Value of: Eric Staal, Jared Spurgeon, Charlie Coyle, Nino Niederreiter

[Dr Jan Itor]

How about the Leafs people just leave? Nylander is 20+40 wing, which is technically worse than what Niederreiter can do in a year. Same amount of primary points on 5v5 too...

Nylander has his own thread in the front page, go chew there...

He's a 20/21 year old 20+40 wing, and as of now, Nino's 57 point season is the exception, not the rule.

 

[780il]

Well... I'd think Coyle for Pulj could work for Minnesota. But, I don't think Edmonton has the cap space for this.

Minnesota adds in this scenario.

No way we're sending you Pulju unless we get Zucker back.

 

[Bazeek]

No way we're sending you Pulju unless we get Zucker back.

The Oilers don't have a much else that they can afford to give up.

 

[Fogelhund]

How willing are you to include Nylander in a deal? We could re-work the entire thing as:
Spurgeon+Staal+????
for
Kadri+Nylander

???? - I have no clue what this would be. Don't take it as a big addition or a little addition.

Staal's value is very hard to gauge. He scored 42 goals last year, his cap hit is extremely cheap for what he provides, but he is in the last year of his deal. He would give Toronto 3 of the top 15 centers in the game (arguably).

I was thinking of the previous deal you had posted.. and adding to that, to get equivalent value.

It was Spurgeon + Coyle for Kadri + Brown + 1st.

Taking Coyle out....

Kadri + 1st is a bit rich for Spurgeon on his own.... Maybe Kadri + 1/2 of the first.

Staal is probably worth about a first on his own... so... maybe a 1st + 2nd... I don't know.

Kadri + Brown + 1st... then whatever it takes to make up the difference between Coyle and Staal as a rental.... I'm not sure what that is. Brown is maybe worth a second... I'm guessing a second and a mid range prospect covers the difference there.

 

[DRW204]

How's Staal looking this year notably speed/agility, defensively and playmaking wise? I know he plays with Zucker who is a burner so it's not like he's unfamiliar with fast players, but just wondering on his game as an individual.

 

[Rare Jewel]

Minnesota adds in this scenario.

Would you add the rights to Kaprizov?

 

[Stephen]

Nylander trade offers incoming in 3...2...1

I wouldn't take all five of those guys for Nylander.

 

[780il]

I wouldn't take all five of those guys for Nylander.

Number 1. Thats 4, FOUR guys
Number 2. Wtf lol

 

[57special]

Spurgeon and Staal to Toronto for Nylander and a 2019 2nd would work for me, not sure about anyone else.

So, TOR gets another #1C? Kind of ridiculous, no? TOR, together with PIT, and TB, aRe one of the few contending teams that couldn't use Staal. If you're not giving him top minutes and PP time then you are wasting him. He also is not good at playing wing.

All this is beside tHe value in the proposed deal, which isn't good.

 

[Digitalbooya]

No way we're sending you Pulju unless we get Zucker back.

As a fan of both teams, I don't have the slightest idea as to how you could say Pulj has anywhere near Zucker's value.

I was thinking of the previous deal you had posted.. and adding to that, to get equivalent value.

It was Spurgeon + Coyle for Kadri + Brown + 1st.

Taking Coyle out....

Kadri + 1st is a bit rich for Spurgeon on his own.... Maybe Kadri + 1/2 of the first.

Staal is probably worth about a first on his own... so... maybe a 1st + 2nd... I don't know.

Kadri + Brown + 1st... then whatever it takes to make up the difference between Coyle and Staal as a rental.... I'm not sure what that is. Brown is maybe worth a second... I'm guessing a second and a mid range prospect covers the difference there.

Well my thinking was Spurgeon = Kadri, but Toronto fans have said in the past they don't really have a third line center to replace him so that's why I included Coyle in the original proposal. Staal seems like extreme overkill for your 3rd line center and I definitely would not try him as a winger (See: his time as a NYR).

I don't have enough of an understanding on Toronto's organization to know how they value players besides big namers.

So you propose Kadri+Brown+1st+2nd+B-C prospect for Spurgeon+Staal? I think I would agree to that trade.

Then the lines for each team change as follows:
Zucker-Kadri-Granlund
Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Nino-Eriksson Ek-Brown
Foligno-Fehr-Brown/Hendricks

Marleau-Matthews-Kapanen
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Lindholm-Staal-Johnsson
Leivo-Gauthier-Ennis

Rielly-Spurgeon
Gardiner-Hainsey
Dermott-Zaitsev

Would you add the rights to Kaprizov?

Ha, no. That's one mystery box I refuse to trade away. Way too much potential there.

 

[gwh]

He's a 20/21 year old 20+40 wing, and as of now, Nino's 57 point season is the exception, not the rule.

Good thing he whoops Willie on every stat category on 5v5, outside 2nd assists. Didn't check the PP.

Willie got the age benefit, but he is hardly the future multiallstar TOR fans seem to think he might become. Just poorly defending Granlund with an upside at this point.

 

[Fogelhund]

How about the Leafs people just leave? Nylander is 20+40 wing, which is technically worse than what Niederreiter can do in a year. Same amount of primary points on 5v5 too...

Nylander has his own thread in the front page, go chew there...

Corsica | Skater Stats

I thought Nino was a great draft pick, and a prospect that I had very high hopes for. Your comparison falls very far from the mark.

Your comparison is disingenuous at best. Comparing Nylander's first two years in the NHL, and his 3rd and 4th post draft, to Nino's 4th and 5th year in the NHL, 7th and 8th year post draft.

You want to compare them, compare their 3rd and 4th post draft years (I will go 4th and 5th for Nino given lockout). Nylander had 122 points in the NHL, Nino had 73 points.

Nino did have that one great year, but has primarily been a 30's-40's points scorer, and has been trending down, with a poor start this year... to be frank, if you have a 30ish points player again this year, at $5.25 million, you are approaching cap dump status.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I wouldn't take all five of those guys for Nylander.

You wouldn't be able to anyways. You don't have the cap space.

 

[Digitalbooya]

I thought Nino was a great draft pick, and a prospect that I had very high hopes for. Your comparison falls very far from the mark.

Your comparison is disingenuous at best. Comparing Nylander's first two years in the NHL, and his 3rd and 4th post draft, to Nino's 4th and 5th year in the NHL, 7th and 8th year post draft.

You want to compare them, compare their 3rd and 4th post draft years (I will go 4th and 5th for Nino given lockout). Nylander had 122 points in the NHL, Nino had 73 points.

Nino did have that one great year, but has primarily been a 30's-40's points scorer, and has been trending down, with a poor start this year... to be frank, if you have a 30ish points player again this year, at $5.25 million, you are approaching cap dump status.

To be fair, Nino also didn't get to play with an Auston Matthews level player right from essentially the start of his NHL career.

 

[KingPuckChoo]

Niederreiter
Coyle
Spurgeon

for

Toffoli
Pearson
Martinez

 

[AvalancheSpeedsters]

I heard Jared is the best one though

Not true. Don't forget their Georgian cousin playing in the KHL, Joseph Staalin. He's one mean SOB

 

[gwh]

I thought Nino was a great draft pick, and a prospect that I had very high hopes for. Your comparison falls very far from the mark.

Your comparison is disingenuous at best. Comparing Nylander's first two years in the NHL, and his 3rd and 4th post draft, to Nino's 4th and 5th year in the NHL, 7th and 8th year post draft.

You want to compare them, compare their 3rd and 4th post draft years (I will go 4th and 5th for Nino given lockout). Nylander had 122 points in the NHL, Nino had 73 points.

Nino did have that one great year, but has primarily been a 30's-40's points scorer, and has been trending down, with a poor start this year... to be frank, if you have a 30ish points player again this year, at $5.25 million, you are approaching cap dump status.

He ll do 2.7 goals / 60 like every year.

That would 21st best in the league for last 2 season average. The rankings surrounding "the cap dump" for 5v5 goals per 60. Players over 1500minutes.

18	JOHNNY.GAUDREAU	2016-2018
19	EVGENI.MALKIN	2016-2018
20	JEFF.SKINNER	2016-2018
21	NINO.NIEDERREITER	2016-2018
22	ALEKSANDER.BARKOV	2016-2018
23	JAMES.VAN RIEMSDYK	2016-2018
24	PATRIC.HORNQVIST

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

P.S. He also has the best relative corsi in the whole league for forwards, if you believe in that voodoo instead.

 

[780il]

As a fan of both teams, I don't have the slightest idea as to how you could say Pulj has anywhere near Zucker's value.

Well my thinking was Spurgeon = Kadri, but Toronto fans have said in the past they don't really have a third line center to replace him so that's why I included Coyle in the original proposal. Staal seems like extreme overkill for your 3rd line center and I definitely would not try him as a winger (See: his time as a NYR).

I don't have enough of an understanding on Toronto's organization to know how they value players besides big namers.

So you propose Kadri+Brown+1st+2nd+B-C prospect for Spurgeon+Staal? I think I would agree to that trade.

Then the lines for each team change as follows:
Zucker-Kadri-Granlund
Parise-Koivu-Coyle
Nino-Eriksson Ek-Brown
Foligno-Fehr-Brown/Hendricks

Marleau-Matthews-Kapanen
Hyman-Tavares-Marner
Lindholm-Staal-Johnsson
Leivo-Gauthier-Ennis

Rielly-Spurgeon
Gardiner-Hainsey
Dermott-Zaitsev

Ha, no. That's one mystery box I refuse to trade away. Way too much potential there.

It would obv be Pulju +

 

[Critical13]

I wouldn't take all five of those guys for Nylander.

I would definitely considering moving Nylander if Spurgeon was on the market. That dudes awesome.

 

[TLEH]

Brandon Saad for Charlie Coyle

 

[Rare Jewel]

Ha, no. That's one mystery box I refuse to trade away. Way too much potential there.

I see, but that's the guy I'd need as well if it's Spurgeon and Nylander.

 

[Fogelhund]

He ll do 2.7 goals / 60 like every year.

That would 21st best in the league for last 2 season average. The rankings surrounding "the cap dump" for 5v5 goals per 60. Players over 1500minutes.

18	JOHNNY.GAUDREAU	2016-2018
19	EVGENI.MALKIN	2016-2018
20	JEFF.SKINNER	2016-2018
21	NINO.NIEDERREITER	2016-2018
22	ALEKSANDER.BARKOV	2016-2018
23	JAMES.VAN RIEMSDYK	2016-2018
24	PATRIC.HORNQVIST

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

He scores goals.... that's what he does. 11 goals last year E/S A grand total of 14 assists all year...

Perhaps your argument is that he is massively misplayed by your coach, and that his 0.5PPG is a abnormal... even though it is pretty indicative of every other season he's had, except that one season.

Just as an interesting point... NN's best year, was 2016/17, where he had 17 5v5 goals, averaging 12:59 Minutes per game 5v5. That's your claim on him, that he's so good, because he haa such good 5v5 scoring.

Connor Brown in the same year, had 17 goals, 5v5, averaging 12:52 Minutes per game 5v5.

Funny, Connor Brown's rate was better than Nino's... is that because Brown is better than Nino?

Is Connor Brown a great, super valuable guy too?

P.S. He also has the best relative corsi in the whole league for forwards, if you believe in that voodoo instead.

It's a valuable measure, but a false claim. Nino does score well in possession and defensive metrics.

We can all Cherry Pick a couple of stats, to try and plead our case.... but let's keep in mind... Nino had 32 points last year... and assists are valuable too, and offensively is regressing... and ONE point so far this year. (Connor Brown has three FWIW)

 

[Digitalbooya]

It would obv be Pulju +

+ what exactly? 30 goal scorers don't get traded often, especially when they just signed a long term extension with a team. There's a reason he's not one of the four mentioned in this thread.

 

[57special]

Brandon Saad for Charlie Coyle

I think I'll stay with the disappointing player who can play C and is paid 3.2M over the one who is paid 6M and is a winger.

 

[AKL]

It would obv be Pulju +

Obviously. And the problem again becomes, you don't have anything else to add.