Player Discussion Elias Pettersson, Pt. XII

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mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
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Since Pat Quinn? I've been following this team since 1991. I guess I've been following a team that's lacking in integrity, accountability and honesty most of my life.

That's some serious no-true-Scotsman gatekeeping there.
Aside from the last 7 years, the only season that I can see this team being truly dishonest about is the Messier season which is probably why f*** Messier is a thing.

m0uO8qr.png


My "universal generalization" is backed up by
  • 7 years of hard statistical evidence of salary cap incompetence
  • Organizational behavioral analysis of every single employee that has left this organization since Benning became "GM"
  • and the disgusting and retching feeling I feel every time I hear Jim Benning speak (and Trevor as well when he was here).
I don't think you're using this logical fallacy correctly

I could be wrong though.
 
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Diversification

Registered User
Jun 21, 2019
2,954
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Aside from the last 7 years, the only season that I can see this team being truly dishonest about is the Messier season which is probably why f*** Messier is a thing.

m0uO8qr.png


My "universal generalization" is backed up by
  • 7 years of hard statistical evidence of salary cap incompetence
  • Organizational behavioral analysis of every single employee that has left this organization since Benning became "GM"
  • and the disgusting and retching feeling I feel every time I hear Jim Benning speak.
I don't think you're using this logical fallacy correctly

I could be wrong though.

I don't think we're disagreeing that Benning should go. But what you've been saying in your recent posts is that is that there hasn't been a management group that reflects what the Vancouver Canucks' fans and roots are since Quinn. This can be interpreted as Quinn also didn't embody what it means to be a true Canuck (whatever that means) and we need to go all the way back to Jack Gordon and Harry Neale to meet your criteria. That's gatekeeping and fits the definition of a no-true-Scotsman fallacy.

FWIW, I hated how Quinn messed up the situation with Bure. So in terms of honesty, integrity, etc. all Canuck management has been a mixed bag as far as I'm concerned.
 
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mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,034
9,951
I don't think we're disagreeing that Benning should go. But what you've been saying in your recent posts is that is that there hasn't been a management group that reflects what the Vancouver Canucks' fans and roots are since Quinn. This can be interpreted as Quinn also didn't embody what it means to be a true Canuck (whatever that means) and we need to go all the way back to Jack Gordon and Harry Neale to meet your criteria. That's gatekeeping and fits the definition of a no-true-Scotsman fallacy.

FWIW, I hated how Quinn messed up the situation with Bure. So in terms of honesty, integrity, etc. all Canuck management has been a mixed bag as far as I'm concerned.

We're being gas lit, the players are getting gas lit and the salary cap is real.

The profession of General Manager is real and Canucks assets are real.

Or not and it's all just pretend fantasy hockey for rich people?
 

1440

Registered User
Feb 20, 2013
475
969
I don't want to get too far from the topic of this thread, but...

Ya know.. it's kinda sweet of you to identify with HFCanucks with 174 messages in total but unless you've argued with Y2K in the tank thread (and I don't recall you doing so) I just don't see it (I'm totally kidding here and being a dick).

So, for the sake of your emotional well being, I encourage you to use the ignore button to ignore me because and I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing which is analyze and interpret Canucks happenings from a business management and organizational behavior perspective along with everyone else here.

My low post-count in a decade of reading indicates that I am good at ignoring toxicity.

lol.... something like only 20% of vancouverites are on twitter. talk about niche representation.

it doesn't matter if it's an echo chamber here, if what's being echoed is correct. not to mention, other canucks' forums; also echo chambers. just with a lot of rose coloured stupidity. started on CDC, then reddit, then here. this place has the largest portion of pragmatic and astute canucks' analysis.

the projecting here is remarkable. disrespectful to speculate, aka discuss hockey on a hockey forum, but hey, "egotism is blinding everyone that disagrees with meeeee" yikes

get off it. we are here to speculate.

in my opinion, EP is pissed the team is run like shit, markstrom was sent packing, regressing the team

there. it's an opinion now.

can we discuss it now?

Good on you to reinforce my point about taking into account more diverse opinions on the Canucks. What percentage of Vancouverites are on HF Boards?

You misrepresent. Egotism was only applied to one poster who specifically demonstrated it.

To quote some forum rules on Rumours & Hearsay: "It's not acceptable to post that you heard someone has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source."
Speculating about off-ice relationships between players and management is disrespectful and shouldn't be done without a credible source.

Echo chambers can promote largely correct lines of reasoning and still stultify discourse. This is the case in our universities at the moment. If the goal is pragmatism, let us address contentious theories in a thorough and impartial manner before we reject them outright. Whether or not ownership is the main culprit for mismanagement is one example.

As for EP40, his perceived drop in play and lower point generation is likely just bad luck. His on-ice shooting percentages are high, but his personal shooting percentage is down, especially on the PP. He now also leads the league in posts+crossbars hit with 5, several of which beat the goalies cleanly, but are not registered as shots. His on ice-point share is also way down, which speaks to his lower shooting% and also how arbitrary the second assist versus third assist differentiation can be. This said, it seems incredibly misguided to speculate that his drop in play has anything to do with his relationships with teammates/management.
 

NuxFan09

Registered User
Jun 8, 2008
21,649
2,631
Merritt, BC
The destruction of the culture of integrity, accountability and honesty instilled in this franchise since Pat Quinn became GM.

Why do you ask?
Before I even attempt to unpack this, how does this relate to the Sedins supposedly looking visibly angry during their retirement ceremony? That's what I was asking about specifically.
 

mathonwy

Positively #toxic
Jan 21, 2008
19,034
9,951
Before I even attempt to unpack this, how does this relate to the Sedins supposedly looking visibly angry during their retirement ceremony? That's what I was asking about specifically.
Nah I’m good.

I think I’ve already been too much of a Debbie downer. We’re on a 3 game win streak and back at .500!!!

:banana and Mario dance gif:
 

I am toxic

. . . even in small doses
Oct 24, 2014
9,352
14,635
Vancouver
I don't want to get too far from the topic of this thread, but...



My low post-count in a decade of reading indicates that I am good at ignoring toxicity.





Good on you to reinforce my point about taking into account more diverse opinions on the Canucks. What percentage of Vancouverites are on HF Boards?

You misrepresent. Egotism was only applied to one poster who specifically demonstrated it.

To quote some forum rules on Rumours & Hearsay: "It's not acceptable to post that you heard someone has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source."
Speculating about off-ice relationships between players and management is disrespectful and shouldn't be done without a credible source.

Echo chambers can promote largely correct lines of reasoning and still stultify discourse. This is the case in our universities at the moment. If the goal is pragmatism, let us address contentious theories in a thorough and impartial manner before we reject them outright. Whether or not ownership is the main culprit for mismanagement is one example.

As for EP40, his perceived drop in play and lower point generation is likely just bad luck. His on-ice shooting percentages are high, but his personal shooting percentage is down, especially on the PP. He now also leads the league in posts+crossbars hit with 5, several of which beat the goalies cleanly, but are not registered as shots. His on ice-point share is also way down, which speaks to his lower shooting% and also how arbitrary the second assist versus third assist differentiation can be. This said, it seems incredibly misguided to speculate that his drop in play has anything to do with his relationships with teammates/management.

Quit braggin, they even gave you a little button to click on.
 

NuxFan09

Registered User
Jun 8, 2008
21,649
2,631
Merritt, BC
Nah I’m good.

I think I’ve already been too much of a Debbie downer. We’re on a 3 game win streak and back at .500!!!

:banana and Mario dance gif:
Fair enough. For whatever it's worth I was genuinely asking, not trying to be difficult or make it about you being negative. I was actually curious if there was something that happened at the ceremony that I completely missed.
 
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Windy River

Registered User
Jan 31, 2013
1,635
665
Fair enough. For whatever it's worth I was genuinely asking, not trying to be difficult or make it about you being negative. I was actually curious if there was something that happened at the ceremony that I completely missed.
Me too. What transpired during the retirement ceremony that makes one think they were royally pissed off??
 
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