GWT: EPL Week 33

S E P H

Cloud IX
Mar 5, 2010
30,706
16,238
Toruń, PL
Holy smokes, people can bash or call Arsenal whatever words they want. That was as pathetic as a loss on the entire season and this mediocre Everton team was dangerous enough to score at least two more. That's a game where absolutely nobody showed up, even Ramsey (who's been Arsenal's best player for the past three to four weeks) looked totally incompetent. Fully deserved team loss tonight bluds.
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
1,713
La Plata, Maryland
I mean, it's obvious their backline is a problem. They need to spend and fix it, but I think a bigger question I have is whether or not they're going to have to move on from one of their strikers. I don't think Emery, or the two players in question to be fair, like using both at the same time.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
I mean, it's obvious their backline is a problem. They need to spend and fix it, but I think a bigger question I have is whether or not they're going to have to move on from one of their strikers. I don't think Emery, or the two players in question to be fair, like using both at the same time.
Which is a bit weird because you'd think you could come up with a system that can use both Aubameyang and Lacazette, given they're both pretty different.

Here you go Emery:

Aubameyang - Lacazette
Ozil
Torreira - Ramsey
Guendouzi
A line of pylons occupying 4 positions
Keeper​
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
1,713
La Plata, Maryland
I guess. I'm not sure I'm sold on that midfield 4 (or if Ozil's more of an attacker in that) doing the work needed. At least not at this stage. Everton was getting through the midfield and into the wide attacking areas without any real resistance. Sure, Arsenal has some guys who can pass it about, and Torreira's putting in a shift, but I think that's a midfield that gets bossed by a number of clubs at this stage. Maybe down the road when Guendouzi is more developed.

I have to think Emery's going to look to add a part or two to the midfield as well. The problem I have is whether or not they have the money to do everything, and if they don't, does Emery have 2 or 3 more windows to do what they need?

Where they've run into problems is they tried to do everything at once, and that left the budget pretty limited for the back line. If they only have 60 or 70 to spend, that dries up pretty fast (especially when you consider they're not getting a whole lot for some of the parts they might want to sell).
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
61,956
8,524
France
70 is well enough when you spend intelligently. Which is a thing very much lacking among many EPL teams. When you get Guendouzi for peanuts, you can get some pretty good defensemen on the cheap (Issa Diop for instance as bought on the cheap).
 

phisherman

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
3,322
1,039
Arsenal looked bad because they had Elneny starting.

Bad move on Emery's part. I will be less worried when Xhaka and Torreira are starting again.
 

Il Mediano

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
1,837
690
70 is well enough when you spend intelligently. Which is a thing very much lacking among many EPL teams. When you get Guendouzi for peanuts, you can get some pretty good defensemen on the cheap (Issa Diop for instance as bought on the cheap).

Yes, I was just having a debate with my friend of mine about fullbacks. He was of the opinion that Roma couldn't afford anyone who'd be a noticeable upgrade over what we have in place.

I pointed to Tagliofico being a 25 year old in the Argentinian league being brought over for 4m by Ajax. That player is now on the radar of Europe's elite. That guy has an italian passport , and is an absolute horse. Definitely worth a 4m dollar investment , imo. We've spent far more for far less (Bruno Peres comes to mind).

People need to realize that scouting/transfer business is still a supremely flawed operation within football. Some clubs are really good at it , but some are horrendous. Genuinely horrendous to a baffling degree. The super rich teams essentially rely on the minnows to do the scouting for them , and money is wasted like no other industry.

70 million can definitely, definitely get quality players.

What is true, however, is that the prices of players in their prime (that people are more familiar with , and provide instant gratification - if they work out) definitely make fans feel like their club isn't spending enough money. Everyone sees what Van Djik did for Liverpool , but ignores the work Klopp (and Michael Edwards - super underrated, btw) did leading up to that addition.

Arsenal definitely needs to bring in new faces , but they also need to get rid of a lot of players (imo) and fix their wage structure/policy (ineptitude) of allowing player's contracts to wind down.
 
Last edited:

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
61,956
8,524
France
PSG is also very guilty of that, I've said it for years.
It's even more ridiculous with them since they face young talented players all season long and yet would rather pay top money for foreign players who aren't any better. Who would pick Kehrer over Diop for instance? At best they're comparable. Price isn't however.
Why wouldn't you buy Mbappe two years ago? Or Dembele when he was with Rennes? PSG would have spent 40M max and would have that insane duo.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Stray Wasp

phisherman

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
3,322
1,039
It's because of the risk involved in developing players while having the expectations of winning trophies.

Some managers are too lazy to develop players and rather go for a "sure thing".
 

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
1,713
La Plata, Maryland
I think you know as well as anyone else that it's easy to say that 70 can get it done. But reality is much harder. For every Andy Robertson or other cheap buy that a bigger club gets, there are countless who get farmed out or passed over and never make the grade. There's a reason you can come up with a list of countless numbers of top prospects. Many just won't make the grade. The trouble with some of those buys for a club is if they don't work out, they might not have the same outlay to replace the player.

Sure, in a perfect world, they'll hit on everything they buy, but in reality, it won't. If Arsenal use 70 and buy 5-6 players, they might not see that type of cash again for a few windows, and if a bunch of them fail, the manager who bought them is going to get sacked.

Emery, and Arsenal, need players now. The further they move down the table, the further they get from a consistent CL spot (they still have a good chance this season), the tougher it is to reclaim it without spending accordingly or years in the wilderness.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
61,956
8,524
France
Who talks about prospects
Issa Diop wasn't a prospect when West Ham signed him. You think he doesn't start for Arsenal?
Kante wasn't a prospect when Leicester signed him. Heck, OM offered too little money but they wanted him. You think he doesn't start for Arsenal?

Arsenal can send 3 or 4 players and get 50M out of it (that's reasonnable).
Then they can buy 5 to 6 quality players with those 120 with EASE.
 

Cassano

Registered User
Aug 31, 2013
25,610
3,818
GTA
Who talks about prospects
Issa Diop wasn't a prospect when West Ham signed him. You think he doesn't start for Arsenal?
Kante wasn't a prospect when Leicester signed him. Heck, OM offered too little money but they wanted him. You think he doesn't start for Arsenal?

Arsenal can send 3 or 4 players and get 50M out of it (that's reasonnable).
Then they can buy 5 to 6 quality players with those 120 with EASE.
Smart buys?

RUdPyQP.jpg
 

Il Mediano

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
1,837
690
I think you know as well as anyone else that it's easy to say that 70 can get it done.

Arsenal spent what last summer? 70-80 million?

Torriera - hit
Leno- hit
Sokratis- hit
Guendouzi - hit
Lichsteiner - free and who cares

There's a reason you can come up with a list of countless numbers of top prospects.

No one said you have to exclusively spend the cash on prospects. I referenced a 25 year old leftback as good value for money.

Emery, and Arsenal, need players now. The further they move down the table, the further they get from a consistent CL spot (they still have a good chance this season), the tougher it is to reclaim it without spending accordingly or years in the wilderness.

They were in the wilderness before Emery arrived. What they need to do is to build the roster correctly , and that means they need to get rid of some guys , get younger , fix their wage structure , and back Emery.

There is no quick fix for Arsenal if they genuinely want to become contenders again. If they want to be the kings of the top-4 trophy again , they can try band-aid solutions like you're suggesting. They simply don't have the money (or won't spend it at least) to avoid having a long term plan.

If you want the blueprint , Klopp and Liverpool have provided it for you already. That sh** took time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: S E P H

phisherman

Registered User
Apr 17, 2015
3,322
1,039
Arsenal spent what last summer? 70-80 million?

Torriera - hit
Leno- hit
Sokratis- hit
Guendouzi - hit
Lichsteiner - free and who cares



No one said you have to exclusively spend the cash on prospects. I referenced a 25 year old leftback as good value for money.



They were in the wilderness before Emery arrived. What they need to do is to build the roster correctly , and that means they need to get rid of some guys , get younger , fix their wage structure , and back Emery.

There is no quick fix for Arsenal if they genuinely want to become contenders again. If they want to be the kings of the top-4 trophy again , they can try band-aid solutions like you're suggesting. They simply don't have the money (or won't spend it at least) to avoid having a long term plan.

If you want the blueprint , Klopp and Liverpool have provided it for you already. That sh** took time.

Which is exactly what they are doing. Arsenal know this will take time and it seems Emery has full backing to build the squad that he likes. They will shed A LOT of wages this summer which will help them with their signings.
 

Evilo

Registered User
Mar 17, 2002
61,956
8,524
France
Yes, that's weird since Liverpool became relevant again by making low profile purchases and most of all having a great coach.
Think Arsenal can't buy a Wijnaldum, Robertson, Mane, Salah, Firmino, sign Milner on a free?
Any team can do that. It's about finding pieces that fit, and most of all, fit with the coach's plan.
 

Il Mediano

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
1,837
690
Not to mention the complete dead weight he had to get out of that club. How Rodgers (or whoever made the decision) thought Balotelli was a good idea is beyond me. I couldn't think of a worse fit for Liverpool if I tried.

That's what bad planning and having a lack of vision can do to you , though. When you're constantly trying to band-aid things , you just end up spinning your tires and wasting cash.

I had Arsenal as the 6th best team coming into this season. For me , Emery's exceeded expectations even if they fall out of top 4.

And even if they make top 4 this year , I would still continue down the path of rebuilding properly as if I hadn't made it. Maybe that means you can enter the market for one or two higher quality players , but they have to be young , imo.

Don't go get some 28 year old "star" just because you made CL.
 

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Yes, that's weird since Liverpool became relevant again by making low profile purchases and most of all having a great coach.
Think Arsenal can't buy a Wijnaldum, Robertson, Mane, Salah, Firmino, sign Milner on a free?
Any team can do that. It's about finding pieces that fit, and most of all, fit with the coach's plan.
Liverpool won't sell to them I wager.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robertmac43

YNWA14

Onbreekbaar
Dec 29, 2010
34,543
2,560
Not to mention the complete dead weight he had to get out of that club. How Rodgers (or whoever made the decision) thought Balotelli was a good idea is beyond me. I couldn't think of a worse fit for Liverpool if I tried.

Rodgers' time at Liverpool is marred by the horrendous transfers. The sad part of that little fiasco ended up being that Balotelli was a panic signing because Sanchez snubbed us for Arsenal. There didn't seem to be any plan in place at all during that time to compensate for losing guys like Suarez or Sterling. A situation made all the worse by Gerrard's slip and subsequent decline and eventual departure. I thought Rodgers did a lot of good but the power struggle with the board for signings and so on was difficult, as well as Sturridge turning to glass. It was a step a bit too early for him methinks, because as a coach he was quite good.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Il Mediano

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
1,713
La Plata, Maryland
I mean, you're talking like Mane, Gini, Salah and Firmino went for peanuts. They didn't. They went for 25+ a pop. That's their entire budget on two or three, and then some in one window.

The only low margin purchases Liverpool did were Milner (Free), Matip (Free) and Robertson. The first two, they had to pay absurd salary and pretty much give a better opportunity to get done.

I'm not saying they can't go out and get value for the money, they certainly can, but it's not as easy to say they can go out and buy 60 million of players (more likely what they'll have to spend) without saying who they could have bought in 20-20. I agree with your principal, that there is value to be found, but what's to say they're going to be the ones to find it? Who is actually even in charge of getting value in transfers?

(I also would hesitate to say that some of those 'hits' are hits yet. There's a lot left to prove that some of them can get better, or can do it more than one season.)

I also think there's something to be argued that Klopp and Edwards now have a bit of a track record to where if Fabinho failed, they're not getting sacked. If Keita doesn't come good, Klopp isn't getting sacked. Could Emery afford to pay 30-35 million for a player, have him flop, and Arsenal be able to pay for another just like it? Would Emery have the rope to miss the CL, and not succeed with transfers?
 

Il Mediano

Registered User
Feb 24, 2018
1,837
690
I don't think Emery's on Klopp's level , but I rate him very highly. Tactically astute , versatile, develops well , has a clear/modern ethos etc.

The jury may be out based on his Premier League resume (though, I'd consider this season a definite win for him) , but his career speaks for itself. He's in the upper echelon , for me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robertmac43

Chimaera

same ol' Caps
Feb 4, 2004
30,888
1,713
La Plata, Maryland
I mean, if you think Leno, Sokratis and either Guendouzi or Torreira get into Liverpool, Spurs or City's 11, I can't really help you. I think they're solid players, but all have questions for me going forward. Maybe Leno for Lloris because he's been awful at times.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->