Enver Lisin to Russia

[Habsfan18]

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=186427&hubname=nhl



sorry if it's been posted but I looked quickly and didn't see it.

Click to read more...

 

[NashisCash]

Ya before you go using your rolly eyes faces he had a clause in his contract that said he could go back. How is this any different from Malkin or Ovechkin leaving for North America? Ya, it's not, so lose the bias.

 

[Habsfan18]

Ya before you go using your rolly eyes faces he had a clause in his contract that said he could go back. How is this any different from Malkin or Ovechkin leaving for North America? Ya, it's not, so lose the bias.

lose the bias? what the hell are you talking about?

The guy only had 2 points in 16 or so games and felt he was too good for the AHL so he had to go back home? That deserves a imo.

And if he had a clause in his contract why did he get suspended by the team for refusing to report? Explain that one.

 

[LeafDangler]

Ya before you go using your rolly eyes faces he had a clause in his contract that said he could go back. How is this any different from Malkin or Ovechkin leaving for North America? Ya, it's not, so lose the bias.

I don't know what you're talking about but the Coyotes suspended him for not reporting. That doesn't sound like a contract clause to me.

 

[Habsfan18]

I don't know what you're talking about but the Coyotes suspended him for not reporting. That doesn't sound like a contract clause to me.

exactly.

"It says in your clause that you may return to Russia, so for returning to Russia we will suspend you."

 

[LeafDangler]

Here is the link where Barnett says how dissapointed he is and that they expected him to report to the AHL. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=186427&hubname=nhl
All I can say is that this seems to me like poor assett management by teams. First Ottawa with Kaigodorov (sp?) and now Phoenix with Lisin. If you bring a guy in from you better be ready to keep him. There was already a precedent for this type of thing witht he Ottawa situation. Barnett should have known better.

Edit: I see the link was already posted above

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

I don't know what you're talking about but the Coyotes suspended him for not reporting. That doesn't sound like a contract clause to me.

By suspending him, he doesn't count against the cap. It's why Ottawa did it with Kaigorodov and why Phoenix has done it here.

There was probably a clause, but they wanted to see if he'd go down anyway.

 

[LeafDangler]

By suspending him, he doesn't count against the cap. It's why Ottawa did it with Kaigorodov and why Phoenix has done it here.

There was probably a clause, but they wanted to see if he'd go down anyway.

Thanks for pointing that out. I wasn;t sure how those things worked.

 

[Habsfan18]

By suspending him, he doesn't count against the cap. It's why Ottawa did it with Kaigorodov and why Phoenix has done it here.

There was probably a clause, but they wanted to see if he'd go down anyway.

We don't know if there is a clause.

 

[Blind Gardien]

I dunno how much leeway there is in an actual SPC for a "clause" about going home. But presumably they could have a separate agreement, verbal or otherwise, about what would happen if he couldn't stick with the Coyotes. IMO the only potentially goofy thing going on here is if the Coyotes get too worked up about it. Sounds like Lisin had it in *his* mind all along that he was going back if he got sent down, and I don't really understand how it could have come as a surprise to the Coyotes, given that it was widely bandied about pretty much all season that that was Lisin's plan. And who could blame him... much nicer money - and a higher level of competition and comfort - in the RSL, so why not go? If the Coyotes could stop and think about it and be supportive of what really is a pretty logical decision, then you'd think they'd do themselves more good in the longrun instead of complaining?

 

[Sinurgy]

http://hfboards.com/showthread.php?t=316729

slitty seems to be the one in the know

 

[Jacob]

Holy moly, I've never seen a +/- so bad.

 

[NashisCash]

lose the bias? what the hell are you talking about?

The guy only had 2 points in 16 or so games and felt he was too good for the AHL so he had to go back home? That deserves a imo.

And if he had a clause in his contract why did he get suspended by the team for refusing to report? Explain that one.

Who exactly said he was too good? Why would anyone want to ride a bus in the AHL when they could make a very nice salary AT HOME.

And ya, from what I've read on the Coyotes board he did have a clause that allows him to leave the team if he gets demoted.

Too good etc... there is your bias. If this was a Canadian player leaving a Russian squad I'm sure you would have no problem with it. Ovechkin had a clause in his contract that allowed him to leave the team that invested money in him, that he grew up playing for. Have you got a problem with that?

 

[Slitty]

By suspending him, he doesn't count against the cap. It's why Ottawa did it with Kaigorodov and why Phoenix has done it here.

There was probably a clause, but they wanted to see if he'd go down anyway.

According to Lisin's agent about a week ago there was indeed a clause, just like there was a clause with both Kaigorodov and Khomitsky. Needless to say all three players went back and are now officially suspended... albeit Khomitsky violated the terms of his clause due to family reasons - but unlike Kaigorodov, nonetheless parted with the Stars on good terms.

 

[Slitty]

I dunno how much leeway there is in an actual SPC for a "clause" about going home. But presumably they could have a separate agreement, verbal or otherwise, about what would happen if he couldn't stick with the Coyotes. IMO the only potentially goofy thing going on here is if the Coyotes get too worked up about it. Sounds like Lisin had it in *his* mind all along that he was going back if he got sent down, and I don't really understand how it could have come as a surprise to the Coyotes, given that it was widely bandied about pretty much all season that that was Lisin's plan. And who could blame him... much nicer money - and a higher level of competition and comfort - in the RSL, so why not go? If the Coyotes could stop and think about it and be supportive of what really is a pretty logical decision, then you'd think they'd do themselves more good in the longrun instead of complaining?

Lisin's initial reaction to starting the season in the AHL was one of disappointment, yet also one of enthusiasm - as he seemed to really like North American hockey. That combined with the fact that Lisin paid for his own release from Ak Bars and couldn't, or at least shouldn't, have expected to succeed at the NHL level right away leads me to believe that originally there was some intent at playing in North America regardless of league. However, given that there has been an indication that Lisin would return of assigned to the AHL for quite some time, it seems like a classic case of homesickness combined with limited on-ice success mounting up to reverse his dedication to playing in North America.

Here is a link from a slightly different angle:
http://www.rushockey.com/events.php?i=sl&stream=sl_news&id=549

 

[Captain Ron]

By suspending him, he doesn't count against the cap. It's why Ottawa did it with Kaigorodov and why Phoenix has done it here.

Just to clear this up......He would not have counted against the cap anyway. Once he was officially assigned to his AHL affiliate he no longer counted against the cap.

 

[ShootThePuckCoyotes]

OK, Slitty I have a question. Do you think he will ever come back to the Coyotes? I am just curious because someone just mentioned on the Yotes board that when players do this they rarely do.

What is your gut feeling? Thanks for all the updates and such. Please keep us posted on anything else you hear.

 

[Souffle]

According to Lisin's agent about a week ago there was indeed a clause, just like there was a clause with both Kaigorodov and Khomitsky. Needless to say all three players went back and are now officially suspended... albeit Khomitsky violated the terms of his clause due to family reasons - but unlike Kaigorodov, nonetheless parted with the Stars on good terms.

It seems strange. I'm trying to figure out how those clauses work. If it allows a player to return to Russia, then why suspend him for doing exactly that? Maybe it's a money thing, so that they don't have to pay a suspended player? But then, why wouldn't the escape clause also allow the team to not pay the player if he chooses to exercise his right to leave?

I'm not trying to criticize Lisin's decision, as posters have pointed out that's it's likely in his best interest to go back (I probably would in the circumstances). But I'm just puzzled by the mechanics of an escape clause that still allows a team to suspend a player for using it, or at least I can't figure out why a team would agree to that clause and then act all indignant when a player invokes it. It's far from a perfect analogy, but it strikes me as sort of similar to suspending a player for refusing to waive his NTC, and then issuing official statements about how the team feels let down.

Anyway, that -18 in 17 games is astounding.

 

[Slitty]

OK, Slitty I have a question. Do you think he will ever come back to the Coyotes? I am just curious because someone just mentioned on the Yotes board that when players do this they rarely do.

What is your gut feeling? Thanks for all the updates and such. Please keep us posted on anything else you hear.

I don't think even Enver himself knows the answer to that just yet. Phoenix's management promising to call him back up in January once they got a chance to move a vetran in order to create roster space and Lisin leaving anyways leads me to believe that it wasn't a simple matter of not wanting to play in the AHL; it was a deeper psychological issue. My gut feeling as you put it is that Lisin was either truly homesick or had such low confidence after a poor statistical performance, decreasing icetime, and eventually a demotion to the AHL - that it induced a notion that he simply didn't have what it takes to ever succeed in the NHL. Maybe it was a combination of both, with the financial aspect of a low AHL salary mixed in as well: we don't know and Lisin isn't likely to openly tell us either. At the present moment Lisin is intent on playing in the RSL to the point of pondering why he ever left at all. However, he is still very young. As he matures and hopefully emerges as an elite RSL player, he may very well overcome whatever it was that forced him to leave and give the AHL another go.

 

[Slitty]

It seems strange. I'm trying to figure out how those clauses work. If it allows a player to return to Russia, then why suspend him for doing exactly that? Maybe it's a money thing, so that they don't have to pay a suspended player? But then, why wouldn't the escape clause also allow the team to not pay the player if he chooses to exercise his right to leave?

I'm not trying to criticize Lisin's decision, as posters have pointed out that's it's likely in his best interest to go back (I probably would in the circumstances). But I'm just puzzled by the mechanics of an escape clause that still allows a team to suspend a player for using it, or at least I can't figure out why a team would agree to that clause and then act all indignant when a player invokes it. It's far from a perfect analogy, but it strikes me as sort of similar to suspending a player for refusing to waive his NTC, and then issuing official statements about how the team feels let down.

Anyway, that -18 in 17 games is astounding.

Quite frankly, I am almost completely oblivious to the mechanics of such clauses. I know that Khomitsky was suspended due to leaving the AHL before the date he was "allowed" to leave under his clause. Kaigorodov's apparent contractual clause was that he could leave the instant he got sent down to the AHL, which he did and got suspended for. I am not sure as to the specifics of Lisin's clause at this moment in time, but would assume that suspending a player does have some sort of financial benefits to the team.

I am actually of the opinion that San Antonio is the best place for Lisin's development at this stage of his career. He already has the raw talent (primarily blazing speed) and a skillset (primarily puck-handling at the aforementioned speed); he might as well learn how to utilize it all effectively within the context of the North American game and in an environment where he can be dominant - something that can help him attain the stardom his is potentially capable of. As I posted on the Phoenix board, Lisin's return to Kazan' means he isn't immediately going to receive the pivotal role he would have been playing in the AHL. You must remember that Ak Bars is the best team in Russia, and favoured to become the best team in Europe after the upcoming European Championship. Therefore, quite unfortuneately for Phoenix, its most likely right back to the third line from which he left for Lisin. If he performs extraordinarily or if there is an injury, then he could easily see second line minutes - but even then that is not very much icetime at all considering how heavily AK Bars relies on Zaripov-Zinovjev-Morozov.

 

[kdb209]

Note that once Lisin plays a game for Ak Bars he cannot return to the Coyotes this season without clearing waivers. Once a player plays a game overseas after the start of the NHL season, they must clear waivers before returning to an NHL roster. Technically he could return and play for San Antonio, though.

 

[Kap-the-Head]

Before this NHL season, Lisin was all excited about going to play for Phoenix. Some people, including me, think that he even had burned bridges with Ak Bars, by saying that it is mich better to play for a bottomfeeder in the NHL than for a gold medalist in RSL. And that if he ever got sent to AHL, he would go there with no problems, and bust his a$$ there, trying to comeback to Coyotes. And he was not planning coming back to Russia. Just read his interview for 27th of June.
And now he is saying that it was a mistake coming to NHL at that time
What a freaking clown.

 

[white_tiger]

exactly.

"It says in your clause that you may return to Russia, so for returning to Russia we will suspend you."

They have to suspend him or keep paying him. Also it isn;t lik eteh Yotes are out any extra money. Lisin was paying for his own release from the Russian League.

 

[Heldig]

Disappointed he went back to Russia.

Guess we will find out next summer if the Yotes still have plans for him.

He will either be invited back OR traded OR kept on the suspended list.

 

[GKJ]

Here is the link where Barnett says how dissapointed he is and that they expected him to report to the AHL. http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=186427&hubname=nhl
All I can say is that this seems to me like poor assett management by teams. First Ottawa with Kaigodorov (sp?) and now Phoenix with Lisin. If you bring a guy in from you better be ready to keep him. There was already a precedent for this type of thing witht he Ottawa situation. Barnett should have known better.

Edit: I see the link was already posted above

OK, I am the biggest Barnett basher on the boards, but Barnett signed Lisin to a contract. Part of that contract is to report to the AHL team should you be assigned, if not, you are suspended. Lisin was already there this season. Barnett did nothing wrong. That is what the AHL is for. The Flyers are sending guys up and down all over the place, some of them are from Europe. I don't see them running home every time it happens.


This will just make more teams leery of drafting Russian players. Guys like Kaigorodov and Lisin...if they do things like this...I don't want them on my team.