Speculation: Episode IV: Revenge of the Cleary

[Pavels Dog]

The one argument for the allure of young players toughing it out in Detroit, like Nyquist had to do, waiting for his chance, is that once you're in the club... holy hell are you IN THE CLUB.

Ericsson, Abby getting lifetime deals, too. Outsiders get cut loose, but the boys who have paid their dues, they get their return investment.

So if you're a good person who works hard during a long career for Detroit, doesn't get into anything bad off the ice, and want to stay with the organization and help out; you get the chance to?

Wow, that's outrageous.

 

[njx9]

Ya I mean who cares if he is a waste of cap space and a roster spot? Its not like holland would use it on anyone of importance anyways.

The cap space argument is silly, Cleary's cap hit is negligible and wouldn't prevent the Wings from signing any FA they wanted. And the roster spot is a veteran spot in the A. Complaining about Cleary using it is like complaining about Miele or Tangradi being on the roster. Neither are ever going to be more than desperate situation call ups, but they're down there to help the kids. *shrug* This seems like a pretty perfect use of Cleary the (reputedly) smart veteran leader, without having to worry about Cleary the terrible, slow hockey player.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

So if you're a good person who works hard during a long career for Detroit, doesn't get into anything bad off the ice, and want to stay with the organization and help out; you get the chance to?

Wow, that's outrageous.

It's not outrageous, and I understand that it's done by a lot of teams. But this league is extremely competitive and margins to win are razor thin. They should be hiring the absolute best qualified candidates available for these jobs.

Holland, Illitch and others in the Red Wings organization have plenty of connections in the hockey and business world. There are other ways to help players post-career other than giving them jobs in scouting, player development.

Most of the time it may not be an issue. It's just that with Holland the loyalty thing sometimes gets carried to the extreme. Except of course when one of the greatest Red Wings of all time happens to be interested in the GM job. Then it's all business.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Because I called it a tragedy. Or something.


Cleary may be a great coach one day, who knows. But as a player he's definitely a good example of Holland overdoing the loyalty and hurting the team.

He would be playing in GR. So what?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

He would be playing in GR. So what?

The initial post of mine that you made a sarcastic reply to was about Cleary being guaranteed a job with the Red Wings if he retired.

I didn't say anything about him playing again in Grand Rapids if this current rumor is true. My statement about him being an example of overdoing loyalty was in reference to the past debacles, not this current situation.

If you're intent on bickering with me, can we at least stick to one topic?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

No need to be defensive about it. You acted like what they were currently doing with Cleary was somehow negative. I don't see it.

 

[Heaton]

Just imagine if Cleary becomes a head coach for the wings a few years from now. The thought actually terrifies me

Why does that terrify you?

 

[TheOtherOne]

Why does that terrify you?

Because he was overpaid and overused at the end of his athletic career, therefore we can draw the reasonable conclusion that everything he ever touches from now on will turn to ****.

I guess.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

No need to be defensive about it. You acted like what they were currently doing with Cleary was somehow negative. I don't see it.

Not defensive actually. I'm just trying to understand what your snarky comments are about. And shouldn't you be debating the content of my posts and not commenting about me personally?

I've said nothing about what they're doing with Cleary regarding this new contract. I made a comment about the Red Wings Country Club and you took it and ran from there.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

I guess to me the problem is that a huge issue for the organization is the country club atmosphere. If Cleary is offered another NHL contract, whether it's buried or not, simply prolongs and extenuates our problems. Cleary is like the figure head of everything wrong with 2010's Red Wings.

 

[Bench]

So if you're a good person who works hard during a long career for Detroit, doesn't get into anything bad off the ice, and want to stay with the organization and help out; you get the chance to?

Wow, that's outrageous.

Depends. Sometimes that's the right call. Sometimes not. The best available person isn't always the one you're most familiar with. It's a very competitive industry. The idea that the best possible candidates always come from within is... dubious.

 

[Retire91]

He is like that fart at a party that just won't dissipate. If you go out on the balcony and come back in you can still smell it.

 

[TCNorthstars]

He is like that fart at a party that just won't dissipate. If you go out on the balcony and come back in you can still smell it.

Whoever smelt it dealt it!

 

[Pavels Dog]

Depends. Sometimes that's the right call. Sometimes not. The best available person isn't always the one you're most familiar with. It's a very competitive industry. The idea that the best possible candidates always come from within is... dubious.

True but we rarely put ex-Wings into major positions. We've hired many great people from outside too.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Depends. Sometimes that's the right call. Sometimes not. The best available person isn't always the one you're most familiar with. It's a very competitive industry. The idea that the best possible candidates always come from within is... dubious.

How many people are actually on the Wings management payroll, and how many of them are former Red Wings players?

I don't think the idea that the best candidates come from within is entirely there.

 

[Bench]

How many people are actually on the Wings management payroll, and how many of them are former Red Wings players?

34 of them are on the payroll with 22 being former Wings.

These numbers are entirely made up, though.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

How many people are actually on the Wings management payroll, and how many of them are former Red Wings players?

I don't think the idea that the best candidates come from within is entirely there.

I was curious about that too. In Hockey Ops it looks like they have 5 former players, soon to be 6 with Cleary. Draper, Fischer, Chelios, Mark Howe, and Maltby.

Then three guys who worked for the Adirondack Wings for years. And one guy who was a teammate of Holland's.

The total number of jobs is trickier because some require specialized degrees and experience that a hockey player wouldn't have. You probably wouldn't hire Bertuzzi as team dentist. But it's roughly 27 spots.

That's of course not including Holland himself.

So currently 5 out of 27 spots in hockey ops are filled by former Wings players, 3 more are guys promoted from the AHL Wings, and 1 is an old teammate of Kenny's.

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=44061

 

[Pavels Dog]

I was curious about that too. In Hockey Ops it looks like they have 5 former players, soon to be 6 with Cleary. Draper, Fischer, Chelios, Mark Howe, and Maltby.

Then three guys who worked for the Adirondack Wings for years. And one guy who was a teammate of Holland's.

The total number of jobs is trickier because some require specialized degrees and experience that a hockey player wouldn't have. You probably wouldn't hire Bertuzzi as team dentist. But it's roughly 27 spots.

That's of course not including Holland himself.

So currently 5 out of 27 spots in hockey ops are filled by former Wings players, 3 more are guys promoted from the AHL Wings, and 1 is an old teammate of Kenny's.

http://redwings.nhl.com/club/page.htm?id=44061

In comparison 99% of people in my workplace got their job because they had a relative or long-time friend helping them get their foot in the door.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

In comparison 99% of people in my workplace got their job because they had a relative or long-time friend helping them get their foot in the door.

Do you work at a family restaurant?

Seriously though, networking is how most people get their jobs. It's not really surprising and wouldn't give me pause if not for Kenny's penchant for being loyal to a fault.

I think it's typical of teams around the league to hire that way, but that doesn't mean it makes for the best franchise. Does Maltby really have a knack for evaluating young talent that makes him the best choice for scout in the US and Canada? As a former Wings player will he be too deferential to his GM? I honestly don't know.

According to Hockey Ops page his input is used in evaluating potential trades and free agent acquisitions. Whether it's on him or Kenny or both that's not exactly a stellar track record for the last several seasons.

One of the things I liked about Babcock is his willingness to bring in new people with new ideas from all levels of hockey.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Do you work at a family restaurant?

Seriously though, networking is how most people get their jobs. It's not really surprising and wouldn't give me pause if not for Kenny's penchant for being loyal to a fault.

I think it's typical of teams around the league to hire that way, but that doesn't mean it makes for the best franchise. Does Maltby really have a knack for evaluating young talent that makes him the best choice for scout in the US and Canada? As a former Wings player will he be too deferential to his GM? I honestly don't know.

According to Hockey Ops page his input is used in evaluating potential trades and free agent acquisitions. Whether it's on him or Kenny or both that's not exactly a stellar track record for the last several seasons.

One of the things I liked about Babcock is his willingness to bring in new people with new ideas from all levels of hockey.

Well he scored 50 goals in junior.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Well he scored 50 goals in junior.

Well played.

 

[Frk It]

Do you work at a family restaurant?

Seriously though, networking is how most people get their jobs. It's not really surprising and wouldn't give me pause if not for Kenny's penchant for being loyal to a fault.

I think it's typical of teams around the league to hire that way, but that doesn't mean it makes for the best franchise. Does Maltby really have a knack for evaluating young talent that makes him the best choice for scout in the US and Canada? As a former Wings player will he be too deferential to his GM? I honestly don't know.

According to Hockey Ops page his input is used in evaluating potential trades and free agent acquisitions. Whether it's on him or Kenny or both that's not exactly a stellar track record for the last several seasons.

One of the things I liked about Babcock is his willingness to bring in new people with new ideas from all levels of hockey.

Draper had a big hand in drafting Tyler Bertuzzi. Pick looks pretty good so far.

Maltby is listed as a Pro Scout, so I think he scouts pro players. I mean, guy played 1,000 games in the NHL.

 

[Ezekial]

Yea, Maltby doesn't scout junior players.

IE when he went to St. Louis in round one.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Draper had a big hand in drafting Tyler Bertuzzi. Pick looks pretty good so far.

Maltby is listed as a Pro Scout, so I think he scouts pro players. I mean, guy played 1,000 games in the NHL.

Draper also pushed hard on signing Coreau. Drapes seems to have an interesting feel for talent in terms of a couple of the names we have heard. I hope it is starting to get his voice heard more at the table at the draft and in their scouting meetings.

Fischer and Draper seem to have significantly bigger jobs in terms of development and talent evaluation. Chelios does this kind of stuff too or did, not really sure what his role really is at this point.

I am hope Maltby is a capable scout, but at the same time I don't think our pro scouts have done that great of a job lately.

 

[FabricDetails]

Is that verbal agreement about money more than duration? If so, I think that means he'll be in GR a looooooong time.