.

Agreed, but it's also getting close to the point where he may not have a choice.

 

[henchman21]

Kind of a crazy thought, but since EJ is going to be around... I think the Avs should make him more of a 4/7 sort of guy. Meaning, when he plays, he plays a top 4 role... but he is routinely scratched to stay fresh. No back to backs, no more than 3 games in a week... when there are only 3 games a week for a multiple weeks in a row, he only plays 2. Limit his games to ~50 or less. I don't imagine them ever doing this, but I think it would be a way to keep him fresh and healthy for when it matters.

 

[Pokecheque]

Kind of a crazy thought, but since EJ is going to be around... I think the Avs should make him more of a 4/7 sort of guy. Meaning, when he plays, he plays a top 4 role... but he is routinely scratched to stay fresh. No back to backs, no more than 3 games in a week... when there are only 3 games a week for a multiple weeks in a row, he only plays 2. Limit his games to ~50 or less. I don't imagine them ever doing this, but I think it would be a way to keep him fresh and healthy for when it matters.

That I'd be down with. But I don't know if he would be.

 

[shadow1]

He’s been better than last year but his game to game consistency is really bad. I consider him a shaky top-4 defenseman, and I definitely think he’ll retire here.

I don’t think his contract matters than much when Byram and Timmins will be on their ELC’s the next three years.

 

[cgf]

Kind of a crazy thought, but since EJ is going to be around... I think the Avs should make him more of a 4/7 sort of guy. Meaning, when he plays, he plays a top 4 role... but he is routinely scratched to stay fresh. No back to backs, no more than 3 games in a week... when there are only 3 games a week for a multiple weeks in a row, he only plays 2. Limit his games to ~50 or less. I don't imagine them ever doing this, but I think it would be a way to keep him fresh and healthy for when it matters.

Would it? I don't really remember most of his injuries & the wear n tear has certainly hampered his ability to recover, but for some reason I remember most of his injuries coming more from the isolated event variety than the build of wear-n-tear. And giving him more rest wouldn't really do anything for those isolated-event injuries other than decrease the amount of time he's on the ice in which one of those isolated-events could happen.

...but I don't really feel confident in that and am too lazy to look up EJ's injuries right now, so I'm genuinely asking; not just asking rhetorically

 

[Pokecheque]

He’s been better than last year but his game to game consistency is really bad. I consider him a shaky top-4 defenseman, and I definitely think he’ll retire here.

I don’t think his contract matters than much when Byram and Timmins will be on their ELC’s the next three years.

It's not the cap hit that's the problem, it's the NMC come 2021.

 

[cgf]

He’s been better than last year but his game to game consistency is really bad. I consider him a shaky top-4 defenseman, and I definitely think he’ll retire here.

I don’t think his contract matters than much when Byram and Timmins will be on their ELC’s the next three years.

I've always found this argument really underwhelming because it's not like our only choices for that money are to give it to EJ or the ELC-kids. We're close to contending -- and have been for a while -- but we still need some key secondary pieces that that money could be getting spent on during these seasons in which we are going to be spending little on our young blueliners.

Especially when varients of "we can just give him EJ's money" have often been used as a reason to not worry about how MacK's next contract will impact our cap-outlook in the future.

 

[Pokecheque]

And the money IS an issue. It's just not sensible to continue spending close to $10 million on a pair of broken-down veteran defenders.

A buyout this summer would leave a dead cap hit of $2 million the next six seasons. They would save $4 million the first three years, but then those cap savings evaporate. If they tough out one more year, you can slice off a third of that total.

 

[cgf]

And the money IS an issue. It's just not sensible to continue spending close to $10 million on a pair of broken-down veteran defenders.

A buyout this summer would leave a dead cap hit of $2 million the next six seasons. They would save $4 million the first three years, but then those cap savings evaporate. If they tough out one more year, you can slice off a third of that total.

Yeah, if Joe was ruthless enough to do it, a buyout next summer would be manageable. But we have to get through one more season of "hey look EJ's still got it...damn, he broke again...ugh he's been a lot rougher since getting back" before it becomes feasible.

BTdubs this is why I say that the EJ NMC shouldn't be an Expansion Draft issue...even though I also recognize that Joe isn't the type to threaten to buy EJ out if he refuses to waive, like he did Beauch.

 

[Pokecheque]

Yeah, if Joe was ruthless enough to do it, a buyout next summer would be manageable. But we have to get through one more season of "hey look EJ's still got it...damn, he broke again...ugh he's been a lot rougher since getting back" before it becomes feasible.

BTdubs this is why I say that the EJ NMC shouldn't be an Expansion Draft issue...even though I also recognize that Joe isn't the type to threaten to buy EJ out if he refuses to waive, like he did Beauch.

Did they even ask Beauch to waive? I think they just cut him the hell loose, he was too awful to retain regardless.

 

[henchman21]

Would it? I don't really remember most of his injuries & the wear n tear has certainly hampered his ability to recover, but for some reason I remember most of his injuries coming more from the isolated event variety than the build of wear-n-tear. And giving him more rest wouldn't really do anything for those isolated-event injuries other than decrease the amount of time he's on the ice in which one of those isolated-events could happen.

...but I don't really feel confident in that and am too lazy to look up EJ's injuries right now, so I'm genuinely asking; not just asking rhetorically

Not a guarantee, but I think it would be his best chance at being fresh consistently. EJ plays through a lot and it is well known his back is jacked. The major injuries would probably still happen, but I'd attack that as a plan. It would require a good bottom pairing RD though. That player would have to be able to play up and do it well.

 

[cgf]

Not a guarantee, but I think it would be his best chance at being fresh consistently. EJ plays through a lot and it is well known his back is jacked. The major injuries would probably still happen, but I'd attack that as a plan. It would require a good bottom pairing RD though. That player would have to be able to play up and do it well.

I do like the idea...as it would also help ease Timmins up the lineup if he was ready to be that 3rd RS...and yeah, exhaustion is the best way to f*** up an already jacked back; so it should help make that more manageable for him as well. Was more just second-guessing my memory of EJ's injuries.

Pity that some form of rotation/load-management hasn't caught on in hockey yet.

 

[cgf]

Did they even ask Beauch to waive? I think they just cut him the hell loose, he was too awful to retain regardless.

Nah, you're right. That was just really badly worded on my part; got caught between edits.

 

[Avs71]

I think Sakic could be surprisingly ruthless.

-Wouldn’t re-sign Hejduk.
-Shipped Tanguay to Arizona.
-Made Duchene play almost an extra year after asking for a trade.
-Bought out Beauchemin and Stuart.

These aren’t extreme examples, but Sakic has traded Duchene, O’Reilly, and Barrie. Let Varlamov and Stastny walk. He pretty much got rid of the old core, and EJ was once a part of that.

I definitely wouldn’t rule out Sakic somehow getting rid of EJ if it meant saving a good roster player.

 

[Thepoolmaster]

I think his game has deteriorated a tonne and I dont expect it to get better anytime soon.


He's going to be our awful contract we have to deal with here soon enough. Which isnt a bad thing I guess as the contract wont be that bad, but it will be something that needs to be addressed.

I don't think we ever trade him and I think he's an Avs guy for life now, but his minutes need to be dialed back a bunch soon enough. He should be our 3rd pairing stay at home, pk specialist type by next year.

EJ's a bad contact but luckily Byram will be making near league minimum. At that point while EJ will be playing like a bottom pair defense for #3 money Byram will hopefully be playing #2 level for #5/6 money. Of course this means we can't upgrade but it could be much worse.

 

[LieutenantDangle]

The problem I see with EJ is that in the past before his physical decline he only looked solid when he was playing huge minutes. Now that he’s incapable of playing huge minutes I just don’t seeing him being productive even in a reduced roll. It’s a bummer to watch unfold because he’s one of my favorite players, but he’s in rapid decline

 

[henchman21]

EJ's a bad contact but luckily Byram will be making near league minimum. At that point while EJ will be playing like a bottom pair defense for #3 money Byram will hopefully be playing #2 level for #5/6 money. Of course this means we can't upgrade but it could be much worse.

Base Byram will make little, but he will certainly hit some bonuses. If the Avs are against the cap, they roll over and count where Byram could still earn more. Within a realm of possibility that Byram is effectively 3-4m on the cap in 2022 or 2023.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Kind of a crazy thought, but since EJ is going to be around... I think the Avs should make him more of a 4/7 sort of guy. Meaning, when he plays, he plays a top 4 role... but he is routinely scratched to stay fresh. No back to backs, no more than 3 games in a week... when there are only 3 games a week for a multiple weeks in a row, he only plays 2. Limit his games to ~50 or less. I don't imagine them ever doing this, but I think it would be a way to keep him fresh and healthy for when it matters.

So load management. I be ok with that.

 

[shadow1]

I've always found this argument really underwhelming because it's not like our only choices for that money are to give it to EJ or the ELC-kids. We're close to contending -- and have been for a while -- but we still need some key secondary pieces that that money could be getting spent on during these seasons in which we are going to be spending little on our young blueliners.

Especially when varients of "we can just give him EJ's money" have often been used as a reason to not worry about how MacK's next contract will impact our cap-outlook in the future.

Does he really make enough money for that to matter?

He makes $6.0 million per season. Assuming the Avalanche were able to replace his services with a UFA defenseman making half of that, that leaves an extra $3.0 million for Sakic to play with. I seriously doubt that amount of money will stop the Avalanche from getting a key player in the future.