Erie Otters 2018-19 Season Thread (Part 2)

[NOA]

Nelli going to post here the scoop on Golden here shortly-I think he was a top 4 D for the knights - ??? but can’t confirm

Intrigued by Browns decision on this one ..

He’s definitely not in their top 4.. they were playing him on the 3rd pairing.

Honestly I don’t really like this trade at this very moment
I’m not worried about the 4th round pick, as to me those aren’t super difficult to replace. Especially one in 2020 when Erie has such a young roster and 4 second round picks the next 2 drafts (meaning a 4th rounder in 2020 isn’t likely to be a factor to make the roster).

But if Golden returns next year I hate giving up a 3rd for him. And he will return because he’s not that special. It’s as far in the future as one can go but still it’s a 3rd and I don’t think he’s worth it. Drysdale/Martin/Duff are all guys I want more of next year. Henry/Kischnick/Gillard/Beamish are still around and 2001 - 2002 guys could still be a factor for next years roster but instead we will have 2 OAs playing on the backend. So to me, the only way I’ll like this trade is if Golden plays solid and adds veteran leadership/presence and also this speaks to Dave understanding my thought process which is “we simply have to be a .500 or better team next year and we will be” so he’s willing to make these moves to get older/better for next year

 

[GangGreen]

He’s a great skater and loves joining the rush. Not much there offensively though.
He might breakthrough as an overager with lots of ice time.

 

[NOA]

He’s a great skater and loves joining the rush. Not much there offensively though.
He might breakthrough as an overager with lots of ice time.

Sounds like a pretty blah trade to me. Some 3rd pairing guy to eat up ice time over young guys who need to develop? Or some guy we expect to be an OA and in our top 4 next year? I’m not a fan of it for a 3rd round.

 

[EON]

Yeah I think it's a fine move for this season to add a veteran presence, especially if Beamish is out long-term. I hope he isn't on the roster next season though unless he really breaks through here and pushes someone else out.

Looking at next season, let's say Erie signs one of Alexander/Swankler, their returning roster looks like:

Fowler-Alexander/Swankler-Yetman
Sproule-Cajka-Golod
MacDougall-Gritz-Singer(OA)
Sellan-D'Amato-Hoffmann
Mack/Cohen

Martin(OA)-Drysdale
Duff-Henry
Beamish/Golden(OA)-Kischnick
Gillard

Murphy
Campbell?

This doesn't include anyone else from the 2018 draft breaking through, a likely top 4 2019 pick, the U18 draft, and adding a 2nd import. And maybe Erie gets really lucky and lands both of Swankler/Alexander.

It would be foolish to have Golden on this roster as an OA and burn a 3rd in 2024. That 3rd is potential trade ammo for the next time Erie goes for it.

 

[NOA]

It would be foolish to have Golden on this roster as an OA and burn a 3rd in 2024. That 3rd is potential trade ammo for the next time Erie goes for it.

Which is why I don’t like the trade because I’ll assume that we acquired him with next year in mind as well

Maybe I’m wrong. Maybe with the condition being that he plays 1 game his OA year, maybe Brown is basically just seeing what the hell happens.

Imo Martin/Duff/Drysdale will all be above him next year. And I like what Henry brings to the team. Now you add Gillard, Kischnick, and other draft picks or unknowns and why the heck would we give up a 3rd for a guy in Golden who would just be a 4/5 guy even if he somehow steps up and turns the corner in Erie

It’s a wait and see I guess but if Brown secretly plans on having him be the odd man out next year on the backend and sort of knows this is just a 0.5 year rental then it’s a great trade.
My worry is that we rarely make those type of moves so I don’t just expect us to release this guy in August/September. Even though, again, I think he’s already at best 4/5 on the backend next year and could easily slip to 6/7 if other guys develop. We have the bodies back there both on the current roster and in the system so it’s puzzling

 

[EON]

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see, I trust Brown at this point. Aside from the Lodnia deal (where his hands were pretty much tied) he's done well in trades and this team has done a fairly good job drafting. This coming offseason will be huge. They could be a mediocre 5th-7th in the west next season, or they could potentially be a top 4 team if things go right (Alexander/Swankler reporting, hitting on the 2019 likely top 4 pick [unless Erie catches Kitchener/Windsor], hitting on the import pick, figuring out goaltending).

Also, minor move came in late. Erie and Windsor swapped prospects, Erie sent G Jackson Bernard for F Reid Russett. Bernard looked good after getting drafted but his numbers have tanked in Junior B this season. I doubt Russett ever plays for the team but it's some depth I suppose.

 

[ZinErie]

Sounds like a pretty blah trade to me. Some 3rd pairing guy to eat up ice time over young guys who need to develop? Or some guy we expect to be an OA and in our top 4 next year? I’m not a fan of it for a 3rd round.

He was a 3rd pairing guy in London, the #1 team in the OHL in goals against. Erie is 17th. He'll play top 4 minutes for the Otters. He was a 5th round pick. Martin, Duff, Henry and Beamish all went undrafted.

 

[EON]

He was a 3rd pairing guy in London, the #1 team in the OHL in goals against. Erie is 17th. He'll play top 4 minutes for the Otters. He was a 5th round pick. Martin, Duff, Henry and Beamish all went undrafted.

Who is he playing top 4 minutes over (Drysdale, Martin, Duff, Henry).

Kischnick/Gillard will probably rotate as the 6/7 guys.

 

[NOA]

Who is he playing top 4 minutes over (Drysdale, Martin, Duff, Henry).

Kischnick/Gillard will probably rotate as the 6/7 guys.

That’s my point ^^

If Beamish is out for most of or all of the rest of the season, I don’t mind the move. Even if Golden is just a 4/5 guy. No issues

My issue is next season. He would be a wasted OA because we have 4 guys who are currently our guys and are younger/better

And with Gillard/Kischnick/Beamish as 5,6,7 guys next year and certainly 1 or all 3 expected to improve, I don’t see where he fits. Let’s not even forget that 2018 draft picks could suprise and be ready for the OHL as a 6/7 guy. So where does he fit?

This year it appears as a 4/5 guy with Beamish out. Okay that’s good. But next year? He doesn’t fit. We have a logjam now. If brown intends on him being gone before next season (unless we get lucky and he dramatically improves) then this is a good trade. If not it’s weird. I will give patience with brown though and wait and see

 

[ZinErie]

Who is he playing top 4 minutes over (Drysdale, Martin, Duff, Henry).

Kischnick/Gillard will probably rotate as the 6/7 guys.

Henry, IMO.

 

[EON]

I have to admit Golden looked pretty good tonight. He's an incredible skater. He could definitely be a legit top 4 dman if his puck skills and game sense improve a bit. He could potentially push Martin out next season, but still not sure it would be worth that 3rd. We'll see if he improves as the season goes on and into camp next season.

MacDougall looked decent, he's a good skater. Came very close to scoring his first goal in the 1st.

Murphy with a solid game tonight. Should put Ceci in tomorrow, Murphy has played what feels like about 20 games in a row.

Cajka also played very well. I'll be shocked if he isn't drafted in June. Top line C potential next season.

It's also fun to be scoreboard watching again. I would like to see this team make the playoffs, even if it would hurt their draft spot a bit and they'd likely lose in 4 or 5 games.

 

[7D442]

Sounded like that was a great game tonight ..Nice win and Cajka w the winner in OT..

Looking forward to seeing Golden tmrw.. What was our D pairings and where was Golden

 

[EON]

Sounded like that was a great game tonight ..Nice win and Cajka w the winner in OT..

Looking forward to seeing Golden tmrw.. What was our D pairings and where was Golden

Henry-Drysdale
Duff-Golden
Martin-Kischnick

 

[ZinErie]

Sounded like that was a great game tonight ..Nice win and Cajka w the winner in OT..

Looking forward to seeing Golden tmrw.. What was our D pairings and where was Golden

Drysdale/Henry, Duff/Golden, Martin/Kischnick

 

[LDN]

Drysdale/Henry, Duff/Golden, Martin/Kischnick

Smart each pairing has a big guy and a smaller skating d man

 

[NOA]

Definitely smart to have Duff with Golden. Martin/Duff are the best pure defenders we got but Martin is probably our most consistent so I like him with the rookie Drysdale

Good pairings and I’m okay and hopeful that’s what they try to stick with. Gillard of course would swap in for Kischnick every 2-3 games

Overall a good game. This team should be able to compete for that last playoff spot. They aren’t much off what they were in the first half. Yes we lose Mak but our defense and goaltending could be a bit more consistent with the additions. Also MacDougall helps stabilize the forward depth and Fowler might be back by early February which would be a huge boost

I like the core team we are building. Like you have said EON, if we smartly address the goalie spot, import and top OHL pick, and IF (biggest ?) we sign just 1 of the college guys in our system.. this team truly could compete for a 4-5 seed next year. I can easily see it happening. There are things Dave needs to tweak and make happen but we have the assets and players in the system who could make most of it happen. Plus we have a current roster with 12 forwards and 6 defenders who are 2000-2002 age. So most of those guys will improve by next year. I’m super curious to see how strong we finish the year and then how the offseason goes.
Still curious about Hartsburg but if we push into the playoffs, I’ll definitely be willing to pause on my opinions of him

 

[Animal House]

He was a 3rd pairing guy in London, the #1 team in the OHL in goals against. Erie is 17th. He'll play top 4 minutes for the Otters. He was a 5th round pick. Martin, Duff, Henry and Beamish all went undrafted.

All you have to do is look at London's defense core. Bouchard, WJC and NHL 1st rd. pick. Boqvist, WJC and NHL 1st rd. pick. Regula, NHL 3rd. pick. J. Keane, NHL 3rd. pick (London traded for him before deadline). I would venture to say that only Drysdale would be able to crack that line up and that is doubtful. Not sure what plans Brown/Hartsburg have for Golden, but competition is good for any team. Obvious that he can skate and has no problem jumping into the rush and with Beamish out, the need for another adept puck handler in the backend is/was needed IMO. I am sure we have all noticed that when Drysdale leads the rush, it is awesome. Fast and great edges. And he gets back on defense when he does join the rush. I am optimistic that Golden can do the same things, time will tell. Also, if he turns the corner here, what kind of price will he bring back to the Otters come the trade season next year?

 

[LDN]

I think you'll like Golden...he was playing his best hockey before he left...all he has to do is keep it simple and when we knows he can jump into the rush...I was hoping we would keep him as he would have been a good #6 D on our squad this year....I think with the playing time and the right partner he will be successful in Erie

 

[NOA]

Don’t look at London’s defense.. you are looking at the one and only team who does things like no other junior team can because of their deep pockets

Because here is the some of the reality with their defensive core:

1st round OHL pick
2nd round Import pick
Free agent
Trade
Trade

Erie has Drysdale as a top end first rounder. What if we went and added a top end Import defender this year in the draft? Then went and traded for another top guy?

Reality is that London’s is only like that on D because they bought those players and then got a lucky 1 year out of Boqvist

Erie in 2017 had a good defense. It wasn’t overly flashy but it was definitely top 3-4 that year in the league

Sambrook (10th round OHL, 5th rd NHL)
Cernak (Import pick, 2nd rd nhl)
Raddysh (5th round OHL)
Fergus (8th round OHL)
Headrick (14th round OHL)
Byrne (4th round OHL)

Erie had 2 nhl drafted players.. 5th round and 2nd round. Yet still were top tier

Sorry, I don’t buy needing superstars on the back end. Sure you need 1/2 guys with great skills but the others just need to be veterans and solid at what they do.
If you want nhl drafted superstars, get them on offense because that to me is more important in the OHL.

 

[EON]

Erie wins again! 3-2 in regulation over Owen Sound.

Strong 3rd period from the Otters to take it. The winning goal was pretty weak but still they'll take it. That's a 4 game winning streak tomorrow. Very tough game in Oshawa tomorrow though at the end of a 3 in 3.

 

[Millpond]

Erie wins again! 3-2 in regulation over Owen Sound.

Strong 3rd period from the Otters to take it. The winning goal was pretty weak but still they'll take it. That's a 4 game winning streak tomorrow. Very tough game in Oshawa tomorrow though at the end of a 3 in 3.

Did I see correctly that the 3rd goal went in off Bourque skate as he slid by the net ?

 

[EON]

Did I see correctly that the 3rd goal went in off Bourque skate as he slid by the net ?

I think it went off him then off of Guzda but I didn't get a very clear look at it on the livestream.

 

[buzzworthy]

Two big wins over a feisty OS team. The boys played very hard, and pretty much shut down OS at every turn. Considering how young we are, it showed how good this club will be in 2 years. What is very encouraging to me is how much depth we have. We can roll 4 lines, and not have to worry about getting scored upon. Both games were entertaining. Two fights in two nights along with 4,700 on Friday and over 5,000 last night seemed to energize the boys. It reminded me of 2 years ago when we won the championship. The new guys looked pretty good too. Murphy did pretty well to boot.

 

[Animal House]

Don’t look at London’s defense.. you are looking at the one and only team who does things like no other junior team can because of their deep pockets

Because here is the some of the reality with their defensive core:

1st round OHL pick
2nd round Import pick
Free agent
Trade
Trade

Erie has Drysdale as a top end first rounder. What if we went and added a top end Import defender this year in the draft? Then went and traded for another top guy?

Reality is that London’s is only like that on D because they bought those players and then got a lucky 1 year out of Boqvist

Erie in 2017 had a good defense. It wasn’t overly flashy but it was definitely top 3-4 that year in the league

Sambrook (10th round OHL, 5th rd NHL)
Cernak (Import pick, 2nd rd nhl)
Raddysh (5th round OHL)
Fergus (8th round OHL)
Headrick (14th round OHL)
Byrne (4th round OHL)

Erie had 2 nhl drafted players.. 5th round and 2nd round. Yet still were top tier

Sorry, I don’t buy needing superstars on the back end. Sure you need 1/2 guys with great skills but the others just need to be veterans and solid at what they do.
If you want nhl drafted superstars, get them on offense because that to me is more important in the OHL.

How London acquired their defensive core, drafted, traded for, FA or bought is irrelevant in regards to Golden. He was not being used in a top 4 role there. He has an opportunity in Erie to compete for a top 4 role. London has this aura around them that everything they touch is gold. Kids who get traded from London usually have a high price tag and other teams seem to over value that. All you have to do is look at the Rowe trade to Flint. I have faith in Brown that he won't get fleeced, especially by London. But Golden is no sure thing. I wish Erie would have traded a rd. 6 pick for Popov (OS did) instead. I have no contacts or knowledge of how and why the Otters' draft/trade and what kind of coach Hartsburg is. I am hoping that we have turned the corner and look forward to the rest of the season, including the playoffs.

 

[NOA]

How London acquired their defensive core, drafted, traded for, FA or bought is irrelevant in regards to Golden. He was not being used in a top 4 role there. He has an opportunity in Erie to compete for a top 4 role. London has this aura around them that everything they touch is gold. Kids who get traded from London usually have a high price tag and other teams seem to over value that. All you have to do is look at the Rowe trade to Flint. I have faith in Brown that he won't get fleeced, especially by London. But Golden is no sure thing. I wish Erie would have traded a rd. 6 pick for Popov (OS did) instead. I have no contacts or knowledge of how and why the Otters' draft/trade and what kind of coach Hartsburg is. I am hoping that we have turned the corner and look forward to the rest of the season, including the playoffs.

I definitely agree - teams tend to overvalue London’s throw away talent instead of recognizing that in most cases they are dumping off their spare parts and you should get it for cheaper or wait for them to release the guy

Goldens is a bit different in the sense that he has elite skating and look, he was a 5th round nhl pick.
I don’t love the trade. But golden has looked solid in 2 games so far.

And here is the reality - we (so far) have only traded a 4th round pick for Golden. IF he is good and is a clear top 4 next year, then we trade an additional 3rd. If not I have faith that brown will not keep him and will retain our 3rd. If not, the 3rd is in 2024 and Golden will be a clear top 4 vet player on a team that next year could be sneaky good and be a 4-5 seed