Rumor: Eric Engel: "Mtl is locked on Kotkaniemi"

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I don't think the Blue Jacket's are wishing that they went with Puljujarvi instead of Dubois, who was also a late riser into the top 5.

Critic the player all you want, but the fact that he was a riser alone shouldn't be anywhere close to a major red flag. Great prospects rise and fall all the time.

No, you’re right it’s not a major red flag. And I love KotK as a player. I think he’s going to be great. I just see teams regret taking players based on need vs best player available often, especially at the top end of the draft. For example, what if Tampa would’ve taken Jones instead of Drouin? And I think that there is some difference in Zadina potential vs Kotk potential. To me, I take Zadina.

 

[Habs Halifax]

No, you’re right it’s not a major red flag. And I love KotK as a player. I think he’s going to be great. I just see teams regret taking players based on need vs best player available often, especially at the top end of the draft. For example, what if Tampa would’ve taken Jones instead of Drouin? And I think that there is some difference in Zadina potential vs Kotk potential. To me, I take Zadina.

Jones don't count. We are talking about players who are trending later in their draft year. Jones was a top rated pick all year and slipped to 4th. Find me a player who was ranking 10-15 range mid season and dropped to top 5 near the end of the year due to hype. There is reason why these players drop in rankings... they peaked late in their draft year and the hype is usually real vs not.

I'm sure someone can find me an example? Not trying to troll anyone, I've been looking and can't find any so far. Guys who skyrocketed up the rankings near the end and busted or extremely disappointed.

 

[sheed36]

I can’t Understand why their rolling the dice on someone who was being projected to be picked at 15-20 a month ago. Pick Zadina or trade the pick for a quality young C.

Like who? Would teams even trade a quality young center for a 3rd overall in this draft? I doubt it with a draft this wide open at the 3rd spot. A young quality center is likely worth much more than the 3rd overall in this draft plus teams are often reluctant to part with one if they do have one.

 

[ClydeLee]

Seems interesting if he is that high but if not, why wouldn't Mtl draft Zadina then trade him to a team down to get Koto. Is there something against the rules in doing that in the NHL It doesn't seem to happen but does in the NFL/NBA drafts.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Posted this in another thread as well... Can anyone help me out here? I've been looking for guys like Kotkaniemi who skyrocketed into the top 5 due to hype at the end of the year and were ranked 10-15 (+/-) mid season. Looking for guys who had lots of hype later in the year but busted? I found a few who ended up being very good picks and trying to measure this against other busts.

- Pettersson: Mid season rank was 11 and final rank was 7. Would he of been a stretch to take earlier? I think not

- Heiskanen: Mid season rank was 13 and final rank was 3. Bad pick? Good Pick? You tell me.

- PLD: Mid season rank was 8 and final rank was 5. Blue Jackets took him 3rd.

- Keller: Mid season rank was 15 and final rank was 8. Would he of been a bad pick at 3rd? I think not!

- Draisaitl ? Can't find info on him (mid vs final ranking)

There has to be a few picks who where ranked 10-15 range mid season, dropped in rankings at the end of the year due to hype, were taken in the top 5, but busted? Anybody remember any? The point of measuring this is what is hype on certain players at final rankings worth? How often do they bust and the Hype was wrong and they should of not skyrocketed down in rankings?

I used McKenzie's rankings cause they hold more value than most others.

 

[Viqsi]

Posted this in another thread as well... Can anyone help me out here? I've been looking for guys like Kotkaniemi who skyrocketed into the top 5 due to hype at the end of the year and were ranked 10-15 (+/-) mid season. Looking for guys who had lots of hype later in the year but busted? I found a few who ended up being very good picks and trying to measure this against other busts.

- Pettersson: Mid season rank was 11 and final rank was 7. Would he of been a stretch to take earlier? I think not

- Heiskanen: Mid season rank was 13 and final rank was 3. Bad pick? Good Pick? You tell me.

- PLD: Mid season rank was 8 and final rank was 5. Blue Jackets took him 3rd.

- Keller: Mid season rank was 15 and final rank was 8. Would he of been a bad pick at 3rd? I think not!

- Draisaitl ? Can't find info on him (mid vs final ranking)

There has to be a few picks who where ranked 10-15 range mid season, dropped in rankings at the end of the year due to hype, were taken in the top 5, but busted? Anybody remember any? The point of measuring this is what is hype on certain players at final rankings worth? How often do they bust and the Hype was wrong and they should of not skyrocketed down in rankings?

I used McKenzie's rankings cause they hold more value than most others.

Could also look for guys who were ranked even lower at midseason. Again, Johansen comes to mind.

 

[Doublechin]

Posted this in another thread as well... Can anyone help me out here? I've been looking for guys like Kotkaniemi who skyrocketed into the top 5 due to hype at the end of the year and were ranked 10-15 (+/-) mid season. Looking for guys who had lots of hype later in the year but busted? I found a few who ended up being very good picks and trying to measure this against other busts.

- Pettersson: Mid season rank was 11 and final rank was 7. Would he of been a stretch to take earlier? I think not

- Heiskanen: Mid season rank was 13 and final rank was 3. Bad pick? Good Pick? You tell me.

- PLD: Mid season rank was 8 and final rank was 5. Blue Jackets took him 3rd.

- Keller: Mid season rank was 15 and final rank was 8. Would he of been a bad pick at 3rd? I think not!

- Draisaitl ? Can't find info on him (mid vs final ranking)

There has to be a few picks who where ranked 10-15 range mid season, dropped in rankings at the end of the year due to hype, were taken in the top 5, but busted? Anybody remember any? The point of measuring this is what is hype on certain players at final rankings worth? How often do they bust and the Hype was wrong and they should of not skyrocketed down in rankings?

I used McKenzie's rankings cause they hold more value than most others.

 

[Jarey Curry]

Yes, between those two, Puljujarvi will definitely be the better Finnish player.

Seriously, hon. Dubois is already a #1C. There's not much Puljujarvi can do to top that.

Already #1C? What did I just read. Well he is ahead but to say Puljujarvi cant top 48p in 82games is a very poor bet. Dubois is gonna get better than that obviously but when Puljujarvi really hits his stride I dont think people give this much crap to him anymore. We'll find out soon enough I guess!

 

[didimentionlarseller]

I don't know enough about draft picks to really know but i still hope we're taking BPA and not drafting for position my only real worry with Zadina is he doesn't seem to score from all over the ice like Svechnikov , all his goals are pretty tight to the net from the video i watched anyways

Next year seems to be the year to go in for centers id be totally happy with either player really tho

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Jones don't count. We are talking about players who are trending later in their draft year. Jones was a top rated pick all year and slipped to 4th. Find me a player who was ranking 10-15 range mid season and dropped to top 5 near the end of the year due to hype. There is reason why these players drop in rankings... they peaked late in their draft year and the hype is usually real vs not.

I'm sure someone can find me an example? Not trying to troll anyone, I've been looking and can't find any so far. Guys who skyrocketed up the rankings near the end and busted or extremely disappointed.

No I agree with you there. My point was more towards taking the best player available. There is not doubt in my mind that Kotk is a top 10 talent, and the end of the year solidified that, but I still don’t think he has the upside of Zadina. That’s all I was saying.

 

[MasterMatt25]

Posted this in another thread as well... Can anyone help me out here? I've been looking for guys like Kotkaniemi who skyrocketed into the top 5 due to hype at the end of the year and were ranked 10-15 (+/-) mid season. Looking for guys who had lots of hype later in the year but busted? I found a few who ended up being very good picks and trying to measure this against other busts.

- Pettersson: Mid season rank was 11 and final rank was 7. Would he of been a stretch to take earlier? I think not

- Heiskanen: Mid season rank was 13 and final rank was 3. Bad pick? Good Pick? You tell me.

- PLD: Mid season rank was 8 and final rank was 5. Blue Jackets took him 3rd.

- Keller: Mid season rank was 15 and final rank was 8. Would he of been a bad pick at 3rd? I think not!

- Draisaitl ? Can't find info on him (mid vs final ranking)

There has to be a few picks who where ranked 10-15 range mid season, dropped in rankings at the end of the year due to hype, were taken in the top 5, but busted? Anybody remember any? The point of measuring this is what is hype on certain players at final rankings worth? How often do they bust and the Hype was wrong and they should of not skyrocketed down in rankings?

I used McKenzie's rankings cause they hold more value than most others.

Draisaitl was in the supposed top 5 months before the draft. If memories serve me correct, everyone was prediciting the top 5 to be Bennett, Dal Colle, Draisaitl, Ekblad and Reinhart in some order followed by Nylander

 

[Viqsi]

Already #1C? What did I just read.

The truth.

 

[MasterMatt25]

The truth.

He ain't a 1C yet. Maybe 2C but he's still a bit away. Give him more than one year to prove himself

 

[Jarey Curry]

The truth.

Yes Dubois is #1C if we use that logic that Malkin is nothing but #2C. But Dubois ain't a #1C caliber player at 19yo compared to other teams top centers. He's getting there though

 

[Bobee]

Haha take Tkatchuk. With how long the rebuild is taking in edmonton, at least with him,
domi and gallagher we'll have something to watch for the next 10 years......

 

[haveandare]

Hope they do take him at 3, leaves NYR a better player at 9

 

[AmericanDream]

Hope they do take him at 3, leaves NYR a better player at 9

yup and Hawks at 8...I am so happy this is happening, reach reach reach Montreal...help the Hawks land Wahlstrom at 8!!!!

 

[Riggins]

Bobby Mac has him ranked #5 by polling 10 NHL scouts. How is taking Kotkaniemi #3 a reach? Wake up people. Things have changed after the U18.

 

[1909]

Bobby Mac has him ranked #5 by polling 10 NHL scouts. How is taking Kotkaniemi #3 a reach? Wake up people. Things have changed after the U18.

One tournement doesn't make a carreer.

 

[Deam78]

One tournement doesn't make a carreer.

No, but a major tournament in a draft year do change the rankings.

 

[haveandare]

I had him 10-15 or so, so 3 is a pretty big jump for one tournament. I’m a believer in BPA personally.

 

[LeapOnOver]

Especially with the lottery you have no idea where team is picking, you either can't say those are locks to become #1C's& Montreal needs more than 1 C option.

Healthy Price+ Weber with bad lottery luck would have them outside top5, and then you wonder how many franchise C prospects are ranked in the 5+

Yeah, I guess that's a good point. Rebuilding is a multi-year process so they should consider next year's draft when making decisions this year. Everybody is talking about Kotkaniemi so I don't think Habs will get much heat if they go with him.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

I had him 10-15 or so, so 3 is a pretty big jump for one tournament. I’m a believer in BPA personally.

He didn't go up just because he had a great tournament. I think a lot it has to do with scouts being able to watch Kotkaniemi more. I don't think he got anywhere near as much attention from the scouts as the other top prospects were getting because he was playing in Finland. The time zone difference and the accessibility to watch the games made it much harder.

Scouts can easily watch junior players (svech, zadina, dobson, bouchard).
The same goes for college players (tkachuk and hughes).
With the amount of prospects on Wahlstrom's team, he obviously got a ton of coverage.
Scouts have been watching Dahlin for years.

Kotkaniemi and Boqvist weren't getting as much attention. The u18 was probably the 1st time many scouts watched Kotkaniemi for an extended period of time. After the tournaments were over, they also had the time to over the games Kotka played in the liiga.

 

[Baksfamous112]

Posted this in another thread as well... Can anyone help me out here? I've been looking for guys like Kotkaniemi who skyrocketed into the top 5 due to hype at the end of the year and were ranked 10-15 (+/-) mid season. Looking for guys who had lots of hype later in the year but busted? I found a few who ended up being very good picks and trying to measure this against other busts.

- Pettersson: Mid season rank was 11 and final rank was 7. Would he of been a stretch to take earlier? I think not

- Heiskanen: Mid season rank was 13 and final rank was 3. Bad pick? Good Pick? You tell me.

- PLD: Mid season rank was 8 and final rank was 5. Blue Jackets took him 3rd.

- Keller: Mid season rank was 15 and final rank was 8. Would he of been a bad pick at 3rd? I think not!

- Draisaitl ? Can't find info on him (mid vs final ranking)

There has to be a few picks who where ranked 10-15 range mid season, dropped in rankings at the end of the year due to hype, were taken in the top 5, but busted? Anybody remember any? The point of measuring this is what is hype on certain players at final rankings worth? How often do they bust and the Hype was wrong and they should of not skyrocketed down in rankings?

I used McKenzie's rankings cause they hold more value than most others.

Makar, Huberdeau and to some extent Perron as well

 

[Cole4Christmas]

Zadina has been compared to Hossa, so....

And Kotkaniemi has been compared to Anze Kopitar. Guess it depends on needs.
Habs will be happy if he even ends up like David Krecji or Ryan O'Reilly