Speculation: Episode IV: Revenge of the Cleary

FabricDetails

I know enough to know I know nothing
Mar 30, 2009
7,913
3,740
I am hope Maltby is a capable scout, but at the same time I don't think our pro scouts have done that great of a job lately.

Yeah seriously. I was just thinking the other day do they have anybody doing any research on players with 3-5 years of NHL experience looking for a better situation to break out in their careers? We got young prospects, we have aged veterans, obviously players in their prime are damn near impossible to acquire.
 

Dotter

THE ATHLETIC IS GARBAGE
Jul 2, 2014
8,436
2,878
Imprisonment, TN
goo.gl
I think Cleary wants to be a coach. If he re-signs and can't skate with GR, wouldn't be surprised to see him pry his way into being a player-coach in the AHL and try to work his way up.

Also, that handshake reference is embarrassing and I'm not sure why the hell people keep bringing it up. Sounds like circumvention.

Who cares? It's not like Larkin having a handshake agreement with BUF to go play with his good friend in a few years.

It's like having a handshake agreement with Chris Pronger or Nikolai Khabibulin. Cleary is probably being groomed for an internal role. It's not a big deal.
 

19 for president

Registered User
Apr 28, 2002
2,829
939
Yeah I think Fischer and Drapes seem to be pretty good at their jobs. Drapes has helped snag us some good players and Fischer has really helped the turn around in GR over the past 5 years or so. We know Cheli is a good mentor via the work he did with Fischer and Kronner. Malts is the only one I question due to our questionable pro scouting, but even then we don't know how much of the Weiss/Legwand/Richards/Zids/Green/Tootoo decisions were his.
 

Bench

3 is a good start
Aug 14, 2011
21,200
14,889
crease
Who cares? It's not like Larkin having a handshake agreement with BUF to go play with his good friend in a few years.

It's like having a handshake agreement with Chris Pronger or Nikolai Khabibulin. Cleary is probably being groomed for an internal role. It's not a big deal.

You're misunderstanding. He's talking about the handshake agreement that Holland made to Cleary when he signed a shorter deal for Detroit instead of Philadelphia. Holland couldn't fit Cleary under the cap that Philly was going to offer, so he got a 1 year, smaller deal. Then another. And another. These "handshake" deals kept being given to Cleary even though the staff had no intention of playing him in the NHL. It's been referenced by the Wings brass every single time they sign Dan Cleary. It's insane they keep talking about it.

That's cap circumvention. If it was an actually good player with actual cap savings, the NHL would have stepped in. But it's Dan Cleary on the Red Wings, who are only hurting themselves, so nobody spent any time worrying about it. The fact that the Wings don't even hide the fact they circumvented the salary cap is amusing. These kinds of wink wink nudge nudge deals may happen all the time, but they aren't so publicly on display and difficult to justify.
 

Retire91

Stevey Y you our Guy
May 31, 2010
6,135
1,563
Honestly as sour as I was about cleary getting resigned over and over when there was nothing he had to offer being in the AHL could be great for the team. I always got the impression he was a very popular guy to have around and its one of the reasons he was on the team for so long. Not his fault Holland kept signing him and Babcock kept playing him like a first liner.

Purely as a mentor he could be a big factor for up and coming wings and I would think the influence is different as a player then just as a coach or something. The guy loves being around hockey and if this works for him then I think eveyone is happy.
 

AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
Sponsor
Dec 10, 2012
39,500
17,967
Not sure if this is where you guys do this kind of talk, but I was curious about what you guys think about Kyle Quincey. A couple guys on the Wild board want to sign him for 3.5-4.5/yr if we end up trading two defensemen this summer.

What do you guys think he should be paid? What kind of player is he? What are his strengths and his deficiencies?
 

Ezekial

Cheap Pizza, Bad Hockey
Sponsor
Nov 22, 2015
22,377
14,884
Chicago
Not sure if this is where you guys do this kind of talk, but I was curious about what you guys think about Kyle Quincey. A couple guys on the Wild board want to sign him for 3.5-4.5/yr if we end up trading two defensemen this summer.

What do you guys think he should be paid? What kind of player is he? What are his strengths and his deficiencies?

He's a pretty solid defensive defenseman, dude skates about 5 miles an hour though. I'd rather have Quincey over Ericsson by a country mile.
 

Mount Suribachi

Registered User
Nov 15, 2013
4,247
1,052
England
Not sure if this is where you guys do this kind of talk, but I was curious about what you guys think about Kyle Quincey. A couple guys on the Wild board want to sign him for 3.5-4.5/yr if we end up trading two defensemen this summer.

What do you guys think he should be paid? What kind of player is he? What are his strengths and his deficiencies?

He's nowhere near as bad as some on this board make out - he was bad in 2013 when he was paired with Brendan Smith, they were truly awful together. But since then he's been a solid 2nd pair defensive D-man. He plays with a bit of snarl, can eat minutes, just don't expect him to be making crisp tape to tape passes to exit the zone.

You need to bear in mind when reading the criticism of how much he sucks that some on this board have never forgiven Ken Holland for using a 1st to acquire a player he had previously given away on waivers (when he was an unpromising 8th defenceman).
 

Jon Cusack

Registered User
Oct 28, 2011
288
83
I would say Quincey is an okay defender but he cant move the puck very well. I would much rather him over Ericsson but to me he's still a bottom pair defender and not worth the amount of money he will receive.
 

golffuul

Registered User
Oct 24, 2011
4,923
2,784
Not sure if this is where you guys do this kind of talk, but I was curious about what you guys think about Kyle Quincey. A couple guys on the Wild board want to sign him for 3.5-4.5/yr if we end up trading two defensemen this summer.

What do you guys think he should be paid? What kind of player is he? What are his strengths and his deficiencies?

Solid #4 defender and should be paid accordingly.
 

AKL

Danila Yurov Fan Club President
Sponsor
Dec 10, 2012
39,500
17,967
Thanks for all the responses guys, I appreciate it.
 

Reddwit

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
7,696
3,418
Draper also pushed hard on signing Coreau. Drapes seems to have an interesting feel for talent in terms of a couple of the names we have heard. I hope it is starting to get his voice heard more at the table at the draft and in their scouting meetings.

Fischer and Draper seem to have significantly bigger jobs in terms of development and talent evaluation. Chelios does this kind of stuff too or did, not really sure what his role really is at this point.

I am hope Maltby is a capable scout, but at the same time I don't think our pro scouts have done that great of a job lately.

I think thats just how it is with scouts. Screw NHL talent or hockey history or what-have-you. Who is our Scouting Director? I remember Tyler Wright as a CBJ. He was, ironically, kind of like a Draper for the Jackets. There's probably just a type of person that has some hockey knowledge but also a unique take on body language that translates to talent.

Like...one of our most legendary scouts was a fishing guide while looking like he could be a Swedish James Bond.
 

Reddwit

Registered User
Feb 4, 2016
7,696
3,418
You're misunderstanding. He's talking about the handshake agreement that Holland made to Cleary when he signed a shorter deal for Detroit instead of Philadelphia. Holland couldn't fit Cleary under the cap that Philly was going to offer, so he got a 1 year, smaller deal. Then another. And another. These "handshake" deals kept being given to Cleary even though the staff had no intention of playing him in the NHL. It's been referenced by the Wings brass every single time they sign Dan Cleary. It's insane they keep talking about it.

That's cap circumvention. If it was an actually good player with actual cap savings, the NHL would have stepped in. But it's Dan Cleary on the Red Wings, who are only hurting themselves, so nobody spent any time worrying about it. The fact that the Wings don't even hide the fact they circumvented the salary cap is amusing. These kinds of wink wink nudge nudge deals may happen all the time, but they aren't so publicly on display and difficult to justify.

Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks for clearing that up, Benchman.

Not sure if this is where you guys do this kind of talk, but I was curious about what you guys think about Kyle Quincey. A couple guys on the Wild board want to sign him for 3.5-4.5/yr if we end up trading two defensemen this summer.

What do you guys think he should be paid? What kind of player is he? What are his strengths and his deficiencies?

He's nowhere near as bad as some on this board make out - he was bad in 2013 when he was paired with Brendan Smith, they were truly awful together. But since then he's been a solid 2nd pair defensive D-man. He plays with a bit of snarl, can eat minutes, just don't expect him to be making crisp tape to tape passes to exit the zone.

You need to bear in mind when reading the criticism of how much he sucks that some on this board have never forgiven Ken Holland for using a 1st to acquire a player he had previously given away on waivers (when he was an unpromising 8th defenceman).

I would say Quincey is an okay defender but he cant move the puck very well. I would much rather him over Ericsson but to me he's still a bottom pair defender and not worth the amount of money he will receive.

Solid #4 defender and should be paid accordingly.

Just reinforcing this opinion, I guess. Quince is a solid #4. When he was brought to the Wings, had all things remained the same, he actually would have been a great replacement for Brad Stuart, based on what he is now.

I would say he is definitely worth $4M and you'll like him at that price if you play him as your bona fide #4. He's fine in a pinch as a #2/3 for injuries, and he's a luxury at #4/5.

I actually think a lot of us would be bummed to see Quincey go somewhere else for $4M a year if we had a better top 3, but we don't. Detroit has so many guys playing above their paygrade it makes them all look worse, including Quincey. In a vacuum, though, I'm very interested in how Q's career goes from here. Wouldn't be surprised to see his next team very happy with what should be a modest signing.
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad

-->