Entry Draft Thread: Part V

[NotProkofievian]

But that's higher value than using some late round picks on goalies with potential late in the draft, and to be completely honest with you.. the only one I'd want in my net is Bobrovsky. The rest of them are pretty middling pseudo-number 1 goalies.

That's literally all you need. Having a luxury goaltender like Price is like having a gold toilet.

The risk/reward on a goalie prospect in the later rounds of the draft is actually a lot higher than gambling on guys like Samuel Houde and Jack Gorniak who at best at 3rd/4th liners and can be had for next to nothing off free agency every year.

Yeah, but we didn't need to make those picks as we just discussed. Fagemo fell through the draft and there was no need for it. I would agree that we should always be swinging for the fences.

I don't really see the logic of wanting to protect 3-7th round picks from being used on a goalie when, those goalies mentioned above are some, but that doesn't begin to quantify the amount of guys like Talbot and Lack who have been moved for 2nd round picks or more and are complete ass.

If you simply have nothing better than an Houde, then fine, but that's almost never the case.

 

[Mrb1p]

IMO, if you need one, just trade a pick for one that's ready.

I think you're just feeling the spoil of Carey Price.
Ask Philly if theyre happy they spent an early 2nd on Hart.

Without Price, where would this team be, really ? We'd have traded for a guy like Talbot for two 2nd and signed him to a stupid deal and now he'd be on his way out because he actually sucks. Can't win with bad goalies, in fact, Rinne probably cost the Preds a cup a few years ago.

I don't like drafting goalies in the 2nd, because I think they're easier to find, but taking a flyer on a guy like Primeau, in the 7th is a genius move.

 

[Mrb1p]

Philadelphia is maybe a poor example of a team who won't trade a promising young goaltender for scraps. For one, they wont trade a young promising goaltender because they've been without solid goaltending for a long time, and they've learned their lesson. But in the last few years we've seen goaltenders like Bishop, Raanta, Jones moved for a late first or less, Dubnyk for a 3rd, and as alluded to, Bob for a 2nd. If push comes to shove, just trade a pick.

All those goalies suck though, save for Bobrovsky and Dubnyk, and both of those sucked at the time of being acquired.

If all you need is replacement level goaltending to win, why haven't we seen it ? The only one that fits the bill is Niemi.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I think you're just feeling the spoil of Carey Price.
Ask Philly if theyre happy they spent an early 2nd on Hart.

Without Price, where would this team be, really ? We'd have traded for a guy like Talbot for two 2nd and signed him to a stupid deal and now he'd be on his way out because he actually sucks. Can't win with bad goalies, in fact, Rinne probably cost the Preds a cup a few years ago.

I don't like drafting goalies in the 2nd, because I think they're easier to find, but taking a flyer on a guy like Primeau, in the 7th is a genius move.

Carey Price is a dutch disease and, starting from last year we would have been better off without him.

If we're continuing to harp on Philadelphia, can we ask them if they were happy they signed Bob out of free agency? Can we ask the Isles if they're happy that they signed Lehner?

After the 4th I can live with the selection of a goalie, but it's almost like a dirty deed in my mind. Ugh fine, we'll take a goalie.

 

[NotProkofievian]

All those goalies suck though, save for Bobrovsky and Dubnyk, and both of those sucked at the time of being acquired.

All of those goalies are good enough.

If all you need is replacement level goaltending to win, why haven't we seen it ? The only one that fits the bill is Niemi.

Are we still pretending that Crawford is a premiere goaltender? Murray's getting exposed this year. Goaltenders are getting exposed all over the place with the smaller pads this year, actually.

 

[Mrb1p]

Carey Price is a dutch disease and, starting from last year we would have been better off without him.

If we're continuing to harp on Philadelphia, can we ask them if they were happy they signed Bob out of free agency? Can we ask the Isles if they're happy that they signed Lehner?

After the 4th I can live with the selection of a goalie, but it's almost like a dirty deed in my mind. Ugh fine, we'll take a goalie.

They signed Bob out of free agency and he was more of a number two, they wouldn't know much.
Wanna ask Buffalo if theyre happy they gave up a first (Colin White) for two years of Lehner ?

I understand your point, you're not wrong, goalies are worth less than your top line/top pair players, but you're out to lunch on that one, they don't grow on trees like you seem to think. If it was true, why are so many contenders held back by their goaltending situation ? Why didn't Philly just sign or give up a 2nd for a good goalie in the early 10's ? Why is Mike Effin Smith still strating 40+ games in CGY? Why is FLA stuck with Reimer and Lu? Why is Carolina unable to find good goaltending ? You can go on forever with that, in fact, you can find horror stories more often than success stories.

 

[Mrb1p]

All of those goalies are good enough.



Are we still pretending that Crawford is a premiere goaltender? Murray's getting exposed this year. Goaltenders are getting exposed all over the place with the smaller pads this year, actually.

All the goalies you mentionned are below average compared to the cup winners/most SC finalists.

Crawford IS adequate to win a cup, he's not elite, he's not Cam Talbot either.

 

[WeThreeKings]

It's not the smaller pads either, as historically, reduction of pads has made save percentage go up and we've seen bigger changes than this before.

Scoring is up because coaches are making their teams play with pace and no one is carrying dead weight on their lines anymore.

 

[Mrb1p]

It's not the smaller pads either, as historically, reduction of pads has made save percentage go up and we've seen bigger changes than this before.

Scoring is up because coaches are making their teams play with pace and no one is carrying dead weight on their lines anymore.

Lol except on the Habs where our two best wingers are stuck with a 3rd line C that cant complete a pass and our two best Cs are stuck with wingers that cant bury a chancr or complete a pass.

I think the chest piece is the biggest difference.

 

[NotProkofievian]

They signed Bob out of free agency and he was more of a number two, they wouldn't know much.
Wanna ask Buffalo if theyre happy they gave up a first (Colin White) for two years of Lehner ?

I understand your point, you're not wrong, goalies are worth less than your top line/top pair players, but you're out to lunch on that one, they don't grow on trees like you seem to think. If it was true, why are so many contenders held back by their goaltending situation ? Why didn't Philly just sign or give up a 2nd for a good goalie in the early 10's ? Why is Mike Effin Smith still strating 40+ games in CGY? Why is FLA stuck with Reimer and Lu? Why is Carolina unable to find good goaltending ? You can go on forever with that, in fact, you can find horror stories more often than success stories.

Why is any team bad at anything in particular? Because some teams haven't fixed their problems yet. Doesn't change the fact that goaltending is by far the best problem to have and cheapest to solve.

All the goalies you mentionned are below average compared to the cup winners/most SC finalists.

Crawford IS adequate to win a cup, he's not elite, he's not Cam Talbot either.

How do you know? Put Cam Talbot on the 2015 Hawks and see what happens.

 

[NotProkofievian]

It's not the smaller pads either, as historically, reduction of pads has made save percentage go up and we've seen bigger changes than this before.

Scoring is up because coaches are making their teams play with pace and no one is carrying dead weight on their lines anymore.

Your hunch is that scoring went up a half goal per game from one season to the next because of changes in coaching and personnel? Which ones.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Raphael Lavoie. Discuss. He looks like voldemort.

 

[Stive Morgan]

Brayden Tracey current sits at 27G, 37A - 64pts in 55 games.

Tracey is the WHL & CHL Rookie Scoring leader.

Egor Serdyuk (VIC) leads the QMJHL (53pts) & Marco Rossi (OTT) leads the OHL (57pts)

Hard to imagine this guy won't be wearing the Habs sweater in June. They'll definitely be targeting him with our 2nds.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Brayden Tracey current sits at 27G, 37A - 64pts in 55 games.

Tracey is the WHL & CHL Rookie Scoring leader.

Egor Serdyuk (VIC) leads the QMJHL (53pts) & Marco Rossi (OTT) leads the OHL (57pts)

Hard to imagine this guy won't be wearing the Habs sweater in June. They'll definitely be targeting him with our 2nds.

All hail Lord Stive, destroyer of Kassian shirts, knower of the WHL. Good find, breh.

 

[WeThreeKings]

Your hunch is that scoring went up a half goal per game from one season to the next because of changes in coaching and personnel? Which ones.

Look no further than our own team. A dinosaur in Julien being forced to change the style of play. Look around the league and tell me which ones are sitting back playing defensive hockey? Anaheim?

They've changed the size of pants, pads, thigh rises, blockers and gloves. And all that did was elevate save percentages. So this one minor change on the chesty accounts for it more than a drastic philosophical change around the NHL?

 

[Stive Morgan]

All hail Lord Stive, destroyer of Kassian shirts, knower of the WHL. Good find, breh.

You'll see me eating a Schlemko shirt if we draft him @The Great Weise

 

[NotProkofievian]

Look no further than our own team. A dinosaur in Julien being forced to change the style of play. Look around the league and tell me which ones are sitting back playing defensive hockey? Anaheim?

They've changed the size of pants, pads, thigh rises, blockers and gloves. And all that did was elevate save percentages. So this one minor change on the chesty accounts for it more than a drastic philosophical change around the NHL?

Yeah okay, Julien wasn't coaching every team in the league last year. Was Tampa a trap defense team last year? If not, why are they scoring more? Why is Kucherov scoring 30% more than he did last year? Why is McDavid scoring 10% more than he did last year? Because of Hitchcock's incredible innovations in coaching? Everyone is scoring more. Everyone is hitting career highs, whether they were in run and gun offenses the year prior or not. This is happening uniformly and thus should be the result of a uniform cause. A tide raising all ships. Also, penalties aren't up.

As a final point, if goaltenders perform better with smaller pads, which you seem to be suggesting, why didn't they do it of their own accord? I think the answer is pretty obvious: scoring was falling for a different reason than pad size decreasing.

 

[Vachon23]

6 pts night yesterday for Samuel Poulin

 

[NotProkofievian]

6 pts night yesterday for Samuel Poulin

Some good ones in there too, nice shot for his first goal, a couple nice direct passes.

 

[G0bias]

Légaré or Beaucage? Go

 

[NotProkofievian]

Légaré or Beaucage? Go

This is relevant to my interests.

 

[G0bias]

This is relevant to my interests.

I'm about to shift my attention to the Q but from the very little I've seen, Beaucage's shot arsenal is a thing of beauty.

 

[NotProkofievian]

I'm about to shift my attention to the Q but from the very little I've seen, Beaucage's shot arsenal is a thing of beauty.

Is Beaucage going to be the guy with the big shot and smooth release whose feet aren't stuck in mud? Could it be?

 

[Mrb1p]

6 pts night yesterday for Samuel Poulin

Sam Poulin is probably THE Q player that I want this year, aside from Cajkovic.

 

[NotProkofievian]

Sam Poulin is probably THE Q player that I want this year, aside from Cajkovic.

What about this Légaré guy?