Fil Larkmanthanasiou
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2018
- 1,115
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I think it would be better for him to play in all situations (PK, PP, ES, EN) and adapt to the NA game at a little easier level.
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Injury Report: Ericsson to miss rest of preseason... start of season in doubt
- Thread starter lhsgolf19
- Start date
Mlotek
Registered User
For what f***ing reason?
Buying his contract out will spread the cap hit over multiple years.
Its not like Detroit needs the cap space this season.
Literally no reason to do so.
ManwithNoIdentity
Registered User
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Our LTIR Overfloweth. Z 6.083, Franzen 3.95, we're already over the 10% of cap allowed, so we'll be eating E's 4.25 + 2.1 that we're already eating=$6.35
$6.35M in dead cap would buy a really nice player, but in Z's case it had to be done to avoid recapture.
Gniwder
Registered User
The LTIR cap doesn't matter because the team isn't close to the salary cap, and Stevie isn't adding any high price players. LTIR just means insurance pays his salary, instead of Chris Ilitch. Also frees up a roster spot for Hicketts or whoever.
It's NOT a salary cap move.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
LTIR status has nothing to do with insurance status. Horton was famously traded to the Leafs to be stashed on their LTIR for Clarkson because Horton's contract wasn't insured. It depends on how the teams themselves insure contracts. I am not sure which guys are in big trouble this way currently but this was actually a problem for Lindros at the end of his career, he had teams that knew they couldn't get insurance for his contract towards the end. I would be surprised if Ericsson's deal isn't insured, some teams also insure based on certain values throughout their team structure as this can be quite complex, I have seen it broken down a few times over on the business board.
I am not sure how much Ericsson will play this year, I don't think the team would be labeling it the way they are currently if they were planning on burying him at this point. But ultimately if the younger guys run with a chance he shouldn't draw back in unless there is an injury. We will have to see how it plays out. Agree with the people saying there is no point in buying him out, Big E's time in the NHL is ending soon enough. I don't wish the guy ill will, it would be nice if his hip and the rest of his body could hold up for one last decent run, I don't think it is in the cards but I honestly hope that for him as unlikely as that seems.
You can only have 2 players on it which we do. We cannot put another player on ltir until one of the two drops off.
Which obviously will be Z after this year. But until then are ltir is full.
Ghost of Ethan Hunt
The Official Ghost of Space Ghosts Monkey
Right, that's exactly what I said. Franzen drops off after this year, Z after next season. The $6.35 in dead cap is referring to the overage.
Mlotek
Registered User
Where is this 2 player limit on LTIR coming from?
Back in 2016-17 Detroit had 2 guys permanantly on LTIR and couple guys who were also added.
Franzen/Vitale missed the entire season on LTIR.
Howard, Ericsson, and Jurco were also on LTIR that season during shorter portions.
Capfriendly also currently has 4 guys on LTIR for Toronto.
Gniwder
Registered User
If the team has insurance on Ericsson, the insurance company isn't going to pay if he's on the active roster, duh.
Not sure why you're even mentioning Lindros, Ericsson's injury wasn't known when he signed the contract.
Stop making up crap guys, the Sens have $15M+ and 3 players on LTIR. Go look it up on Capfriendly.
I don't care to read the CBA, but the LTIR clause is Article 50.10-50.10. If you;ve got the time to read it, then you can tell me what the limits are. Don't pull numbers from your butt.
Unless Ericsson is going to be out for at least 10 games and 24 days, the wings have no reason to put Ericsson on LTIR. Also, other than the cap relief function of the LTIR, there's no real functional difference between IR and LTIR other than IR claims can be applied retroactively.
For example, say a player is hurt Wednesday in practice but the team isn't sure if he'll be ready to go for a game on Friday. Friday shows up and he can't go, but they think he'll be ready by the following Thursday. They can retroactively start his 7 day IR clock back to Wednesday so he'll be able to come off the IR and play the following week. LTIR you can't backdate like that.
Insurance, if the team has it on a specific player, will kick in for either LTIR or IR. It's not a guarantee that every player is covered, though. And I'm just guessing that for something like a chronic condition, coverage might be especially difficult to get. This is what @The Zetterberg Era is getting at. The Wings might have insurance on Ericsson, but that doesn't mean he has to go on LTIR for it to kick in. The IR is fine, and the Wings will put a claim in on it.
For example, say a player is hurt Wednesday in practice but the team isn't sure if he'll be ready to go for a game on Friday. Friday shows up and he can't go, but they think he'll be ready by the following Thursday. They can retroactively start his 7 day IR clock back to Wednesday so he'll be able to come off the IR and play the following week. LTIR you can't backdate like that.
Insurance, if the team has it on a specific player, will kick in for either LTIR or IR. It's not a guarantee that every player is covered, though. And I'm just guessing that for something like a chronic condition, coverage might be especially difficult to get. This is what @The Zetterberg Era is getting at. The Wings might have insurance on Ericsson, but that doesn't mean he has to go on LTIR for it to kick in. The IR is fine, and the Wings will put a claim in on it.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
I mentioned it because your take on how teams insure contracts and those contracts relationship to LTIR was false. Of course the insurance companies don't pay active players, the simple IR would also be at the insurance companies discretion more than likely. But LTIR and insurance are separate things in terms of they don't always correlate. Lindros and Horton are two of the most recent documented instances was the reason they were listed in case you wanted to Google and read the differences instead of mocking...
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ShelbyZ
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2015
- 3,814
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While you're correct about there being no limit for LTIR, Ottawa's 3 "unofficially retired due to injury" players will likely just stay on regular IR and never hit LTIR this season. Cap Friendly shows them on IR as well.
If the Sens LTIR all 3 of those guys, they won't meet the salary floor.
Technically, I don't think that's true. For our purposes in trying to figure out roster moves and what not, we can look at it that way. But the "savings" from LTIR only start kicking in if a team begins to exceed the cap ceiling to replace those players.
If we put Franzen and Zetterberg on LTIR instead of the IR, we'd still have a $77m cap number this season. I've been looking around here for a bit, and I'm not sure teams can use LTIR at all until they need it to be cap compliant. Here's part of the CBA that applies to LTIR:
In the event that a Player on a Club becomes unfit to play (i.e., is injured, ill or disabled and unable to perform his duties as a hockey Player) such that the Club's physician believes, in his or her opinion, that the Player, owing to either an injury or an illness, will be unfit to play for at least (i) twenty-four (24) calendar days and (ii) ten (10) NHL Regular Season games, and such Club desires to replace such Player, the Club may add an additional Player or Players to its Active Roster, and the replacement Player Salary and Bonuses of such additional Player(s) may increase the Club's Averaged Club Salary to an amount up to and exceeding the Upper Limit
That bolded part seems to imply that LTIR can only be used if the team is going to go over the cap ceiling.
ManwithNoIdentity
Registered User
I completely forgot how soon those contracts expire and we’ll be able to move on with more cap space
ShelbyZ
Registered User
- Apr 8, 2015
- 3,814
- 2,577
Yea that's correct. Not sure how I goofed that one up. Probably need more coffee.
Honestly, I try to double check all of it on the web before I say something about it because I don't trust myself to keep it straight in my head. I miss the days of not having to worry about this stuff at all.
More coffee is never a bad plan, either.
Gniwder
Registered User
Sure IR would work, but if he's not going to play, why wouldn't the team put him on LTIR so they can have the roster space? Hicketts would love to get his NHL salary. Also, even if the team doesn't have insurance, BigE is a sunk cost. It costs the team the same whether he's in the press box, IR, or LTIR at that point. Roster space would be more important.
I still don't get your point and I don't care. It sounds like you're against putting BigE on LTIR for some unknown reason.
If an injury from last season hasn't healed yet, he's probably done for anyways.
Gniwder
Registered User
LTIR opens up a roster spot. There's no reason to have BigE on the roster if he has an injury from last season that hasn't healed yet. Not sure what "soft tissue" injury he has on his "lower body", but if he can't skate at 100% (which is still slow), then he shouldn't be playing.
There's really no point in aggravating an injury and possibly causing permanent injury when the team isn't going to compete this year anyways. He should LTIR for the sake of his own health, just like Kronwall retired.
I'm not saying it to be mean, my right knee pops out of place while sleeping couple of times a year. I had to retire from ski instructing. At some point you realize you need to be able to walk.
Mlotek
Registered User
The IR opens up the same roster spot and removes Ericsson from the active roster. Long Term Injured Reserve (LTIR) isn't just for someone missing a lot of time, but also for the cap relief. A team has to need the cap relief to put a guy on LTIR.
Take Zetterberg for example. He is not playing this year. No chance. But he's not going on LTIR because the Wings don't meet the cap space requirement. Zetterberg will be on the IR. The same with Franzen. The Wings still open up those roster spots. If insurance covers either of them, the Wings will still put a claim in to get that money back from the insurance company.
I don't think you're being mean, I just think there is a misunderstanding of what LTIR is. The last few seasons the Wings have had to use it because of their lack of cap space, and then we have people referring it to LTIRetirement (which is wrong). It can cloud what the Long Term Injured Reserve is.
