Rumor: Eric Engel: "Mtl is locked on Kotkaniemi"

[THall4]

Did you say the same thing when Columbus took Dubois over Puljujarvi?

Weren't these boards riddled with criticism of CBJ for passing on Pulju?

Especially when Dubois struggled in Jr once he went back....

 

[THall4]

One could argue that Dubois was in fact BPA; that just wasn't universally recognized at the time.

In hindsight yes he proving it right now...at the time its was pretty much consensus that Matthews, Laine and Pulju were the top 3 (in that order).
That's why the draft is such a crap shoot a lot of the time...hard to judge the development of an 18 year and its never linear.

I mean, who the heck knew Pulju would've needed this much time to develop...

 

[THall4]

I don't mean to gloat...but I called the Habs wanting Kotkaniemi @ 3OA months ago lol

 

[Viqsi]

In hindsight yes he proving it right now...at the time its was pretty much consensus that Matthews, Laine and Pulju were the top 3 (in that order).
That's why the draft is such a crap shoot a lot of the time...hard to judge the development of an 18 year and its never linear.

I mean, who the heck knew Pulju would've needed this much time to develop...

I'd tentatively guessed it, but that had less to do with Puljujarvi himself and more to do with my unfortunately extraordinarily low opinion of Edmonton's development facilities, admittedly.

 

[TimeZone]

Scoring wingers < Top 2 centers. It's not rocket science.

BPA > Drafting for positional need it's not rocket science.


Disgusting if you pass over Zadina, watched the kid play multiple times live this year, he is the real deal.

 

[Habs Halifax]

BPA > Drafting for positional need it's not rocket science.


Disgusting if you pass over Zadina, watched the kid play multiple times live this year, he is the real deal.

Blue Jackets drafted PLD over Pool Party. Why? Cause BPA don't exist at the 3rd pick. Zadina is the popular pick, not the undisputed 3rd guy. You are using rankings from this past December and have made up your mind months ago. It's pre-mature.

BPA means Best Popular Player to you. The only thing I will admit to is Zadina is the safe pick. I'm not interested in the safe pick. I'm interested in a top 2 center with #1C potential. That is Kotkaniemi and we would be stupid to pass on this.

And I know Zadina very well... I have a season pass to Mooseheads games. He is a future 30 NHL goal scorer. They are easier to acquire vs a top 2 center. Zadina has a quick release and also has play making ability in tight space. However, his skating is not like Hischier, it's very average or maybe slightly above average. Zadina's value in the NHL in on the PP. He is not a 200' player. He is a scoring winger. A guy like Wahlstrom is very similar

 

[Captain97]

BPA > Drafting for positional need it's not rocket science.


Disgusting if you pass over Zadina, watched the kid play multiple times live this year, he is the real deal.

Hmm habs fans are told first line wingers aren't worth top 6 centres. Habs plan to draft guy has ceiling of Barkov and floor of 2C and we are crazy for not drafting the first line winger of similar albeit slightly better pedigree?

 

[Habs Halifax]

Hmm habs fans are told first line wingers aren't worth top 6 centres. Habs plan to draft guy has ceiling of Barkov and floor of 2C and we are crazy for not drafting the first line winger of similar albeit slightly better pedigree?

Like when Duchene > Patch. It's always twisted against us not matter the circumstance. We are a team that other fans love to hate. It's clear

 

[Viqsi]

Hmm habs fans are told first line wingers aren't worth top 6 centres. Habs plan to draft guy has ceiling of Barkov and floor of 2C and we are crazy for not drafting the first line winger of similar albeit slightly better pedigree?

The problem is that folks are taking a basic rule of thumb (if there's a significant difference between BPA and the position you need, go BPA) and trying to turn it into a hard-and-fast Universal Law based on publicly available scouting lists that do not accurately show the gaps between tiers of players.

It's less an anti-Habs thing and more a "you're not adhering to my predictions, therefore you're doing something wrong."

 

[Boxscore]

I don't think taking a big, emerging centerman over scoring wingers is a bad play for Montreal BUT they must be right. If Kotkaniemi ends up in the mold of Kopitar, Barkov, Dubois, Draisaitl... or even Couturier, the Habs made the right decision, even if Zadina or Tkachuk score 30 goals. However, if Kotkaniemi ends up Anisimov and Zadina and Tkachuk end up Heatley and Perry, the Canadiens are in a world of hurt, passing up on "higher ranked" players.

 

[Jigger77]

Like when Duchene > Patch. It's always twisted against us not matter the circumstance. We are a team that other fans love to hate. It's clear

Well, to be fair our own fans love to hate us too

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

Did you say the same thing when Columbus took Dubois over Puljujarvi?

It’s axtually spelt poolparty, but I’m sure he did

 

[Habs Halifax]

Well, to be fair our own fans love to hate us too

True!

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

They will try to draft down, but they are locked on Kotkaniemi.
That is what the habs fans thought, still hope we trade down to 5-6 to get him and not draft him at #3.

I can’t Understand why their rolling the dice on someone who was being projected to be picked at 15-20 a month ago. Pick Zadina or trade the pick for a quality young C.

 

[Captain97]

I can’t Understand why their rolling the dice on someone who was being projected to be picked at 15-20 a month ago. Pick Zadina or trade the pick for a quality young C.

Its almost like scouts have become of higher opinion of Kotkaniemi, almost like Bobby Mack sees him as a top 5 talent and has publicly stated taking him third overall is not a reach of any sort.

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I don't think taking a big, emerging centerman over scoring wingers is a bad play for Montreal BUT they must be right. If Kotkaniemi ends up in the mold of Kopitar, Barkov, Dubois, Draisaitl... or even Couturier, the Habs made the right decision, even if Zadina or Tkachuk score 30 goals. However, if Kotkaniemi ends up Anisimov and Zadina and Tkachuk end up Heatley and Perry, the Canadiens are in a world of hurt, passing up on "higher ranked" players.

if everything goes well ( no injury, development à la Detroit Red wings in the AHL for 2-3 years) then there is realistically no reason for him to not be a proficient #1c.

Like I said in one of my Post, the kid is constantly getting better and better and the good thing with him is that his only downsides are aspects that can be EASILY trained, which are:
- Speed and acceleration
- weight and balance

for the rest he is comparable to a young Barkov and Kopitar. There is realistically no way this kid can be a bust.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I don't think taking a big, emerging centerman over scoring wingers is a bad play for Montreal BUT they must be right. If Kotkaniemi ends up in the mold of Kopitar, Barkov, Dubois, Draisaitl... or even Couturier, the Habs made the right decision, even if Zadina or Tkachuk score 30 goals. However, if Kotkaniemi ends up Anisimov and Zadina and Tkachuk end up Heatley and Perry, the Canadiens are in a world of hurt, passing up on "higher ranked" players.

There is no guarantees with either player. Zadina is the safer pick but most would of said the same with Poolparty vs PLD in 2016 as well. Worse case, the Habs have a 2nd line center or scoring winger with play making ability in Kotkaniemi... which is what Zadina is. For as much as I like Zadina, I like Kotkaniemi more and I know the back lash if he fails like Galchenyuk. In truth, every team has the same risks with player projections from 3-10 range picks in this draft.

 

[NobleSix]

I can’t Understand why their rolling the dice on someone who was being projected to be picked at 15-20 a month ago. Pick Zadina or trade the pick for a quality young C.

I don't think the Blue Jacket's are wishing that they went with Puljujarvi instead of Dubois, who was also a late riser into the top 5.

Critic the player all you want, but the fact that he was a riser alone shouldn't be anywhere close to a major red flag. Great prospects rise and fall all the time.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I can’t Understand why their rolling the dice on someone who was being projected to be picked at 15-20 a month ago. Pick Zadina or trade the pick for a quality young C.

A month ago? Did you ever consider that you looked at the rankings a month ago and they were dated more than a month ago? The rankings from Dec-Apr don't count.

Rankings today >> Rankings from Dec-Apr

Inform yourself.. Go look at WHY people are talking about Kotkaniemi and it's just not Habs fans. His international stats are very impressive and he is 9 months younger vs Zadina

 

[HockeyDBspecialist]

I can’t Understand why their rolling the dice on someone who was being projected to be picked at 15-20 a month ago. Pick Zadina or trade the pick for a quality young C.

same goes for Dubois who went from 20th+ to #3. some player just play better as the season goes and some play worst.
Watch his Highlights, the only downsides he had was the speed and balance + weight, as time goes by he worked those weaknesses and he is slowly starting to become a realllllllly great Prospect.

 

[Scintillating10]

As a Wings fan, I think they should switch spots... that way they can get Zadina (unless defense, of course). But it would depend on what they'd have to give up for #3.

Maybe your 2nd? Just guessing but that should be close

 

[BatVader]

For the Habs,
If you are choosing between 1st ranked Dahlin and 5th ranked Kotkaniemi, then you choose BPA and take Dahlin, no question about it. Same goes for Svechnikov.
If you are choosing between 4th ranked Zadina and 5th ranked Kotkaniemi, then you choose BPPA(Best Positional Player Available) and take Kotkaniemi, no question about it.
It’s not like your passing over a top 5 pick for a mid 20’s pick.

 

[BB88]

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I keep seeing this like it's a a general consensus Montreal lost on these trades. The Drouin one doesn't look great but there is a lot of time for Drouin to turn things around and Sergachev also had his struggles at times this year.

As far as Weber he was excellent in his first year here and then last year he broke his foot in the first game of the year last season and never fully recovered. I still take Weber over Subban on my team personally and so would a lot of people.

To me that would look a lot better if they still had Subban, atleast they could have said we have Subban to build around on defense, it's time we brought in some high end talent to F core.
Weber is too old to build around the rebuild and they lost their guy who they could have built the defense around, or a guy who could have returned a promising C in a trade.

They've traded their best assets for wingers now.

 

[16thOverallSaveUs]

I don't think the Blue Jacket's are wishing that they went with Puljujarvi instead of Dubois, who was also a late riser into the top 5.

Critic the player all you want, but the fact that he was a riser alone shouldn't be anywhere close to a major red flag. Great prospects rise and fall all the time.

That’s fair but it seems puljujarvi was more of a mismanagement of talent that nobody would’ve predicted. I read scouting reports that said poolparty was a 1st overall pick in any other year. There were articles saying that there was no way he falls out of the top 3. Dubios turned out to be a better pick because of mismanagement of pulju. It’s one scenario where drafting for needs vs taking the best player available works out. It usually doesn’t.

 

[BB88]

I can’t Understand why their rolling the dice on someone who was being projected to be picked at 15-20 a month ago. Pick Zadina or trade the pick for a quality young C.

It's not something new for European prospects to get looked over, he opened some eyes at the u18's.