Player Discussion Eric Staal (The Frickin' All-Star)

[Wabit]

I think you're dead wrong. Staal's and Coyle's cap hits in themselves are worth something

Coyle is a 2/3rd line player on a nice cap hit. It has value, but would you give up a 1st for a $3.2m ~45p FWD as a rental+1? He's not a 60p+ career player that's just having a down season. His no-showing during the Playoffs don't help his value either.

Staal is a quality player. His cap works with most teams even, but which teams "need" him as more than a 3C? Tor, CGY, Pit, TB, Bos, and WSH off the top of my head don't. SJS and Tor already traded their 1sts. That is somewhere between 1/2 to 1/3 of the buyers where he'd be a luxury item as a scoring line 3C. MTL and Buf are the teams that really "need" him, but they are both on the fringe and will they even give away a 1st?

 

[2Pair]

Coyle is a 2/3rd line player on a nice cap hit. It has value, but would you give up a 1st for a $3.2m ~45p FWD as a rental+1? He's not a 60p+ career player that's just having a down season. His no-showing during the Playoffs don't help his value either.

Staal is a quality player. His cap works with most teams even, but which teams "need" him as more than a 3C? Tor, CGY, Pit, TB, Bos, and WSH off the top of my head don't. SJS and Tor already traded their 1sts. That is somewhere between 1/2 to 1/3 of the buyers where he'd be a luxury item as a scoring line 3C. MTL and Buf are the teams that really "need" him, but they are both on the fringe and will they even give away a 1st?

Would you trade a 1st for Chris Kreider? Pretty easy yes IMO and Coyle is better than Kreider.

Calgary, Winnipeg, Nashville, Vegas, Montreal, Buffalo, Islanders, Blue Jackets, Hurricanes, Avalanche, Ducks would all kill to have Staal in their top 6.

 

[Bazeek]

Coyle is a 2/3rd line player on a nice cap hit. It has value, but would you give up a 1st for a $3.2m ~45p FWD as a rental+1? He's not a 60p+ career player that's just having a down season. His no-showing during the Playoffs don't help his value either.

Staal is a quality player. His cap works with most teams even, but which teams "need" him as more than a 3C? Tor, CGY, Pit, TB, Bos, and WSH off the top of my head don't. SJS and Tor already traded their 1sts. That is somewhere between 1/2 to 1/3 of the buyers where he'd be a luxury item as a scoring line 3C. MTL and Buf are the teams that really "need" him, but they are both on the fringe and will they even give away a 1st?

If we didn't already have him on the team and had the hole at 2RW I'd happily give up our 1st for Coyle. But I also don't think he's a 45 pt player in the top-6 and think he can hold his own at 2C.

 

[Wabit]

Would you trade a 1st for Chris Kreider? Pretty easy yes IMO and Coyle is better than Kreider.

Calgary, Winnipeg, Nashville, Vegas, Montreal, Buffalo, Islanders, Blue Jackets, Hurricanes, Avalanche, Ducks would all kill to have Staal in their top 6.

Where does he fit in CGY? Ducks, Avs, MTL, BUF, and Canes are all fringe teams.

Coyle isn't as good a Krieder (who has more goals this year than Coyle has in the last 2 seasons combined) and had the same number of points in 8 less games last year. 4 x 20g seasons compared to 1. Krieder's worst fullish seasons are 16g (58 games) and 17g (66 games), it's not a stretch to say he would have been a 20g scorer 6 times. Krieder also has a much better Playoff resume.

 

[2Pair]

Where does he fit in CGY? Ducks, Avs, MTL, BUF, and Canes are all fringe teams.

Coyle isn't as good a Krieder (who has more goals this year than Coyle has in the last 2 seasons combined) and had the same number of points in 8 less games last year. 4 x 20g seasons compared to 1. Krieder's worst fullish seasons are 16g (58 games) and 17g (66 games), it's not a stretch to say he would have been a 20g scorer 6 times. Krieder also has a much better Playoff resume.

I'm gonna guess that Staal would play center in Calgary. Just a hunch

 

[Wabit]

I'm gonna guess that Staal would play center in Calgary. Just a hunch

3C, sure. He's not taking the place of Lindholm. Backlund fills the shutdown role better than Staal can.

 

[2Pair]

3C, sure. He's not taking the place of Lindholm. Backlund fills the shutdown role better than Staal can.

Staal is better than Backlund

 

[Wabit]

Staal is better than Backlund

Not for the fit/duties of that line. You'd put Staal with Neal (and hope Neal remember how to play hockey) and try to make a potent, matchup nightmare 3rd line.

 

[2Pair]

Not for the fit/duties of that line. You'd put Staal with Neal (and hope Neal remember how to play hockey) and try to make a potent, matchup nightmare 3rd line.

Backlund has played all year with Tkachuk. Calgary would put Staal there in a second.

 

[AKL]

Lindholm is playing right wing with Johnny and Mony almost exclusively. Backlund is playing 2C with Tkachuck. Staal would take that spot and move Backlund to 3C instantly, no matter what Flames fans try to tell you.

 

[Wabit]

Here are the players traded for 1sts during the season:
18-19: Muzzin, (EK, start of training camps)
17-18: E. Kane (1st conditional on him re-signing), McDonagh (lots of stuff in that trade), Tatar, Statney, Hartman, Nash (lots of cap dump involved), Brassard (3 team deal), Turris/Duchene (3 team deal).
16-17: Hanal, Eaves (conditional, 3rd round of the Playoffs and 50% games played), Shattenkirk
15-16: Ladd

Of these 1st's the pure rentals (without conditions) were: Statsney, Nash, Hanzal, Shattenkirk, Ladd. I'd say that all but Nash were the best available at their position as in-season trades. Lots of 1st's were traded during the off-seasons, but those don't pertain to Staal as a rental.

If Staal gets a 1st it'll be conditional, but I'd guess it will be more like the Patches/Skinner trades in the late off-season: 2nd+prospect (maybe more picks).

 

[Wabit]

Lindholm is playing right wing with Johnny and Mony almost exclusively. Backlund is playing 2C with Tkachuck. Staal would take that spot and move Backlund to 3C instantly, no matter what Flames fans try to tell you.

No it's common sense. The same as when Coyle was the "2C" with Parise and Koivu came back as the "3C". It lasted about 1 period. The better defensive center is going to play against other teams top lines. Neal isn't a winger you want to play in a defensive role. You want him with a scoring center.

 

[2Pair]

Here are the players traded for 1sts during the season:
18-19: Muzzin, (EK, start of training camps)
17-18: E. Kane (1st conditional on him re-signing), McDonagh (lots of stuff in that trade), Tatar, Statney, Hartman, Nash (lots of cap dump involved), Brassard (3 team deal), Turris/Duchene (3 team deal).
16-17: Hanal, Eaves (conditional, 3rd round of the Playoffs and 50% games played), Shattenkirk
15-16: Ladd

Of these 1st's the pure rentals (without conditions) were: Statsney, Nash, Hanzal, Shattenkirk, Ladd. I'd say that all but Nash were the best available at their position as in-season trades. Lots of 1st's were traded during the off-seasons, but those don't pertain to Staal as a rental.

If Staal gets a 1st it'll be conditional, but I'd guess it will be more like the Patches/Skinner trades in the late off-season: 2nd+prospect (maybe more picks).

Name the last top 6 center to be traded at the deadline that didn't return a 1st?

 

[2Pair]

No it's common sense. The same as when Coyle was the "2C" with Parise and Koivu came back as the "3C". It lasted about 1 period. The better defensive center is going to play against other teams top lines. Neal isn't a winger you want to play in a defensive role. You want him with a scoring center.

This analogy doesn't work because Koivu is a better offensive center than Coyle as well. If the Wild had 2 Eric Staals, Koivu would be on the 3rd line. And, Koivu is a better player than Backlund

 

[Wabit]

Name the last top 6 center to be traded at the deadline that didn't return a 1st?

Eric Staal?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Name the last top 6 center to be traded at the deadline that didn't return a 1st?

Eric Staal was playing the most minutes of any forward in Carolina when he was dealt to New York. Two 2nd rounders.

TOI-wise he was a top 6 center; production-wise, he was a bad one, which isn't the case this season.

 

[2Pair]

Eric Staal?

Yeah, he was considered a top 6 center when he was traded?
Probably why he got such a huge deal in free agency

 

[Wabit]

Yeah, he was considered a top 6 center when he was traded?
Probably why he got such a huge deal in free agency

19 mins a night, taking 600 FOs. He would have been an instant upgrade over Granny.

 

[2Pair]

19 mins a night, taking 600 FOs. He would have been an instant upgrade over Granny.

Where did he play in NY?

 

[Wabit]

Where did he play in NY?

He was a top-6 center when he was traded. We really should be grateful that AV isn't a good coach.

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

He was a top-6 center when he was traded. We really should be grateful that AV isn't a good coach.

He was paid and played like a top 6 center, but wasn't producing like one. 10 goals and 33 points in 63 games with the most TOI among forwards on the team that year by amount a minute per game.

To compare, this year he has 17 goals and 36 points in 49 games and is 4th in TOI among forwards.

 

[Wabit]

He was paid and played like a top 6 center, but wasn't producing like one. 10 goals and 33 points in 63 games with the most TOI among forwards on the team that year by amount a minute per game.

To compare, this year he has 17 goals and 36 points in 49 games and is 4th in TOI among forwards.

Car didn't even score 200g as a team that season. His 54p the year before was 15p higher than the 2nd highest FWD on the team. The 33p he got in Car still put him in the top-6 on the team in scoring.

He still would have been an upgrade over the 2C the Wild had at the time, but who knows how Yeo/Torch would have used him?

 

[Dr Jan Itor]

Car didn't even score 200g as a team that season. His 54p the year before was 15p higher than the 2nd highest FWD on the team. The 33p he got in Car still put him in the top-6 on the team in scoring.

He still would have been an upgrade over the 2C the Wild had at the time, but who knows how Yeo/Torch would have used him?

And his bad performance was factor in Carolina scoring so few goals. Some might even say the biggest factor considering the ice time that he got.

 

[57special]

I thought Staal was a bit better today, but if he continues to be a non factor then he is playing his way out a FA offer this summer from the Wild, and possibly a lot of other teams. A shame that he would do it for two contracts in a row, as he has been great for the majority of his time here.

 

[TaLoN]

I thought Staal was a bit better today, but if he continues to be a non factor then he is playing his way out a FA offer this summer from the Wild, and possibly a lot of other teams. A shame that he would do it for two contracts in a row, as he has been great for the majority of his time here.

I thought he was absolutely brutal to watch today... if that's "better" then I'm teally glad I missed the last couple games.