Erie Otters 2019-20 Season Thread

[NOA]

Piggy back to my Fox comment ^

1g 2a, -5, 14 PIMs in his last 7 playoff games that year..

He was a great player that year but I don’t even put him on my all time Erie roster even hesitate putting him on a top players from the 4 year run roster.

In terms of value to what happened during that historic 4 years, this is the order:

1a - McDavid
1b - Knoblauch
2 - Strome
3 - Debrincat
4 - Connor Brown

Fox isn’t even in the top 5 for me. And Donnay wouldn’t even be a consideration for top 10 defenders during that era

 

[rangersblues]

Oh please.. stop with the Fox crap. He lit up the lamp in 2013-14 but was the biggest fraud in the playoffs that year. Donnay was an average defender. They didn’t help Erie launch crap. That was McDavid giving the city a chance and as a result Knoblauch signing. Which btw, I highly doubt McDavid regrets. The city was great to him and the fans were insane. Strome as well, who still talks about his love for Erie. McDavid started it but Knoblauch the real reason for sustainability. Plus, Erie sucked for about 10 years prior. They had a million assets (which bassin burned in 2 years on stupid trades). So with or without Fox/Donnay, they would have traded for someone else and still have been damn good during the McDavid era. Fox was only around for year 1. He was long gone by the time the best team arrived (2016-17)

I'm not sure where I (or anyone else) said McDavid or Strome regretted playing in Erie. In fact I would guess McDavid's only regret was he didn't bring the city a championship.

I'll just disagree about Fox. Yes you could have traded for someone else. But the whole idea is you didn't have to because you traded an asset (Mckegg) who wasn't going to be of use anymore. That left you more picks to use later, of which you used almost every single one.

 

[rangersblues]

Piggy back to my Fox comment ^

1g 2a, -5, 14 PIMs in his last 7 playoff games that year..

He was a great player that year but I don’t even put him on my all time Erie roster even hesitate putting him on a top players from the 4 year run roster.

In terms of value to what happened during that historic 4 years, this is the order:

1a - McDavid
1b - Knoblauch
2 - Strome
3 - Debrincat
4 - Connor Brown

Fox isn’t even in the top 5 for me. And Donnay wouldn’t even be a consideration for top 10 defenders during that era

Wow! Where did I say Fox was an all time great. I only said he "helped launch a 4 year run" which he did with a fine year. Donnay was a useful player. If you can't admit trading Mckegg for Fox and Donnay was a trade that worked......

 

[7D442]

Rangerblues : I am specifically referring to recent trades the last couple of years Brown has made such as the Lodnia trade and Singer acquisition (who we let go today)...Then also the Golden trade which has also been waaaay overrated with an additional 3rd round conditional pick being used this year .. Now let’s talk Sopa - prob the best of all players I mentioned and I’m looking forward to seeing him play .. However a 2nd 3rd And 5 th for a half year only rental ?? Hardly worth it ..Those 2nd 3rd and 5 th round pics in the future could have been Players here for 4 years of use ..THAT is my point ..That’s a lot of pics being used in part to compensate for Hartsburg’s coaching woes ..

As far as forgetting about Fox and Donnay I don’t remember or care what they cost they were great players - Fox being one of my favorite players .. Had some off ice issues - loved to fight and get the crowd riled up ..and he had a sensational year his last year here but completely and I mean completely crapped out in the playoffs -as NOA mentioned

 

[7D442]

Now that we’re talking about it - was Donnay and Fox a straight up trade for McKegg ??

 

[NOA]

Wow! Where did I say Fox was an all time great. I only said he "helped launch a 4 year run" which he did with a fine year. Donnay was a useful player. If you can't admit trading Mckegg for Fox and Donnay was a trade that worked......

Sorry for the rant but I have heard many (mostly Erie) fans praise Fox over the years. He was great that one year but the talent around him was insane and he benefited from terrific setups. I never was a huge Fox fan. He was probably the 3/4 best forward on that team but just happened to have the most stats. Looking back on it, I don’t even know how when you consider McDavid, Brown, Burakovsky

 

[NOA]

Now that we’re talking about it - was Donnay and Fox a straight up trade for McKegg ??

No.

looks like McKegg, Cook, Teichmann

for two seconds and Fox/Donnay
Leafs prospect Greg McKegg traded to London Knights from Erie Otters

Fox was a PPG player who had 2.5 years left. Donnay a tall, stiff guy with 3.5 years left. So overall, it was a pretty fair deal for both sides. Teichmann stunk and I loved Brett Cook as a player but was just a tough, old school OA.

Worked out well for both teams. But that was when Bassin was the owner and majority GM. He made that call

 

[EON]

I thought Brown had a terrific year in 2016-17. Did great to get what the team got and needed, especially with limited assets. Built a Mem Cup level team.

The biggest busts for Brown have been the Lodnia trade and Golden. Golden is not very good and with limited assets, they could have retained a valuable 3rd round pick just to move on from him at start of year. They idiotically kept him. Lodnia trade I will give him a half a pass on for reasons already stated

But if we look back to 2015-16, that was a wasted year. The team was good enough to do what they did but was not good enough to waste limited assets on needed pieces to put them over the top. As a result, they held onto players like Dermott. Trading him and having 3/4 extra picks would have meant probably keeping Neumann (even eventually trading him). That was a waste

The biggest new development with Brown is wtf is he doing in the import draft and with our (limited) early round picks??? Cajka - only got 1 year out of, not even a elite prospect anyways. Khusnutdinov- no show. Alexander - college. Saganiuk - USNDT

That’s the real issue for me. It’s not the trading as much as it is that the team isn’t hitting on or getting these top players they need to get to that next step. The depth has been built up great due to superior drafting. Yetman, Golod, Gillard, Cohen, DAmato, Morton, Campbell, Murphy - etc

I mean seriously, they are far better than 90% of the league at 5-15th round drafting. Very good at it. The problem is those can’t possibly be “elite” guys. Most teams, like OSH and PBO, can’t even draft many depth players in those rounds. Erie at least is able to get OHL quality depth. And sometimes hit big (like Golod/Yetman) on legit, top 6 talent. But it’s still never going to be the T Raddyshs or Burakovskys of the world. You need higher (1-3rd round) picks for those players.

Right now, they either don’t have those picks because Brown trades them away or they end up wasting them on no shows (which is more concerning when they have few of those picks to begin with)

Bottom line: what is this team missing (besides the coach)?? Top talent. The depth is there and built up very well. Heck, with better coaching they would probably be a 35 win team (pretty good for the lack of 2-4th round picks and no imports on our roster)

they need to start signing these top guys though. Or else it’s just going to be the same up and down crap. Never good enough to go all in but never crappy enough to sell out. Never having good enough players to sell for needed high assets and never enough high assets to buy the top players

They are going to need to figure it out soon. Or they will be stuck in purgatory for a long while

I disagree regarding 2015-16, but otherwise great post, lot of good points in there and I very much agree with your overall message.

Brown has done a great job overall and deserves credit and some patience. We fans were spoiled and lucky, with four straight seasons as title contenders, culminating in a championship. Erie is the only team in CHL history to have 4 straight 50 win seasons, that's a pretty remarkable achievement considering the talent they turned over. We knew the rebuild was going to be painful. It's just not being managed as well as it could have.

The Lodnia situation was botched, the Golden trade was bad (and the decision to keep him was even worse). If these situations were handled properly, this team probably has a few extra 3rds sitting in the draft cupboard.

And yes, like you said, the depth drafting has been terrific. This team, as constructed right now, has very good forward depth. Just lacking the high end pieces, which are the culmination of whiffing on the imports and failing to sway high-end guys.

If this team wants to get back on top, they have to hit on their high picks and bring in elite talent to drive the bus. I have no concerns they'll do a good job with mid/late round picks to fill in depth, but if you're going to be short on high draft picks, you have to make them count.

 

[NOA]

I disagree regarding 2015-16, but otherwise great post, lot of good points in there and I very much agree with your overall message.

Brown has done a great job overall and deserves credit and some patience. We fans were spoiled and lucky, with four straight seasons as title contenders, culminating in a championship. Erie is the only team in CHL history to have 4 straight 50 win seasons, that's a pretty remarkable achievement considering the talent they turned over. We knew the rebuild was going to be painful. It's just not being managed as well as it could have.

The Lodnia situation was botched, the Golden trade was bad (and the decision to keep him was even worse). If these situations were handled properly, this team probably has a few extra 3rds sitting in the draft cupboard.

And yes, like you said, the depth drafting has been terrific. This team, as constructed right now, has very good forward depth. Just lacking the high end pieces, which are the culmination of whiffing on the imports and failing to sway high-end guys.

If this team wants to get back on top, they have to hit on their high picks and bring in elite talent to drive the bus. I have no concerns they'll do a good job with mid/late round picks to fill in depth, but if you're going to be short on high draft picks, you have to make them count.

I have become very frustrated the last 2-3 months of the direction of this team. I threw 2015-16 in there as part of that frustration. Hindsight is easy to do but at the time, would have been difficult to sell anybody when they were a top 3 team in the entire CHL. I don’t really hold that against him as much as my own personal “what if”

The Sopa trade sparked my confusion and frustration from Brown and this team. Brown appears to be doubling down on his comments from a year or 2 ago when he said that 2nd/3rd rounders aren’t that important to them.
Again though, they are extremely valued by the rest of the league. So as an organization you have to value them, if nothing else as importance for trade currency.

This rest of the season and offseason will pretty much be the point of no return for me. I’m seriously ready to bail on this team if I get the same crap for 3/4 years.
Given what the team gave up for Sopa, they better get into the playoffs as a 6/7 seed and make a little noise. Unless it’s a complete turnaround, Hartsburg and the coaching staff need to be let go this offseason. And for once Dave Brown better use his 2nd round pick this year on an actual player that is all in on the OHL, not some high risk college kid who won’t come. They then NEED to get Khustnutdinov here and draft another import that has some upside. Every other team in the OHL seems to draft imports that they have a pre draft deal with. Why can’t Erie figure that out? No excuse to not have 2 imports on the roster next year.

let’s see if Dave Brown wakes up a bit. This is a critical stage in the organization and if they don’t get the wheels tightened, they will eventually fall off and Erie will be back to the mid 2000s era. Which would be such an embarrassing fall and harder for fans to accept

 

[OttersFan]

Yet another anticlimatic trade deadline for Erie. Yes we got Sopa, but we also didn't get any picks and couldn't find a trade for Singer or get a cheap OA that's decent.

If we don't make it into the playoffs as a 6/7 seed this year, I would consider it another bust when it comes to trading. We didn't get any picks that would be helpful for us, but we really didn't give up anything either.

We should have traded Henry while his value is higher now than when he becomes an OA.

 

[OttersFan]

Lodnia is now captain of the Ice Dogs. Kid is full of himself and i'm glad he's not with our team anymore.

 

[EON]

Yet another anticlimatic trade deadline for Erie. Yes we got Sopa, but we also didn't get any picks and couldn't find a trade for Singer or get a cheap OA that's decent.

If we don't make it into the playoffs as a 6/7 seed this year, I would consider it another bust when it comes to trading. We didn't get any picks that would be helpful for us, but we really didn't give up anything either.

We should have traded Henry while his value is higher now than when he becomes an OA.

I agree I think they should have traded Henry now, as this may push Morton out of the lineup when he has been playing well lately and has developed quite a lot over the course of the season. They probably could have got at least a 3rd for him considering what Kitchener paid for Wale from SSM.

Must be a sign that Gillard is completely done for the season and they don't want to go with 7 dmen, with Kyrou being #7. This team has had pretty awful injury luck.

 

[Mata]

If this is how the lines shake up, I have to agree Lockhart deserves to be moved up. Love MacDougall, but he has been injured for 5 months?

 

[NOA]

If this is how the lines shake up, I have to agree Lockhart deserves to be moved up. Love MacDougall, but he has been injured for 5 months?

This was without Sopa at practice so plenty of line shuffling could and will occur when he’s added

 

[Mata]

What was up with PP2 tonight?

They played 2 defense instead of the normal 4. Good high energy game though. Sopa didn't disappoint. Anxious to see what happens against the better teams now.

 

[EON]

Yeah seems odd to me that they're using 2 D on PP #2. I'd only use Hunter. But I don't like how much they try and give the units even time, I'd give PP #1 almost all of the time, Yetman/Golod/Fowler/Sopa (or Swankler)/Drysdale. Give your best offensive weapons as much time to score in high danger opportunities as you can.

Decent game overall though, outplayed Niagara heavily, which is to be expected with how much they sold off. Their goalie played pretty well and kept them in the game. Absolute must win tomorrow against Sarnia.

 

[Mata]

Yeah seems odd to me that they're using 2 D on PP #2. I'd only use Hunter. But I don't like how much they try and give the units even time, I'd give PP #1 almost all of the time, Yetman/Golod/Fowler/Sopa (or Swankler)/Drysdale. Give your best offensive weapons as much time to score in high danger opportunities as you can.

Decent game overall though, outplayed Niagara heavily, which is to be expected with how much they sold off. Their goalie played pretty well and kept them in the game. Absolute must win tomorrow against Sarnia.

If Drysdale is fresh, he usually runs PP1 for about 1 minute. PP2 used to be Hunter, which I agree he should probably be, but then when Golden returned he ran it. This was the first time I recall seeing PP2 running a normal 5 though with a minute left.

 

[NOA]

If Drysdale is fresh, he usually runs PP1 for about 1 minute. PP2 used to be Hunter, which I agree he should probably be, but then when Golden returned he ran it. This was the first time I recall seeing PP2 running a normal 5 though with a minute left.

I agree with EON, they should have their top unit out for 90 seconds or so. Same with Drysdale. They need to get some more goals in those situations. So they should stack their top unit and run with it as long as they can

 

[OttersFan]

Goal on the door step for Swankler... what have I been saying all year!!

 

[EON]

They really need to get the PP sorted out, PK has been so much better this season though which they deserve credit for fixing.

Another solid game today, 6-2 over Sarnia. Erie finally shows up on home ice and gets the job done against two bottom tier clubs. Next weekend is enormous, 3 in 3 @ SAR, @ WSR, and @ LDN. If they can come away with 4 points it would be a big boost imo.

 

[Mata]

They really need to get the PP sorted out, PK has been so much better this season though which they deserve credit for fixing.

Another solid game today, 6-2 over Sarnia. Erie finally shows up on home ice and gets the job done against two bottom tier clubs. Next weekend is enormous, 3 in 3 @ SAR, @ WSR, and @ LDN. If they can come away with 4 points it would be a big boost imo.

I would agree. Their power play is 1 dimensional and is in desperate need of an overhaul. At this point I think it is safe to say they can pass the puck around.

They took care of business and it mattered. The major concern I have, as it relates to the power play is offensive efficiency. Our shots are there, we were severely lacking in goals in both games until the end while our opponents kept it close 2/3 of the game with half as many shots.

 

[three dog night]

Lodnia is now captain of the Ice Dogs. Kid is full of himself and i'm glad he's not with our team anymore.

Please try again

 

[OttersFan]

Please try again

Nope. Ask most Erie fans and they would tell you the same.

He screwed Erie over by only wanting to go to one of two teams and then getting zero return for him. He demanded a trade since he wanted to win after Erie developed him as a player. He didn't want to play here he just wanted a ring and then off to another winning team. I'm competitive and understand wanting to win but you can't always win. Once he got his win, he was done playing here. It's no surprise he's still in the OHL. He always kept the puck for himself and never passed. He was a "me first" player here.

He wouldn't even live with a billet family here which says a lot.

I've become more of a fan of Niagara too. We've visited multiple times and it's always a wonderful time. It's not the team, it's the "me first" mindset that I am not a fan of.

 

[NOA]

Nope. Ask most Erie fans and they would tell you the same.

He screwed Erie over by only wanting to go to one of two teams and then getting zero return for him. He demanded a trade since he wanted to win after Erie developed him as a player. He didn't want to play here he just wanted a ring and then off to another winning team. I'm competitive and understand wanting to win but you can't always win. Once he got his win, he was done playing here. It's no surprise he's still in the OHL. He always kept the puck for himself and never passed. He was a "me first" player here.

He wouldn't even live with a billet family here which says a lot.

I've become more of a fan of Niagara too. We've visited multiple times and it's always a wonderful time. It's not the team, it's the "me first" mindset that I am not a fan of.

It’s one thing to have preferred destinations. Even Raddysh had them prior to his trade to SSM. Top level players have earned that right. Though it is sad when many abuse it

Lodnia abused it by dictating exactly when he would be traded. Erie made their title run in 2016-17. He then played here in 2017-18 and my understand was that there was debate that year about trading him. Erie considered or possibly wanted to move him that year. They needed the assets and at that point were full rebuild after moving Raddysh/Sambrook/Fergus and Bryne. Yet Lodnia said no to a trade. So Erie had to keep him all year and lose out on more assets as he was a younger player coming off his pro draft.
He then demanded a trade right before the 2018-19 season kicked off. Again, my understanding is that he wouldn’t even travel to Erie or play here. It was be traded or sit home. And oh by the way, only to 2 teams. Which is a bit ridiculous because at that stage there could have been 4/5 options he could have given Erie. Or if he was so concerned with making another title run, fine.. wait 2/3 months while playing in Erie to see who the “top” teams are going to be. Instead, he basically let Niagara know that market was only them at that stage, thus leaving Erie to either accept a bag of pucks or let their player sit at home and be disgruntled in the media

He handled himself selfishly with an organization that got him his only real success in the league

As for players not wanting to play for “losers”.. I understand but it’s super childish. Yes many players are technically still children or young adults. But this is sports. Sports are supposed to teach you how to be a graceful winner and not a sore loser. If you are a good player, you will help losing teams become better. That’s how it is in the pros, you can’t just dictate where you go right away. Max Domi demanded his way to London. Has never played an NHL playoff game. Eventually you have play on some rebuilding teams..

 

[Otto]

Curious about the attendance at Saturday's game. OHL site lists it as 6,276 .. which would be amazing if true. OHL Arena Guide lists capacity as 5,500

Can anyone provide any insight?

Edit: This article backs up the attendance # .. WOW!! Great job!! Was this because of Hockey Fights Cancer night or was there something else going on?? Sopa Shines In Otters Debut As Erie Defeats Niagara 4-2 On Cancer Awareness Night – Erie Otters