Player Discussion Elias Pettersson, Pt. XII

[1440]

That looked to be case with the JT Miller acquisition and the Leivo trade and I was praying that this trend would continue and then they signed Tyler Myers for 6M over 5 years and then traded Tyler Madden for Tyler Toffoli and then let our top 2 defensive players go to Calgary and that was that.

There is no redemption for this front office.

None whatsoever.

I mean it's the Pettersson thread not the management thread so I'm taking his perspective - he watched 11.5 mil of garbage signed to term the year before, ostensibly to "compete now". A first and 3rd was traded last summer to "compete now." Then there was a significant buy at the deadline to "compete now". Every message to the players was we're all in on competing now.

Then they outperform expectations by every metric in the playoffs.

Instead of being rewarded with more talent to compete now, instead they get to watch in summer while the real contributors are forced to walk when their first choice was to stay and the team gets significantly worse. Then Petey gets to start the season with Virtanen on his line.

It's terrible optics for the players and would be incredibly frustrating to be a part of. What you call "finally getting it right", they would call getting mixed messages while the team gets worse and a "shocking reboot" after a consistent year of "all in" messaging. There's no reason for the players to assume that it's part of a smart, long term plan when it's one year off of short term all in.

You can't expect players to take a long view of things in general, but especially not when managements apparent goals switch season to season - and sometimes mid season. They were employees given an objective, they over-achieved, and as a result their employer... lost confidence in them. From their point of view.

And from a non-players perspective, Benning offered 5 years to Markstrom, spent all summer after 28 year old 5th biggest dman contract in the league declining OEL, has apparently been after Barrie for two years now, none of which looks like someone planning for the long term future. They spent all last offseason and last season sacrificing the future to compete immediately and trading futures to compete immediately, only to now look like they're building for several years down the road. I'll take it, because it's what should have been happening for the last several years, but I'm not going to hold my breath that it continues. Benning will probably trade futures to compete this season too, which will complete the cycle of stupidity and mixed messages.

I'm not saying this management is doing things anywhere close to optimally, just that not re-signing Tanev and Markstrom are the correct moves and that people shouldn't now be losing their lunch because Markstrom got a shutout against us. Reactionary feces like that is what causes management to have a perpetual win-now mentality, which is the root of all our problems.
It may seem counter-intuitive, but signing a gm for long-term (even a not very good one) is a step in the right direction because it demonstrates a longer-term oriented mindset. This is the same sort of issue our 4 year electoral cycle has.

As for Pettersson's perspective, well, Covid changes a lot and that is a reasonable explanation to anyone as to why spending is now not being done at the same rate.

 

[mathonwy]

I'm not saying this management is doing things anywhere close to optimally, just that not re-signing Tanev and Markstrom are the correct moves and that people shouldn't now be losing their lunch because Markstrom got a shutout against us. Reactionary feces like that is what causes management to have a perpetual win-now mentality, which is the root of all our problems.
It may seem counter-intuitive, but signing a gm for long-term (even a not very good one) is a step in the right direction because it demonstrates a longer-term oriented mindset. This is the same sort of issue our 4 year electoral cycle has.

As for Pettersson's perspective, well, Covid changes a lot and that is a reasonable explanation to anyone as to why spending is now not being done at the same rate.

7 years of incompetence is what is causing people to "lose their lunch".

Not because Marky got a SO against us.

I couldn't give a rats ass if Marky got a SO against us. This is not about Tanev or Markstrom specifically.

This is about EP40 and QH43 and the long term success of the Canucks franchise.

You should hang out more and try to understand exactly why HFCanucks has been anti-Benning since day 1. Our stance hasn't changed. It's evolved a lot and this cap problem was forecasted by this board a long time ago and now it's occurred and here we are paying Myers 6M for the next 4 years for being a 3rd pairing d-man and Eriksson 6M for practicing on a taxi squad.

Trying to argue a solitary point of not-resigning T&M without taking into consideration the cap hell these morons put us into is... well... pointless.

They either overspent on purpose or by accident.

And there's a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to "on purpose" because if they really wanted to keep one of Tanev, Toffoli, Stecher, Markstrom, Leivo... the guys that are actually worth their contract... they could easily do so by juggling and buying out trash contracts as well as not paying Tyler Myers 6M over 5Y to deliver 3rd pairing services.

But they didn't because... they are so smrt and they love age gappers so much they got another age gapper in Travis Hamonic who is on his 3rd team. Whoop-de-f***ing-do.

So much wow I tell ya.

 

[mriswith]

I'm not saying this management is doing things anywhere close to optimally, just that not re-signing Tanev and Markstrom are the correct moves and that people shouldn't now be losing their lunch because Markstrom got a shutout against us. Reactionary feces like that is what causes management to have a perpetual win-now mentality, which is the root of all our problems.
It may seem counter-intuitive, but signing a gm for long-term (even a not very good one) is a step in the right direction because it demonstrates a longer-term oriented mindset. This is the same sort of issue our 4 year electoral cycle has.

As for Pettersson's perspective, well, Covid changes a lot and that is a reasonable explanation to anyone as to why spending is now not being done at the same rate.

I mean, I've said all along I'm fine with them walking given that I see the roster as being beyond redemption for a few years until more of Bennings UFA horrors are off the roster, but I also get why the players are demoralized and why it wouldn't look anything like long term planning from their perspective. It doesn't look like long term planning to me either when they still offered Markstrom 5 years and went hard after OEL which is an inexplicable move if you're building for a few years out.

I agree with you that the perpetual win-now mentality is the root of all our problems though. I'd undo all the UFA contracts and trades for his entire tenure where a pick or younger player was traded for an older one if I could.

 

[1440]

7 years of incompetence is what is causing people to "lose their lunch".

Not because Marky got a SO against us.

I couldn't give a rats ass if Marky got a SO against us. This is not about Tanev or Markstrom specifically.

This is about EP40 and QH43 and the long term success of the Canucks franchise.

You should hang out more and try to understand exactly why HFCanucks has been anti-Benning since day 1. Our stance hasn't changed. It's evolved a lot and this cap problem was forecasted by this board a long time ago and now it's occurred and here we are paying Myers 6M for the next 4 years for being a 3rd pairing d-man and Eriksson 6M for practicing on a taxi squad.

Trying to argue a solitary point of not-resigning T&M without taking into consideration the cap hell these morons put us into is... well... pointless.

They either overspent on purpose or by accident.

And there's a lot of circumstantial evidence pointing to "on purpose" because if they really wanted to keep one of Tanev, Toffoli, Stecher, Markstrom, Leivo... the guys that are actually worth their contract... they could easily do so by juggling and buying out trash contracts as well as not paying Tyler Myers 6M over 5Y to deliver 3rd pairing services.

But they didn't because... they are so smrt and they love age gappers so much they got another age gapper in Travis Hamonic who is on his 3rd team. Whoop-de-f***ing-do.

So much wow I tell ya.

A lot of wow, yeah.

Wow to pretend you somehow understand the fans in general. Go on Twitter or the Canucks forums, or walk down Dunsmuir after the game and see how reactionary people are. HF boards is an echo-chamber community filled with elitist hockey nerds (like myself) and is not at all representational of the average fan.
Wow for you to pretend that you speak for HFCanucks and its viewpoints. "Our stance" as though you are arbiter of what people here think.

You have to take management decisions at face value otherwise you end up in an steep-walled pit of circular-reasoning of the type: "well they only made this one particular move because they made 7 bad moves in 2014 and their hands were forced, so we can't credit them this move". The reality is that as fans we just don't know the whole story well enough to make anything more than shallow assumptions about the puppeteers tugging the strings of this franchise. For the record, I think it is Aquilini to blame, not Benning.

To return to the topic at hand and to my initial points: Pettersson is in a position of different knowledge about what the team is doing. It is disrespectful to speculate about what he may think about his teammates or his bosses (management).

So yeah, wow. You have done about half the job correctly in that you are thinking critically about the topics at hand, and for that I commend you, but you are too blinded by your egotism to grasp what is actually going on.

 

[TruKnyte]

A lot of wow, yeah.

Wow to pretend you somehow understand the fans in general. Go on Twitter or the Canucks forums, or walk down Dunsmuir after the game and see how reactionary people are. HF boards is an echo-chamber community filled with elitist hockey nerds (like myself) and is not at all representational of the average fan.
Wow for you to pretend that you speak for HFCanucks and its viewpoints. "Our stance" as though you are arbiter of what people here think.

You have to take management decisions at face value otherwise you end up in an steep-walled pit of circular-reasoning of the type: "well they only made this one particular move because they made 7 bad moves in 2014 and their hands were forced, so we can't credit them this move". The reality is that as fans we just don't know the whole story well enough to make anything more than shallow assumptions about the puppeteers tugging the strings of this franchise. For the record, I think it is Aquilini to blame, not Benning.

To return to the topic at hand and to my initial points: Pettersson is in a position of different knowledge about what the team is doing. It is disrespectful to speculate about what he may think about his teammates or his bosses (management).

So yeah, wow. You have done about half the job correctly in that you are thinking critically about the topics at hand, and for that I commend you, but you are too blinded by your egotism to grasp what is actually going on.

To be fair, we're on a fan board. All we do is speculate on here. Unless Pettersson is lurking and has an account that he likes to secretly post from.

 

[1440]

To be fair, we're on a fan board. All we do is speculate on here. Unless Pettersson is lurking and has an account that he likes to secretly post from.

About the on-ice stuff, sure. But posting unfounded rumors about players' personal lives is against the forum rules.

 

[mathonwy]

A lot of wow, yeah.

Wow to pretend you somehow understand the fans in general. Go on Twitter or the Canucks forums, or walk down Dunsmuir after the game and see how reactionary people are. HF boards is an echo-chamber community filled with elitist hockey nerds (like myself) and is not at all representational of the average fan.
Wow for you to pretend that you speak for HFCanucks and its viewpoints. "Our stance" as though you are arbiter of what people here think.

You have to take management decisions at face value otherwise you end up in an steep-walled pit of circular-reasoning of the type: "well they only made this one particular move because they made 7 bad moves in 2014 and their hands were forced, so we can't credit them this move". The reality is that as fans we just don't know the whole story well enough to make anything more than shallow assumptions about the puppeteers tugging the strings of this franchise. For the record, I think it is Aquilini to blame, not Benning.

To return to the topic at hand and to my initial points: Pettersson is in a position of different knowledge about what the team is doing. It is disrespectful to speculate about what he may think about his teammates or his bosses (management).

So yeah, wow. You have done about half the job correctly in that you are thinking critically about the topics at hand, and for that I commend you, but you are too blinded by your egotism to grasp what is actually going on.

Ya know.. it's kinda sweet of you to identify with HFCanucks with 174 messages in total but unless you've argued with Y2K in the tank thread (and I don't recall you doing so) I just don't see it (I'm totally kidding here and being a dick).

So.. you're saying it's disrespectful of me to speculate on potential meanings of Petey looking like garbage this season along his agent move?

Do you find me toxic?

I find me toxic.

Do I like being toxic?

Not really.

I want to be able to talk about the Canucks seriously again.

I want to see player development.

I want a non-garbage bottom 6.

I want integrity and honesty.

I don't want to hear mumbling.

And I haven't been able to do any of that in 7 years.

So, for the sake of your emotional well being, I encourage you to use the ignore button to ignore me because and I'm going to keep on doing what I'm doing which is analyze and interpret Canucks happenings from a business management and organizational behavior perspective along with everyone else here.

 

[vanuck]

The second-hand info I got was that he's pretty pissed with how the team kept lowballing Markström, with whom he is close, and is pretty much demonstrating that he's not going to yield to them. Could have a lot to do with his headspace now too, who knows.

Incompetent leadership and management has spillover effects elsewhere on the team? Who could've known?

 

[Gaunce4gm]

On another note, Petey is now 1 point back of Nico Hischier for the lead in 2017 Draft scoring.

Hischier has put up 51G 84A for 135 pts in 209 gp
Pettersson has put up 56G and 78A for 134 pts in 147 gp

Also worth noting 2019 draft prospect Nils Höglander is currently 5th in scoring among 2019 draftees, and we can expect him to move into 4th shortly, when he overtakes D Ville Heinola (WPG) as he currently sits 1 point back.

 

[Fedz]

Anyone else think Pettersson's 'slump' has anything to do with him staying in Vancouver over the break? I'm willing to bet he's never spent this much time away from home, family, friends, etc.

It's not entirely outrageous to think a *just turned* 22 year old kid might be a little homesick and that it may be affecting his performance at work?

Confidence is key too, nice to see some of that come back into his game tonight. He will be fine, just get his parents on a private jet out here ASAP!

 

[PuckMunchkin]

I'm not saying this management is doing things anywhere close to optimally, just that not re-signing Tanev and Markstrom are the correct moves and that people shouldn't now be losing their lunch because Markstrom got a shutout against us. Reactionary feces like that is what causes management to have a perpetual win-now mentality, which is the root of all our problems.
It may seem counter-intuitive, but signing a gm for long-term (even a not very good one) is a step in the right direction because it demonstrates a longer-term oriented mindset. This is the same sort of issue our 4 year electoral cycle has.

As for Pettersson's perspective, well, Covid changes a lot and that is a reasonable explanation to anyone as to why spending is now not being done at the same rate.

Its the consistent leaking of assets.

Last season + offseason alone:
Tyler Madden
2020 2nd round pick
Chris Tanev
Jacob Markström
Troy Stetcher

When you refuse to rebuild, you end up being in a perpetual rebuild.

Its year 7 of Jim Bennings tenure and we are talking about tanking, hoping EP & QH have bad years so we can get discounts on their contracts.

 

[Zombotron]

Elias, my boy.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

A lot of wow, yeah.

Wow to pretend you somehow understand the fans in general. Go on Twitter or the Canucks forums, or walk down Dunsmuir after the game and see how reactionary people are. HF boards is an echo-chamber community filled with elitist hockey nerds (like myself) and is not at all representational of the average fan.
Wow for you to pretend that you speak for HFCanucks and its viewpoints. "Our stance" as though you are arbiter of what people here think.

You have to take management decisions at face value otherwise you end up in an steep-walled pit of circular-reasoning of the type: "well they only made this one particular move because they made 7 bad moves in 2014 and their hands were forced, so we can't credit them this move". The reality is that as fans we just don't know the whole story well enough to make anything more than shallow assumptions about the puppeteers tugging the strings of this franchise. For the record, I think it is Aquilini to blame, not Benning.

To return to the topic at hand and to my initial points: Pettersson is in a position of different knowledge about what the team is doing. It is disrespectful to speculate about what he may think about his teammates or his bosses (management).

So yeah, wow. You have done about half the job correctly in that you are thinking critically about the topics at hand, and for that I commend you, but you are too blinded by your egotism to grasp what is actually going on.

lol.... something like only 20% of vancouverites are on twitter. talk about niche representation.

it doesn't matter if it's an echo chamber here, if what's being echoed is correct. not to mention, other canucks' forums; also echo chambers. just with a lot of rose coloured stupidity. started on CDC, then reddit, then here. this place has the largest portion of pragmatic and astute canucks' analysis.

the projecting here is remarkable. disrespectful to speculate, aka discuss hockey on a hockey forum, but hey, "egotism is blinding everyone that disagrees with meeeee" yikes

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

About the on-ice stuff, sure. But posting unfounded rumors about players' personal lives is against the forum rules.

get off it. we are here to speculate.

in my opinion, EP is pissed the team is run like shit, markstrom was sent packing, regressing the team

there. it's an opinion now.

can we discuss it now?

 

[canuckking1]

get off it. we are here to speculate.

in my opinion, EP is pissed the team is run like shit, markstrom was sent packing, regressing the team

there. it's an opinion now.

can we discuss it now?

So EP is gonna cost himself millions and throw Horvat under the bus who’s been playing his heart out by playing like shit? That’s one of the worst takes I’ve seen on this website.

 

[mathonwy]

So EP is gonna cost himself millions and throw Horvat under the bus who’s been playing his heart out by playing like shit? That’s one of the worst takes I’ve seen on this website.

EP is looking out for numero uno.

Heart don't mean jack shit on this team.

If it did, T&M would still be Canucks.

If it did, the Sedins wouldn't be so transparently pissed off during their retirement ceremony.

If it did, there wouldn't be a class of players that are worth their contract and a class of players that aren't.

Expand your awareness here and I'm trying to be as nice as I can (considering the medium we're in).

There is a much bigger problem here.

 

[canuckking1]

EP is looking out for numero uno.

Heart don't mean jack shit on this team.

If it did, T&M would still be Canucks.

If it did, the Sedins wouldn't be so transparently pissed off during their retirement ceremony.

If it did, there wouldn't be a class of players that are worth their contract and a class of players that aren't.

Expand your awareness here and I'm trying to be as nice as I can (considering the medium we're in).

There is a much bigger problem here.

If EP is looking out for himself he’d be playing his best hockey to set himself up to get PAID.

 

[mathonwy]

I hope Petey isn't going to follow PLD's example...

I will be very unhappy if that occurs.

 

[Catamarca Livin]

Three wins team in playoff spot. No need to jump off a bridge.

 

[Frankie Blueberries]

Three wins team in playoff spot. No need to jump off a bridge.

Weird, I thought this was the Pettersson thread. I wouldn't judge this team based on their ability to beat Ottawa 3 times, but to each their own.

 

[lennor]

I hope Petey isn't going to follow PLD's example...

I will be very unhappy if that occurs.

He’s Swedish. Nothing to worry about.

 

[CherryToke]

Prediction: Quinn Hughes leads team in scoring. Wishful thinking: Canucks get Pettersson on a better long-term deal as a result

Your prediction is starting to not look crazy

 

[NuxFan09]

EP is looking out for numero uno.

Heart don't mean jack shit on this team.

If it did, T&M would still be Canucks.

If it did, the Sedins wouldn't be so transparently pissed off during their retirement ceremony.

If it did, there wouldn't be a class of players that are worth their contract and a class of players that aren't.

Expand your awareness here and I'm trying to be as nice as I can (considering the medium we're in).

There is a much bigger problem here.

What are you talking about?

 

[mathonwy]

What are you talking about?

The destruction of the culture of integrity, accountability and honesty instilled in this franchise since Pat Quinn became GM.

Why do you ask?

 

[Diversification]

The destruction of the culture of integrity, accountability and honesty instilled in this franchise since Pat Quinn became GM.

Why do you ask?

Since Pat Quinn? I've been following this team since 1991. I guess I've been following a team that's lacking in integrity, accountability and honesty most of my life.

That's some serious no-true-Scotsman gatekeeping there.